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Author Topic: Question for owners on here  (Read 6560 times)
glf
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« Reply #50 on: September 03, 2006, 08:47:21 AM »

Swayback FCC has had different trainers but never this many with one trainer, he has had sprinkled a few around.
Why don't you tell us about your experience with getting ripped off so we can either side with you or explain why it happened to you. Please don't give up on the game, obviously you haven't or you would not be on this forum. You are still curious about racing.
There are many good people in the game and some that are out for the money. That happens in any field of business. But you have to explain your dislike!!! carrot
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SWAY BACK
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« Reply #51 on: September 03, 2006, 06:45:14 PM »

3 YEARS AGO I HAD A TRAINER ASK ME TO GO PARTNERS WITH HIM ON A REAL NICE HORSE HE WAS BUYING PRIVATELY FROM A BIG FARM. HE TOLD ME HOW GREAT THIS HORSE IS AND HOW FAST HE IS AND WITHOUT A DOUBT HE WILL BE A STAKES HORSE. HE TOLD ME THE HORSE COST $50,000, $25,000 EACH. I SAID LETS DO IT. FOR A WHOLE YEAR HE WAS GIVING ME BULL ABOUT HOW THE HORSE WAS DOING WITH A BUNCH OF NAGGING INJURIES AND THEN HE TOLD ME IT DIED. I HAD AN INVESTIGATION AND FOUND OUT THERE WAS NO SUCH HORSE AND HAD HIM ARRESTED. I DROPPED THE CHARGES AFTER HE PAID ME BACK MY $25,000 PLUS ALL THE TRAINING BILLS AND MY LEGAL COST WITH 10% INTEREST. 2 YEARS AGO I HAD A TRAINER DROP MY HORSE AFTER A BAD RACE WHICH WAS A FLUKE. I DID NOT WANT TO DROP HIM FROM $35,000 TO $10,000 AND HE DID ANYWAY. MY HORSE GOT CLAIMED AND 4 MONTHS LATER AFTER THE HORSE WON 4 RACES AND TWO 2ND'S FOR $35,000 AND UP I FOUND OUT FROM A GROOM HE FIRED THAT HIS COUSIN WAS THE ONE WHO CLAIMED HIM AND MY TRAINER WAS HIS PARTNER. I COULD NOT PROVE THAT SO I TOOK IT OUT OF HIS ASS WITH A GOOD OLD FASHION ASS WHIPPIN. I COLLECTED ANOTHER $12,000 FROM HIM. THATS MY 2 EXPERIENCES IN THE HORSE BUSINESS.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2006, 06:49:25 PM by SWAY BACK » Report to moderator   Logged
photofinish
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« Reply #52 on: September 03, 2006, 07:12:44 PM »

Sway Back,

    You certainly have major reasons to be upset!!!! You caught 2 for 2 JERKS!!! Guys like that are what kill the industry. They can't see past their greedy little pockets. The don't understand that they've not only soured a new, enthusiastic owner, but you'll undoubtedly tell any friends to "stay away" and they will repeat your warnings......An "ethics board" would be a great idea, but who'd police it fairly?

    On behalf of the legitimate end of the industry, I again offer apologies. I'm impressed you still follow racing at all.
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glf
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« Reply #53 on: September 04, 2006, 07:21:16 AM »

I can see your dislike for trainers but the nagging question is well there's 2 questions. First how do you pay that much money and never see the horse in person and was it here in Illinois? Just remember that all trainers are not bad. If you were to get in the business I would check out the trainer, go out to his/her barn and see the operation and spent a little time around the track. Owning a horse is taking a chance on something you believe in and it is definitely a hard business. We always tell people when they are new in the business never spend more than you can afford to lose.
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« Reply #54 on: September 04, 2006, 08:29:20 AM »

SWAY BACK,

Something just doesn't ring true to your story. What were the names of the hypothetical horse and also the $35,000.00 claimer? How could you pay for a horse that never existed?  Didn't you ask for the horses published work-outs or race results? What about pictures of the horse? Also, what is the name of the trainer? You should be happy to give all of us that information. If you don't give it, then you are just as bad as him/her because you know this person should be exposed so that it doesn't happen to any of us other owners.
Also, you as an owner can scratch your own horse from any race. You may be penalized (a very insignificant amount) if there isn't a valid reason, but a trainer dropping a horse from $35k to $10 IMO would need a very VALID proof that the horse is not worth $35k. What was that horses name? And again what is the trainers name?
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David
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« Reply #55 on: September 04, 2006, 08:35:32 AM »

I will agree that there seems to be some holes in the story, but not that outlandish as it first seems as in California a trainer was sued and settled for just such an incident - but on a larger scale.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/articleindex/article.asp?id=26654
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #56 on: September 04, 2006, 09:35:58 AM »

David,

It's an interesting news story, and quite disturbing but completely different from what SWAY BACK stated. In the story that you posted, the horses were "real" race horses. SWAY BACK stated that there was no such horse ALIVE or DEAD. If he had all that money to put up then he must not be a "sloutch". There a dozens of ways to easily check to see all aspects of ANY registered horse - whether it's racing or not at the time. I just don't think it rings true, and would like to see SWAY BACK name the trainer, and also the names of these horses that he's talking about.
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ageecee
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« Reply #57 on: September 04, 2006, 11:02:37 AM »

3 YEARS AGO I HAD A TRAINER ASK ME TO GO PARTNERS WITH HIM ON A REAL NICE HORSE HE WAS BUYING PRIVATELY FROM A BIG FARM. HE TOLD ME HOW GREAT THIS HORSE IS AND HOW FAST HE IS AND WITHOUT A DOUBT HE WILL BE A STAKES HORSE. HE TOLD ME THE HORSE COST $50,000, $25,000 EACH. I SAID LETS DO IT. FOR A WHOLE YEAR HE WAS GIVING ME BULL ABOUT HOW THE HORSE WAS DOING WITH A BUNCH OF NAGGING INJURIES AND THEN HE TOLD ME IT DIED. I HAD AN INVESTIGATION AND FOUND OUT THERE WAS NO SUCH HORSE AND HAD HIM ARRESTED. I DROPPED THE CHARGES AFTER HE PAID ME BACK MY $25,000 PLUS ALL THE TRAINING BILLS AND MY LEGAL COST WITH 10% INTEREST. 2 YEARS AGO I HAD A TRAINER DROP MY HORSE AFTER A BAD RACE WHICH WAS A FLUKE. I DID NOT WANT TO DROP HIM FROM $35,000 TO $10,000 AND HE DID ANYWAY. MY HORSE GOT CLAIMED AND 4 MONTHS LATER AFTER THE HORSE WON 4 RACES AND TWO 2ND'S FOR $35,000 AND UP I FOUND OUT FROM A GROOM HE FIRED THAT HIS COUSIN WAS THE ONE WHO CLAIMED HIM AND MY TRAINER WAS HIS PARTNER. I COULD NOT PROVE THAT SO I TOOK IT OUT OF HIS ASS WITH A GOOD OLD FASHION ASS WHIPPIN. I COLLECTED ANOTHER $12,000 FROM HIM. THATS MY 2 EXPERIENCES IN THE HORSE BUSINESS.



Who was the trainer please let us know?
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SWAY BACK
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« Reply #58 on: September 04, 2006, 11:42:36 AM »

I can see your dislike for trainers but the nagging question is well there's 2 questions. First how do you pay that much money and never see the horse in person and was it here in Illinois? Just remember that all trainers are not bad. If you were to get in the business I would check out the trainer, go out to his/her barn and see the operation and spent a little time around the track. Owning a horse is taking a chance on something you believe in and it is definitely a hard business. We always tell people when they are new in the business never spend more than you can afford to lose.
GLF, I DID NOT INVEST MORE THAN I COULD LOSE AS A MATTER OF FACT I GOT MY INVESTMENT BACK. I CANT AFFORD TO BE CHEATED AT ANY EXPENSE. I TRUSTED THIS PERSON AND THATS WHY I INVESTED. I KNOW ALL TRAINERS ARE NOT THAT BAD. THERE ARE IN MY OPINION 30% GOOD.
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SWAY BACK
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« Reply #59 on: September 04, 2006, 11:45:17 AM »

Sway Back,

    You certainly have major reasons to be upset!!!! You caught 2 for 2 JERKS!!! Guys like that are what kill the industry. They can't see past their greedy little pockets. The don't understand that they've not only soured a new, enthusiastic owner, but you'll undoubtedly tell any friends to "stay away" and they will repeat your warnings......An "ethics board" would be a great idea, but who'd police it fairly?

    On behalf of the legitimate end of the industry, I again offer apologies. I'm impressed you still follow racing at all.

PHOTOFINISH, YOU NDO NOT HAVE TO APPOLIGIZE FOR CROOKS. PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD HAVE ALREDY STATED YOU WERE A GOOD TRAINER AND NO ONE HAS SAID OTHERWISE.  ALWAYS STAY THAT WAY.
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #60 on: September 04, 2006, 11:45:26 AM »

GLF, I DID NOT INVEST MORE THAN I COULD LOSE AS A MATTER OF FACT I GOT MY INVESTMENT BACK. I CANT AFFORD TO BE CHEATED AT ANY EXPENSE. I TRUSTED THIS PERSON AND THATS WHY I INVESTED. I KNOW ALL TRAINERS ARE NOT THAT BAD. THERE ARE IN MY OPINION 30% GOOD.

OK..so who was the trainer, and what were the horses names? (second request)
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SWAY BACK
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« Reply #61 on: September 04, 2006, 11:52:54 AM »

SWAY BACK,

Something just doesn't ring true to your story. What were the names of the hypothetical horse and also the $35,000.00 claimer? How could you pay for a horse that never existed?  Didn't you ask for the horses published work-outs or race results? What about pictures of the horse? Also, what is the name of the trainer? You should be happy to give all of us that information. If you don't give it, then you are just as bad as him/her because you know this person should be exposed so that it doesn't happen to any of us other owners.
Also, you as an owner can scratch your own horse from any race. You may be penalized (a very insignificant amount) if there isn't a valid reason, but a trainer dropping a horse from $35k to $10 IMO would need a very VALID proof that the horse is not worth $35k. What was that horses name? And again what is the trainers name?
RIGHT AWAY YOU THINK I AM LYING BECAUSE YOU CANT BELIEVE THIS HAPPENS. WELL FOR SOMEONE IN THE HORSE BUSINESS YOU BETTER KNOW IT HAPPENS EVERYDAY AND TAKE OFF THE BLINKERS. I HAVE PUT EVERYTHING BEHIND ME NOW AND HAVE RECOUPED MY INITIAL INVESTMENT MY WAY. IF YOU INVESTIGATE YOU CAN FIND OUT WHO THE TRAINER WAS. HE WAS ARRESTED AT THE TRACK AND IT WAS FRONT PAGE NEWS. AS FAR AS THE CLAIMER GOES HE RAN A BAD RACE AND THE TRAINER TOLD ME WE NEED TO WIN AND GET HIM CLAIMED BECAUSE HE DID NOT HAVE MANY RACES LEFT WHICH WAS ALL BULLSHIT.
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #62 on: September 04, 2006, 12:09:32 PM »

I realize there are bad trainers. I don't think you are lying, but it just doesn't ring true to me. Why don't you tell me the trainers name and also the $35k claimers name? If you really think want to help your fellow horsemen - you will expose this.
Or, why do you want to keep this a secret?
That's why it doesn't ring true to me, because you won't provide the names.
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SWAY BACK
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« Reply #63 on: September 04, 2006, 12:20:15 PM »

BEAUNARRO, I DID NOT WANT TO AIR MY PROBLEMS I WAS JUST MAKING A COMMENT IN GENERAL ABOUT THE HONESTY OF TRAINERS. THEY ARE BUM RAPPING EVERYONE THAT QUESTIONS THEM HERE ON THE BOARD. I WAS ASKED BY A TRAINER TO GIVE A SPECIFIC ABOUT TRAINING. IF I GIVE YOU THE NAME OF THE $35,000 CLAIMER YOU WILL KNOW WHO I AM AND WHO THE TRAINER IS AND I DONT WANT TO OPEN A CAN OF WORMS THAT IS CLOSED. THE HORSE THAT NEVER EXISTED WAS A 2YR OLD IN TRAINING ON A PRIVATE FARM 900 MILES FROM WHERE I LIVE. HE SUPPOSEDLY HAD INJURIES IN TRAINING AND NEVER MADE IT TO THE TRACK. THE INCIDENT WAS NEWS WHEN IT HAPPEN. BY THE WAY THE LAST CLAIM ON tHE $35,000 CLAIMER WAS $35,000 4 MONTHS AFTER I LOST HIM.
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mel4600
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« Reply #64 on: September 04, 2006, 01:11:14 PM »

Sway Back,

Your story is so bizarre that I believe you and I think I know who it is. Thats why I never let anyone buy my horses for me and I buy at least one two year old every year. My advice to all potential owners is that if your not going to get involved in this business stay out of it. There are several good trainers at the track and you are way off on that 70% figure. Of all the trainers I have had, and believe me I have had plenty, I would have no problem doing business with all of them again under the right circumstances with the exception of 2. That means 80% plus are good people.
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RunSuckerRun
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« Reply #65 on: September 04, 2006, 05:12:15 PM »

Swayback starts off with this diversion:
Quote
RIGHT AWAY YOU THINK I AM LYING BECAUSE YOU CANT BELIEVE THIS HAPPENS. WELL FOR SOMEONE IN THE HORSE BUSINESS YOU BETTER KNOW IT HAPPENS EVERYDAY AND TAKE OFF THE BLINKERS.


And then ducks and dodges with this:
Quote
I DID NOT WANT TO AIR MY PROBLEMS I WAS JUST MAKING A COMMENT IN GENERAL ABOUT THE HONESTY OF TRAINERS

You lying wretch.  Come on, if somebody ripped you off like this you should have no reservations about laying them out. 

-RSR
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SWAY BACK
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« Reply #66 on: September 05, 2006, 09:00:46 AM »

Swayback starts off with this diversion:  

And then ducks and dodges with this:
You lying wretch.  Come on, if somebody ripped you off like this you should have no reservations about laying them out. 

-RSR

SUCKER YOU DUMB ASS I DID LAY THEM OUT IF YOU READ MY POSTS AND RECOVERED MY MONEY. YOU THINK YOUR BIG SHIT I'LL BET YOU $5,000 I WILL PROVE TO YOU THIS HAPPEN. WILL GIVE YOU THE FACTS SHOW UP WITH THE CASH AND AFTER YOU PAY YOU CAN RUN YOUR MOUTH ALL YOU WANT. I NAMED MY PARTY WHEN IT HAPPEN AND HAD HIS DODGING ASS ARRESTED. NOW YOU CAN PUT UP OR SHUT UP.
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« Reply #67 on: September 05, 2006, 06:37:51 PM »

Another issue with trainer day rates is purse structure.  At some point in time, it doesn't make sense to run at certain tracks because the purse structure does not support the costs of paying the trainer and other expenses.

I moved out to Phoenix a few years ago.  Brought one horse from Illinois who I thought counld be competitive and pay his way.  Dropped him in price and ended up getting lucky that someone claimed him.

Earlier this year sent a horse form Northern Cal down to Turf Paradise.  Same results wouldn't run a lick.  Trainer in Northern Cal wantyed to nominate him for a stakes race coming off the layoff.  Horse couldn't win for $3000 at Truf Paradise.  Finally finishes 3rd at the bottom.  Sell him to some guy who wants to take him to Canterbury Park.  Dam horse wins 3 in a row up there.


Was trainer a crook?  No. 

Right now I have a mare in foal down in Kentucky.  Need to decide where to ship her.  Do I bring her back to Illinois, send her to California?  What about Pennslyvania or New York.  I breed to race so where do I get the most bang for the buck?


Not happy with the track at Arlington.  Had to retire one mare and had another horse come up with a hairline fracture


At some point in time, no matter what the day rate is, financial decisions need to be made.  At least in California if the horse runs up the track, you still get $300 - $400.  Better yet, the typical race out there is a 5 or 6 horse field.
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Exbourne
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« Reply #68 on: September 05, 2006, 07:08:56 PM »

Sway.

  I kind of believe you.
But please stop with the cap letters in the posts.
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