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Author Topic: WHATS HAPPENING TO THE MEADOWLANDS?????  (Read 5139 times)
SUPERMAN
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« on: December 07, 2005, 09:03:19 AM »

      If you were in trouble at another track in the past the last place to let you drive, train or race was The Meadowlands. I see they have a lack of pre-race testing or RUCKER would have "NEVER" been the leading trainer, They let Pantaleano not only train but drive after getting tossed out of Northfield for race fixing and now even let Larry Stalbaum in to drive horses. If their ever was a track "NOT" to reward crimminals it should be the BIG-M. Do you think that Ruck might have used the same drugs that he just got a positive here for out there??? Com'on if they passed the box here for that long they sure passed that lax testing in NJ. All in all the BIG-M has lost tons of respect from the gamblers I know who thought this was the cleanest and most honest harness racing in the world. But like *** keeps telling all of us is that its a DEAD GAME LADDIES!!!!!

Im starting to think hes right. Wink
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icare
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« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2005, 09:33:05 AM »

You Know He Used The Same Drug.
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baron
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« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2005, 10:09:22 AM »

I thought since Meadowlands is a  state owned facility, they do not have the right to refuse any driver or trainer..Unlike a private track that can pick and choose who they want..


      If you were in trouble at another track in the past the last place to let you drive, train or race was The Meadowlands. I see they have a lack of pre-race testing or RUCKER would have "NEVER" been the leading trainer, They let Pantaleano not only train but drive after getting tossed out of Northfield for race fixing and now even let Larry Stalbaum in to drive horses. If their ever was a track "NOT" to reward crimminals it should be the BIG-M. Do you think that Ruck might have used the same drugs that he just got a positive here for out there??? Com'on if they passed the box here for that long they sure passed that lax testing in NJ. All in all the BIG-M has lost tons of respect from the gamblers I know who thought this was the cleanest and most honest harness racing in the world. But like *** keeps telling all of us is that its a DEAD GAME LADDIES!!!!!

Im starting to think hes right. Wink
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VitoTheCapper
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« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2005, 10:36:45 AM »

Here is the answer.George Hadges sued the Meadowlands.Settled out of court for a undislosed amount of money.They settled for over 7 figures thats atleast 1mil.George may not have been a good driver.but ill tell you something he Was a good gambler.We used to bury the Conn OTB when they had seperate pools from Yonkers..

R.I.P George Hadges & William Kunstler

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=2nd&navby=case&no=947444

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VitoTheCapper
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« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2005, 10:43:15 AM »

Vito, excellent link.  I wish you could have put this post up months ago as a possible parallel to the Dakuras case.  I can't believe your "boy" retained Kuntzler - a giant in the annals of juris prudence.  I have a question.  You said at the time you lived in Westchester Co., but you frequented the Conn OTB.  Was this a proximity thing or that you could crash the seperate pools in CT vs. live at YR or at a NYC/OTB ?  Let us know.  TC
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VitoTheCapper
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« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2005, 10:54:32 AM »

Westchester County Borders with Conn...It was a 40 min drive to the nearest Conn OtB where they had thier own pools..

I remember carrying them big ass motorola cell phones and beepers.you remember the cell phone calls cost $1.95 a minute at the time.We would put someone in the OTB in Conn and hedge wagers that were bet with bookmakers.

Nothing but profit.

It was';t long before we got thrown out of the OTB in Conn.

Patrons called the Feds and a major investigation begain.

We were long gone before any FEDS came down on us.

Bottom line is we did nothing wrong.

William loved to take the case..If you knew William he loved to fight for the Civil Rights of the little guy.
 
P.S like i stated before george was my first trainer in the biz....

He just past away

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VitoTheCapper
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« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2005, 11:02:17 AM »

The pay phones at the track said no dissemination of racing info was allowed back in the day.  This horse racing "edge" stuff traces back to when Tony and Lefty would bash the barber shop book by setting his clock back a few minutes and had a stringer sitting on a phone pole across from Gulfstream Park with binoculars.  They'd past post for BIG scores on that deal.  Ah, the good old days indeed.  TC
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VitoTheCapper
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« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2005, 11:14:11 AM »

I had this Old Time BM....who would only take small bets from me...Well it was New Years Eve and the Meadowlands post was a hour earlier.Well dont you know till this day he didn't know i past posted him.Poor guy in his white fedora and macanudo in mouth went to the grave not knowing.

By the way the DD paid $222.00

Of cause i had to throw away a few bucks by betting a couple of other doubles that didn't win ..that way i didn't put up the red flag...lmao
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VitoTheCapper
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« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2005, 01:12:20 PM »

      If you were in trouble at another track in the past the last place to let you drive, train or race was The Meadowlands. I see they have a lack of pre-race testing or RUCKER would have "NEVER" been the leading trainer, They let Pantaleano not only train but drive after getting tossed out of Northfield for race fixing and now even let Larry Stalbaum in to drive horses. If their ever was a track "NOT" to reward crimminals it should be the BIG-M. Do you think that Ruck might have used the same drugs that he just got a positive here for out there??? Com'on if they passed the box here for that long they sure passed that lax testing in NJ. All in all the BIG-M has lost tons of respect from the gamblers I know who thought this was the cleanest and most honest harness racing in the world. But like *** keeps telling all of us is that its a DEAD GAME LADDIES!!!!!

Im starting to think hes right. Wink

If they let Rucker race at the Big M. while under a 6 month suspension in Illinois then I also lost ALL RESPECT for the Meadowlands. A positive in this business is a positive no matter where you're at. It's all related to harness racing. I believe the Big M. should get flooded with phone calls and e-mails if they allow this cheater to race at the #1 track in the country.

Yours Truly
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ruckerfan
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« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2005, 01:23:58 PM »

u r a ***hole *** u no nothing bout what has happened to rucker when u find out whats going on u need to apolagise to him in writeing cause u will feel very stupid!!!  and by the way u wrote in a nother message that matty works in nj! haha thats how much u know he hasnt been there 4 atleast 2 years and he worked for oods on when he was!!! dickhead!
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keep the fight up ken it ant over i hope u useing the rope a dope im getting worried!!!
Dan Nance
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« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2005, 01:45:38 PM »

u r a ***hole *** u no nothing bout what has happened to rucker when u find out whats going on u need to apolagise to him in writeing cause u will feel very stupid!!!  and by the way u wrote in a nother message that matty works in nj! haha thats how much u know he hasnt been there 4 atleast 2 years and he worked for oods on when he was!!! dickhead!

Ruckerfan who can't write or spell and needs to go back to school.

    All I know is that it's up on the board at Balmoral that Rucker was given a 6 month suspension just like I reported days before it was made public. And, I don't care where Matty works. The info I recieved was told to me from a person who said Matty told him about the 6 month suspension. I don't care who told who what, all I know is that the info was right on target and Rucker was given 6 months.

   I found out what was going on and so did everyone else when they put it up on the board at Balmoral last night. I'm not going to apologize to anyone. What Rucker needs to do is apologize to the bettors for ripping them off at the windows because he was juicing horses and betting his ass off on them.

   Now, go back to school and learn to write and spell and then go back to work for Rucker.

Yours Truly
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njhorseman
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« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2005, 01:48:45 PM »

If they let Rucker race at the Big M. while under a 6 month suspension in Illinois then I also lost ALL RESPECT for the Meadowlands. A positive in this business is a positive no matter where you're at. It's all related to harness racing. I believe the Big M. should get flooded with phone calls and e-mails if they allow this cheater to race at the #1 track in the country.  

Dan:
Once official notice of Rucker's suspension reaches the NJRC, he will not be allowed to race here. Of course, if he gets a TRO or injunction, he will be allowed to race.

Of course, even without a TRO, Rucker's horses will race under the name of a "beard," although they may be required to race from the detention barn.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2005, 01:56:59 PM »

Vito, excellent link.  I wish you could have put this post up months ago as a possible parallel to the Dakuras case.  I can't believe your "boy" retained Kuntzler - a giant in the annals of juris prudence.  I have a question.  You said at the time you lived in Westchester Co., but you frequented the Conn OTB.  Was this a proximity thing or that you could crash the seperate pools in CT vs. live at YR or at a NYC/OTB ?  Let us know.  TC

TC:
In case someone doesn't bother to actually read the ruling I think it's important to note that the court only overturned the sanctions against Hadges and Kunstler, NOT Hadges being ruled off the grounds by Yonkers. So, the outcome was similar to Joe's case.

Kunstler was well known for taking such cases. One of my former trainers also engaged his services in a battle with the NJRC. Reading between the lines of the court's ruling, I'll guess that Kunstler was working pro bono. It sounds like Hadges was preparing the case himself, with Kunstler signing the papers and arguing the case.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2005, 02:07:02 PM »

I thought since Meadowlands is a  state owned facility, they do not have the right to refuse any driver or trainer..Unlike a private track that can pick and choose who they want..



Baron:
You are correct.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2005, 02:09:32 PM »

Dan:
Once official notice of Rucker's suspension reaches the NJRC, he will not be allowed to race here. Of course, if he gets a TRO or injunction, he will be allowed to race.

Of course, even without a TRO, Rucker's horses will race under the name of a "beard," although they may be required to race from the detention barn.

Paul
          I recieved an e-mail from that Chris guy at the Big M. and it said that the positives that Rucker recieved in Chicago MIGHT not stand up in NJ because they are class 4 under their rules. So, that's telling me that the Meadowlands MAY allow him to race and not honor a 6 month suspension in Illinois. If they allow a suspended trainer to race then I HAVE LOST ALL RESPECT FOR THE #1 HARNESS TRACK IN THE COUNTRY. They should get flooded with phone calls and e-mails from the fan's who have to bet on a suspended trainer.

Yours Truly
 
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2005, 02:16:51 PM »

I thought since Meadowlands is a  state owned facility, they do not have the right to refuse any driver or trainer..Unlike a private track that can pick and choose who they want..



Hey baron
 
           State owned or not they uphold suspensions and rule violations from other states. Ruckers suspension has nothing to do with the owners of the tracks not allowing him to race. This is a IRB rule violation ordeal and has nothing to do with the tracks or track owners. That track owners in Chicago can't say " F**k YOU IRB WE ARE LETTING RUCKER RACE AT OUR TRACK ".

Yours Truly
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2005, 02:17:31 PM »

Paul
          I recieved an e-mail from that Chris guy at the Big M. and it said that the positives that Rucker recieved in Chicago MIGHT not stand up in NJ because they are class 4 under their rules. So, that's telling me that the Meadowlands MAY allow him to race and not honor a 6 month suspension in Illinois. If they allow a suspended trainer to race then I HAVE LOST ALL RESPECT FOR THE #1 HARNESS TRACK IN THE COUNTRY. They should get flooded with phone calls and e-mails from the fan's who have to bet on a suspended trainer.

Yours Truly
 

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njhorseman
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« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2005, 02:23:34 PM »

Paul
          I recieved an e-mail from that Chris guy at the Big M. and it said that the positives that Rucker recieved in Chicago MIGHT not stand up in NJ because they are class 4 under their rules. So, that's telling me that the Meadowlands MAY allow him to race and not honor a 6 month suspension in Illinois. If they allow a suspended trainer to race then I HAVE LOST ALL RESPECT FOR THE #1 HARNESS TRACK IN THE COUNTRY. They should get flooded with phone calls and e-mails from the fan's who have to bet on a suspended trainer.  


Dan:
If what you're saying is true, don't blame the Meadowlands, blame the NJRC. The commission decides whether the suspension is valid or not. If the commission says Rucker's violation in Illinois is not a violation of NJ rules, then the Big M, as a state owned track, has no choice but to let him race.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2005, 02:48:08 PM by njhorseman » Report to moderator   Logged
Richard Breth
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« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2005, 02:29:09 PM »

Dan:
If what you're saying is true, don't blame the Meadowlands, blame the NJRC. The commission decides whether the suspension is valid or not. If the commission says Rucker's violation in Illinois is not a violation of NJ rules, the then the Big M, as a state owned track, has no choice but to let him race.

What normally happens with Class 4 violations in New Jersey?
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njhorseman
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« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2005, 02:47:36 PM »

What normally happens with Class 4 violations in New Jersey?

Because New Jersey, in it's infinite wisdom, does not provide you with a free copy of its rules, I can't say with certainty. I believe it might be a fine for a first violation, but I also thought they could suspend you for subsequent violations, at least for some substances.

What is the exact drug that caused the positives? I keep  hearing rumors, but no one's stated with certainty what caused the DQ.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2005, 02:56:25 PM »

Westchester County Borders with Conn...It was a 40 min drive to the nearest Conn OtB where they had thier own pools..

I remember carrying them big ass motorola cell phones and beepers.you remember the cell phone calls cost $1.95 a minute at the time.We would put someone in the OTB in Conn and hedge wagers that were bet with bookmakers.

Nothing but profit.

It was';t long before we got thrown out of the OTB in Conn.

Patrons called the Feds and a major investigation begain.

We were long gone before any FEDS came down on us.

Bottom line is we did nothing wrong.




No, Vito, you did something wrong. Last I checked, it was and still is illegal to bet with a bookie.
 You just didn't get caught. Grin
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poconomike
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« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2005, 03:00:53 PM »

Paul:

You are not breaking the law by placing a bet (at least not in NY/NJ/Pa/Conn) with a bookie. The law is broken by the person (bookie) who takes the bet. This has held up in the courts many times. The bettor is not committing a crime
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Richard Breth
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« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2005, 03:08:22 PM »

What is the exact drug that caused the positives? I keep  hearing rumors, but no one's stated with certainty what caused the DQ.

Dont know either. Maybe one of the many people who say they saw the ruling on the Wall of Shame last night will tell us if it said there.

Starting to think this might be two 30 day suspensions for the two prior positives for the indomithacyn (?). Hard to tell all I know is what I read here.

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njhorseman
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« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2005, 03:17:48 PM »

Paul:

You are not breaking the law by placing a bet (at least not in NY/NJ/Pa/Conn) with a bookie. The law is broken by the person (bookie) who takes the bet. This has held up in the courts many times. The bettor is not committing a crime

Mike:
You're right in that the bettor is not subject to prosecution. However, you are still participating in an illegal activity (Remember the big stink when A Rod got caught in a raid at an illegal poker game a couple of weeks ago?).

Of course, since Vito "did nothing wrong" I'd be curious to know why he high-tailed it out the OTB. I think I recalll him saying that he was, at one time, convicted of something. If so, placing bets with a book could have been a violation of the terms of his sentence (If he was on probation). In that case, he could have faced jail time for using a book. Perhaps he could fill us in.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2005, 03:20:15 PM »

Dont know either. Maybe one of the many people who say they saw the ruling on the Wall of Shame last night will tell us if it said there.

Starting to think this might be two 30 day suspensions for the two prior positives for the indomithacyn (?). Hard to tell all I know is what I read here.



He got fines for the two Indomethacin positives. These are separate violations. Besides two 30 day suspensions add up to 60 days, not 6 months.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2005, 03:24:10 PM »

Please!!! Somebody notify the Big M. that I'm planning on hooking up with some Chicago trainer who is willing to use Ruckers gout medication to take down some " Big Scores ".

    Tell the Big M. that when this trainer gets suspended in Chicago for using gout medication they will be taking their stock to Jersey to race where they don't honor rulings handed down in Chicago for gout medication. Just like Rucker is now doing.
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poconomike
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« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2005, 03:28:46 PM »

Paul:

You said:

"No, Vito, you did something wrong. Last I checked, it was and still is illegal to bet with a bookie.
 You just didn't get caught"

All I am saying is that you were not correct, it isnt illegal to bet with a bookie
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njhorseman
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« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2005, 03:29:45 PM »

Paul:

You said:

"No, Vito, you did something wrong. Last I checked, it was and still is illegal to bet with a bookie.
 You just didn't get caught"

All I am saying is that you were not correct, it isnt illegal to bet with a bookie

OK...I agree...based on state law. If you place a bet over the telephone or through some other electronic medium such as the internet you are in violation of federal law as far as I know.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2005, 03:32:37 PM by njhorseman » Report to moderator   Logged
Richard Breth
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« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2005, 03:34:48 PM »

He got fines for the two Indomethacin positives. These are separate violations. Besides two 30 day suspensions add up to 60 days, not 6 months.

You say 60 days not = six months? Time for me to go back to school.
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poconomike
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« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2005, 03:36:09 PM »

Is it official that NJRC will not honor the suspension?
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2005, 03:37:54 PM »

You say 60 days not = six months? Time for me to go back to school.

Look it's on the board he got 6 months not 60 days.

 Richard, just so you know the gout medication lowers the PH so they can use as much baking soda as they wish. That's what was told to me.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2005, 03:39:33 PM »

Is it official that NJRC will not honor the suspension?

According to Dan, Chris McErlean said they "might not" honor it. Doesn't sound official yet to me.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2005, 03:43:08 PM »

According to Dan, Chris McErlean said they "might not" honor it. Doesn't sound official yet to me.

The way I read the e-mail it sounded to me like the positives and the scratched horses in Chicago will not matter there. He said they didn't get any ruling yet on the 6 month suspension. If I knew how to post the e-mail on the forum I would post it but I don't know how to do that.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2005, 03:44:45 PM »

The way I read the e-mail it sounded to me like the positives and the scratched horses in Chicago will not matter there. He said they didn't get any ruling yet on the 6 month suspension. If I knew how to post the e-mail on the forum I would post it but I don't know how to do that.

If they didn't get the ruling, then their decision can't be official.
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VitoTheCapper
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« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2005, 03:45:10 PM »



The law gets fishy when it comes down to whether or not it is illegal to bet with bookmakers.
I was indicted for tampering with the outcome of a horse race,(sports tampering).promoting gambling, 225.25,and possesion of gambling records.And was charged with RICCO
I was found not guiltyOf any of the gambling charges..But was guilty by association. I plead to a tax charge I paid a hefty fine  i did not try to fight back for the money  under a plea deal. .I lost 2 vehicles and a substancial amount of money.I beat the Ricco charge and still lost my possesions

3 years later i was found guilty numerous times on gambling charges.I paid my debt to society and now im just a gambler.
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« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2005, 03:57:18 PM »

The way I read the e-mail it sounded to me like the positives and the scratched horses in Chicago will not matter there. He said they didn't get any ruling yet on the 6 month suspension. If I knew how to post the e-mail on the forum I would post it but I don't know how to do that.

Dan:
It almost sounds like he's talking about the two previous Indomethacin positives, not the latest ruling.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2005, 04:02:34 PM »

Dan:
It almost sounds like he's talking about the two previous Indomethacin positives, not the latest ruling.

The ruling was posted last night so that means if they are going to enforce it then his horses would have been scratched tonight. I asked because I need to handicap the card and don't know if Rucker is racing or not. They should think about bettors for once who support the sport. He was talking about the recent scratches in Chicago and the positives not something from three months ago.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2005, 04:04:34 PM »

The ruling was posted last night so that means if they are going to enforce it then his horses would have been scratched tonight. I asked because I need to handicap the card and don't know if Rucker is racing or not. They should think about bettors for once who support the sport. He was talking about the recent scratches in Chicago and the positives not something from three months ago.

Dan:
If they haven't gotten a copy of the ruling, and you say they haven't, they can't scratch any horses.
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VitoTheCapper
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« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2005, 04:10:49 PM »

***........should they scratch the horse just because they saw what you wrote in this forum.or do you think they should follow procedures....

Im sure they will follow up and not forget about his horses.......but please give them time...







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« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2005, 04:17:23 PM »

Look it's on the board he got 6 months not 60 days.

 Richard, just so you know the gout medication lowers the PH so they can use as much baking soda as they wish. That's what was told to me.


Dan I was joking about the 60 days and six months. I screwed up and NJ caught me.

If it was up to me a drug not approved for equine therapy would be a hanging offense. It should not be in the horses system at all for any reason. Except if Manuel the groom had the gout bad from to many rich sour cream & cheese enchiladas so was taking gout drugs and there was enviromental contaimation from his hands. Its what the liars all say. Therapy or not the "indomethacin" drug is classified as Class 4 at ARCI so is this latest one suposedly. Class 4 is Class 4 and every racing commission has there rules for treating the voilations. I dont beleive in a trainer suspended from one state working in another one either but if theye suspend Rucker for Clas 4 than what do they do with all there local Class 4 criminals who walk free every day?
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2005, 04:24:49 PM »

Dan:
If they haven't gotten a copy of the ruling, and you say they haven't, they can't scratch any horses.

Paul
           Just got an e-mail from Tad Stockman from the Big M.

           He said Rucker is under appeal so Jersey won't do anything at this time. I don't know if he means a TRO or he appealed the ruling to the IRB. A TRO is one thing but just an appeal doesn't mean jack shit and the suspension stands.

           Personally, I think Jersey sucks and I have lost all respect for them. If Rucker races horses in Chicago under a different trainer then that means he doesn't have a TRO. If he's down as trainer then he does have a TRO.

           Does anyone know if the horses entered in Chicago this week are under Ruckers name or someone elses? 
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Richard Breth
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« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2005, 04:31:07 PM »

Personally, I think Jersey sucks and I have lost all respect for them.

That means you will not bet there races tonight or any night until the Rucker thing is resolved in favor of justice. Right? Or are you going to be an addicted gambler sheep who just keeps taking whatever they dish out. They dont care about your respect Dan just your money. Hit them where it hurts in the pocketbook. Boycott. Put your money where your mouth is.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2005, 04:48:02 PM »

That means you will not bet there races tonight or any night until the Rucker thing is resolved in favor of justice. Right? Or are you going to be an addicted gambler sheep who just keeps taking whatever they dish out. They dont care about your respect Dan just your money. Hit them where it hurts in the pocketbook. Boycott. Put your money where your mouth is.

I'll be betting Richard. I'm not letting Rucker stop me from making money. I'll decide to use his horse or not. His horses will race just fine you wait and see.
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« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2005, 05:22:43 PM »

lets get some legal opinions and minds about this rucker deal. it is against the law or is it okay to do what nj is doing by allowing rucker to race? calling nj horseman and j dakuris. where are you guys on this? can jersy let him race and what are the rules?
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #44 on: December 07, 2005, 07:38:15 PM »

lets get some legal opinions and minds about this rucker deal. it is against the law or is it okay to do what nj is doing by allowing rucker to race? calling nj horseman and j dakuris. where are you guys on this? can jersy let him race and what are the rules?

I told you they said it is under appeal so they will not take action. If he obtained a TRO then he can race anywhere. If he didn't obtain a TRO then it's bullshit if he is allowed to race.

    My guess is he's going in for a TRO because he has alot of money to pay lawyers.
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burton
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« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2005, 07:47:56 PM »

DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do you really think so ***?
DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Joe B
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« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2005, 07:50:22 PM »

I told you they said it is under appeal so they will not take action. If he obtained a TRO then he can race anywhere. If he didn't obtain a TRO then it's bullshit if he is allowed to race.

 My guess is he's going in for a TRO because he has alot of money to pay lawyers.


Dan - you are really one articulate and insightful guy....thanks for enlightening us daily.
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