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Author Topic: yonkers delay  (Read 2277 times)
FreeLegged
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« on: September 22, 2006, 11:37:24 AM »

good call by someone!! Maybe Buffalo Boy Huh

Somebody posted here that they drove by yonkers and said they had a loooong way to go.


http://www.ustrotting.com/absolutenm/anmviewer.asp?a=17948&z=1
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casemania
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« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2006, 12:28:56 PM »

THEY WILL BE OPEN FOR BUSINESS IN JAN 2007!!


CASEY KNOWS!! Wink
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Buffaloboy
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« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2006, 06:22:28 PM »

good call by someone!! Maybe Buffalo Boy Huh

Somebody posted here that they drove by yonkers and said they had a loooong way to go.


http://www.ustrotting.com/absolutenm/anmviewer.asp?a=17948&z=1


I must pat myself on the back for that one. I drove past Yonkers on my way to Monticello on Labor Day and saw the building. I didnt think Yonkers would want an outdoor open air pavilion on the second floor of the building facing the New York State Thruway.

While we are on the topic, I think Yonkers is blowing this big time. If you read the story and release they put out, they are laying the groundwork for a January 2007 opening as Casemania says.

They had almost four years from the time they had the law passed to do a thorough engineers report on the structural integrity of the building and the old underground parking facility, to get reports on the soil, and electrical system and there is little to show they did it.

It looks as if the Rooneys thought they could get a bunch of day laborers, go to Home Depot with a few hundred bucks and get this built. Each and every time they went to do something, they came out and said, "Crap. We didnt know this was broken". The facility is over 100 years old, a good part of it hasnt been used in decades and they thoughr they could just renovate without a problem.

And what is with this staggered opening. They will open racing and some of their machines in October, other machines in December and then a super grand opening in January. You get one opportunity to make a first impression and opening part of a facility isnt it.

A few years ago, the Rooneys were a few days away from closing their doors due to a lack of money and were rumored to be looking to sell to George Steinbrenner for a new Stadium. The state gave the Rooneys a lifeline with the slots laws and they are blowing. Its a shame that The Rooneys are playing games when Roosevelt Raceway, which was the top harness facility in the world with crowds of 40000-50000 a night and wanting slots from the moment the first opened their doors is now gone.
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« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2006, 11:00:29 PM »

The Rooney are shrewd business people an will do fine, they took there time an will have a topnotch facility
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Buffaloboy
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« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2006, 06:43:47 AM »

They may very well end up with a top notch facility but it will be inspite of themselves. This is not a situation of taking ones time and being shrude. When you look at the original plans and see what they will be ending up with, its clear this was botched. Jeff Gural took over Tioga, domolished it, rebulit a entirely new facility and opened it all at one time well within a year. Tioga is just a couple of hours from Yonkers
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« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2006, 06:59:08 AM »

They may very well end up with a top notch facility but it will be inspite of themselves. This is not a situation of taking ones time and being shrude. When you look at the original plans and see what they will be ending up with, its clear this was botched. Jeff Gural took over Tioga, domolished it, rebulit a entirely new facility and opened it all at one time well within a year. Tioga is just a couple of hours from Yonkers


It's shrewd.  And, this whole deal has not been shrewd -- a mentally handicapped monkey could make big money with that location.

Best,
EW
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« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2006, 09:45:18 AM »

It's shrewd.  And, this whole deal has not been shrewd -- a mentally handicapped monkey could make big money with that location.

Best,
EW


EW,

I am not and have not said the Yonkers Raceway slots will not make tons on money. However, they botched the construction. It should have been up and running a long time ago. Finger Lakes, Buffalo, Batavia, Monticello and Saratoga which all have far less working capital, collateral and earning potential all got up and running before Yonkers did. Tioga, which was torn down then rebuilt and Vernon which closed for a year then had a bankruptcy proceeding and moderate renovation all got running before Yonkers did. Yonkers just should have been running a long time ago. Please dont mention NYRA cause they and the governor are jackasses and this comes from a Reagan Republican.

I cant see how anybody feels how Yonkers staggered opening is good. They are allowed 7500 machines, will put in 5500 in total for now but only open 1800 at first but atthe same time they claim they will have huge crowds. Open it all at once, do it grand and right and let people marvel at it. This is like starting a new Home Depot but saying only the paint department will be open to the public for the first few weeks.
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casemania
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« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2006, 01:57:21 PM »

DONT FORGET ABOUT THE SLOTS ROONEY HAS GOT SET ASIDE FOR HIMSELF!! Wink dollar mucker
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« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2006, 02:07:25 PM »


EW,

I am not and have not said the Yonkers Raceway slots will not make tons on money. However, they botched the construction. It should have been up and running a long time ago. Finger Lakes, Buffalo, Batavia, Monticello and Saratoga which all have far less working capital, collateral and earning potential all got up and running before Yonkers did. Tioga, which was torn down then rebuilt and Vernon which closed for a year then had a bankruptcy proceeding and moderate renovation all got running before Yonkers did. Yonkers just should have been running a long time ago. Please dont mention NYRA cause they and the governor are jackasses and this comes from a Reagan Republican.

I cant see how anybody feels how Yonkers staggered opening is good. They are allowed 7500 machines, will put in 5500 in total for now but only open 1800 at first but atthe same time they claim they will have huge crowds. Open it all at once, do it grand and right and let people marvel at it. This is like starting a new Home Depot but saying only the paint department will be open to the public for the first few weeks.

I entirely agree with you.  Just commenting on whoever stated they were "shrewd."  From what I see "bumbling" might be more accurate.

Best,
EW
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« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2006, 02:14:28 PM »

I entirely agree with you.  Just commenting on whoever stated they were "shrewd."  From what I see "bumbling" might be more accurate.

Best,
EW

Fair enough lol
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« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2006, 02:15:43 PM »

Fair enough lol

It's almost a shame though -- they can completely screw this up, and they'll still be completely rolling in the cash.

Best,
EW
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njhorseman
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« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2006, 04:02:07 PM »

They may very well end up with a top notch facility but it will be inspite of themselves. This is not a situation of taking ones time and being shrude. When you look at the original plans and see what they will be ending up with, its clear this was botched. Jeff Gural took over Tioga, domolished it, rebulit a entirely new facility and opened it all at one time well within a year. Tioga is just a couple of hours from Yonkers


It is unlikely that Gural had to deal with the legions of union leaders, politicians and "wise guys" that the Rooneys have to in order to undertake a massive construction project in Yonkers.

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« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2006, 04:18:01 PM »

It is unlikely that Gural had to deal with the legions of union leaders, politicians and "wise guys" that the Rooneys have to in order to undertake a massive construction project in Yonkers.



Or perhaps he's just better at dealing with them?

Best,
EW
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« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2006, 07:09:58 PM »

NJ hit it right on the head........      Gural did not deal with the unions that the Rooneys have dealt with...The location of Yonkers Raceway to those unfamiliar with it , is in a prime area with a major thoroughfare  running alongside it. I just hope the horsemen racing there get a much improved barn area (currently a real sh#thole) and work out a good deal on the take from slots...guaranteed


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njhorseman
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« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2006, 07:20:51 PM »

Or perhaps he's just better at dealing with them?

Best,
EW

EW:
Rural Upstate NY is a long way from the New York City/ Yonkers area, in more ways than mileage.  Wink
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« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2006, 07:36:50 PM »

EW:
Rural Upstate NY is a long way from the New York City/ Yonkers area, in more ways than mileage.  Wink

Surely.

I just sense that Gural is a sharp character.

Based on what I've seen/heard, the Rooneys could've done much better.

Best,
EW
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« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2006, 10:23:42 PM »

EW,

  Gural is a sharp guy, but comparing Tioga and Yonkers teardown/renovation is apples and oranges...



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« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2006, 12:14:22 AM »

It is unlikely that Gural had to deal with the legions of union leaders, politicians and "wise guys" that the Rooneys have to in order to undertake a massive construction project in Yonkers.




I have not seen word one said in any article that Yonkers has or had problems with any union and the only issue with the politicians was over the cut the City of Yonkers would get from the slots. Neither of with held up construction.
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« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2006, 12:21:58 AM »

Surely.

I just sense that Gural is a sharp character.

Based on what I've seen/heard, the Rooneys could've done much better.

Best,
EW



Jeff Gural's background and money comes from being in real estate in Manhattan. Gural properly did what the Rooneys didnt. Gural had first announced he wanted to renovate Tioga and then he hired people to do a proper and thorough inspection of the structures and property. They told him the building was in bad shape. Gural called in the bulldozers, dumpsters and construction people shortly after. I am curious to know where all this union talk came from. The Horsemen sued Yonkers over the delays, the little bit of coverage it got had no mention of union problems that I saw.
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« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2006, 10:35:21 AM »

Does anyone really think that a building project in Nichols, NY would go the same way as a project in Yonkers, NY?
The types of union problems encountered would probably not make the newspapers...
To say that the Rooneys are not sharp is just stupid...
They are sharp enough to have held onto Yonkers, and as a result will make boatloads of money...
As far a Gural, he is no doubt a sharp guy...
He has Vernon Downs and Tioga Downs, which combined won't handle for a year what Yonkers will ultimately handle in about 2 months...
I wish I had a "retarded monkey" in my family like Mr. Rooney.....
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njhorseman
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« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2006, 10:52:15 AM »


I have not seen word one said in any article that Yonkers has or had problems with any union and the only issue with the politicians was over the cut the City of Yonkers would get from the slots. Neither of with held up construction.

The realities of the construction business in the NY City area are that you always have to deal with the unions, politicians,and wise guys (some of them belong to all three groups  Grin).  It's the reason why building anything in NY costs so much and takes so long. It's been fully documented in years past that the only sources for concrete, as an example,  are from "connected" companies.

Yonkers in particular has  long history of politicians who will require that a "package" of sufficient size be delivered before your project will be allowed to proceed.

You won't hear anything about it because anyone who complains runs the risk of being taken for a ride and fitted for a pair of concrete boots.
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casemania
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« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2006, 11:00:43 AM »

WORD ON THE STREET IS THAT THE CONTRACTORS ARE TOLD TO WORK AS SLOOOOOOW AS POSSIBLE!!! Wink
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off stride
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« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2006, 11:17:31 AM »

outside of new york and its nearby states..is there any interest in racing at yonkers on a national scale...such as that offered by the big m?
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casemania
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« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2006, 11:58:03 AM »

outside of new york and its nearby states..is there any interest in racing at yonkers on a national scale...such as that offered by the big m?
UNLESS YOU LIKE LINE UP NUMBERS ON 5 CLAIMERS W/ BOUCHARD AND SORENTINO,I WOULD SAY NO!!! CAUSE THATS WHAT YOUR GONNA GET FOR THE FIRST YEAR THAT THEY ARE REOPENED!!!
SAME OLD YONKERS LARCENY BY THE SAME OLD LARCENISTS!! Grin
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« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2006, 12:16:44 PM »

The realities of the construction business in the NY City area are that you always have to deal with the unions, politicians,and wise guys (some of them belong to all three groups  Grin).  It's the reason why building anything in NY costs so much and takes so long. It's been fully documented in years past that the only sources for concrete, as an example,  are from "connected" companies.

Yonkers in particular has  long history of politicians who will require that a "package" of sufficient size be delivered before your project will be allowed to proceed.

You won't hear anything about it because anyone who complains runs the risk of being taken for a ride and fitted for a pair of concrete boots.


NJ then you are saying Yonkers and the Rooneys are lying. The negotiations between the track and the City of Yonkers did not hold up construction for a second. The first delay was Yonkers itself saying they could not secure financing and loans while the slots law itself was in the courts and being rewritten. Yet all the other harness tracks and Finger Lakes went ahead and built.

Ever other delay has come from Yonkers Raceway stating there were problems with their own building and their own infrastructure. I understand everybody wants there cut but there hasent even been rumors of anything else causing delays.

There was already a law suit on the delays and not a peep on the city or unions causing delays. Thats a big secrtet to keep in this area.
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« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2006, 12:40:17 PM »

outside of new york and its nearby states..is there any interest in racing at yonkers on a national scale...such as that offered by the big m?

Stride, In all fairness not too long ago, Yonkers was the #2 track and by that I mean since Roosevelt closed. Yonkers took over all the Roosevelt dates and a respectable part of their stakes races like the International, the Messenger, the Levy and their sire stakes races. Yonkers was racing eight ten race cards a week with a Tuesday doubleheader. During the summer stakes seasons it was routine for the top drivers to helicopter back and forth between Yonkers and The Big M.

In no special order, NY politics, OTB, The Big M and Yonkers themselves killed Yonkers. Slowly, eight cards a week dwindled down to three when they closed for construction. The $50,000 Opens were down to about $10-$15,000. The International trot was stopped, the Cane Pace and Messenger moved. Crowds of thousands were down to dozens.

If Yonkers gets the money from slots that they expect and the Rooneys do have a true commitment to racing that is needed, Yonkers can and should become a national player again but that is years away.

Can they rival or beat The Big M? Of course they can. The Big M beat Roosevelt and Roosevelt was the Taj Mahal. It comes down to politicians, track management and who does a bad job at the wrong time.

The success of Yonkers will dictate The Big M's next move. Will they work a deal with the AC casinos to add slots or even table games. They are already going to add a huge shopping mall to the Meadowlands Complex. I think there is a lot yet to be played out.
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« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2006, 06:59:14 PM »

IMO, I don't think any 1/2 mile track will outdo the BigM and the WEG tracks.(purses and attendance).


   Bettor

ps it should be interesting at the end of 2007 when the contract with the AC casinos expire. BigM wants slots but the Governor nixes the idea.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2006, 07:42:30 PM »


NJ then you are saying Yonkers and the Rooneys are lying. The negotiations between the track and the City of Yonkers did not hold up construction for a second. The first delay was Yonkers itself saying they could not secure financing and loans while the slots law itself was in the courts and being rewritten. Yet all the other harness tracks and Finger Lakes went ahead and built.

Ever other delay has come from Yonkers Raceway stating there were problems with their own building and their own infrastructure. I understand everybody wants there cut but there hasent even been rumors of anything else causing delays.

There was already a law suit on the delays and not a peep on the city or unions causing delays. Thats a big secrtet to keep in this area.

The financial backing for the Yonkers Raceway project was withdrawn by the lenders until the legalities of slots in NY were cleared up by the courts and legislature. Saratoga and the other had opened long before that, and were allowed to remain in operation by the courts pending the final resolution of the issue. Had the slots been declared  illegal, Saratoga, et al would have been forced to shut down. The amount of money needed to open slot parlors at places like Saratoga and Finger Lakes was a tiny fraction of what the Yonkers project will cost, hence financial backing was more readily available. Once the legal issues were settled, the lenders for Yonkers got back on board and the work started.

What I am talking about is what happens after that point. Do you expect to see articles in the Wall Street Journal quoting the Rooneys about the need to line the pockets of union leaders, politicians and wise guys? It is a fact of life when doing business in  the NY City area, and the City of Yonkers itself has a long history of corruption.

It is likely that Jeff Gural would have gotten the job done more quickly, because it is already his principal business. As you probably know, he is chairman of Newmark and Company, a large real estate management and development company. Obviously he has more experience in dealing with all these characters. However, I'll wager that if Gural were rebuilding Yonkers Raceway, it still would have taken significantly longer than the work on Tioga and Vernon.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2006, 07:45:40 PM »

IMO, I don't think any 1/2 mile track will outdo the BigM and the WEG tracks.(purses and attendance).


   Bettor

ps it should be interesting at the end of 2007 when the contract with the AC casinos expire. BigM wants slots but the Governor nixes the idea.

Bettor:

It won't be due to the attendance and racing handle, but Yonkers purses will be higher than the Big M's because of the slots. Millions live within 30 minutes of Yonkers and millions more within an hour. The potential is enormous.
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« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2006, 09:13:40 AM »

Paul,
I hope you're right as I live on L.I.and would like to stable out here instead of NJ.


Bettor
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2006, 09:19:21 AM »

Paul,
I hope you're right as I live on L.I.and would like to stable out here instead of NJ.


Bettor


From what I've heard, it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that the purses will be higher -- the only question is how much.

We'll see how it all turns out though.....

Best,
EW
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