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Author Topic: Stan Bergstein writes: "EPO CHEATERS CAN NOW BE NAILED"  (Read 4379 times)
vegas jay
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« on: August 10, 2006, 12:11:16 AM »

Here are a few excerpts from the story on the development of a new test to nail EPO cheaters, written by longtime harness racing columnist Stan Bergstein (the entire article appears in Thursday's editions of DAILY RACING FORM and can also be viewed on DRF's website...www.drf.com...)

"...There is now a test for EPO --- the drug itself, not just for the antibodies created by it --- and it has already produced results..."

"...The test was developed by the Pennsylvania Equine Toxicology and Research Laboratory (PETRL)..."

"...PETRL has become the first laboratory to directly confirm the presence in horses of erythropoietin (EPO) and darbepoetin alfa --- substances that increase the production of red blood cells. According to people on the backstretch, EPO has become the drug of choice because it is difficult to detect and is believed to increase aerobic function and endurance..."

"...They were able to develop a brand new method of breaking apart the protein of the human EPO molecules into smaller fractions called peptides, thus allowing positive identification of the EPO itself, using very sensitive liquid chromatographic tandem mass spectrometry techonology..."

"...'We have optimized the method, and today we are able to make the positive EPO-darbepoetin alfa identification, NOT JUST the presence of antibodies that may be produced in the horse by the administration of human EPO to horses,' said Dr. Larry Soma, the veteran and highly regarded equine research director at the New Bolton Center of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine..."

"...Asked if he thought the test would stand up against court challenges, Soma's toxicology lab director Dr. Cornelius Uboh quickly answered, 'No doubt. They can send these tests anywhere in the world for verification'..."

"...So the scientists have caught up with the crooks..."

"...The first example came in Ontario, where the pacesetting Ontario Racing Commission...asked if it could send samples there for verification of its own positive tests for EPO. The tests confirmed what Ontario had found, and Ontario quickly suspended trainer Todd Gray and is recommending a 10-year suspension and $100,000 fine. A journeyman trainer until two years ago, Gray rose in the ranks with the pacer Rair Earth, a winner of $1.3 million and one of three of Gray's horses that tested positive for EPO..."

"...The willingness of the Ontario Commission and laboratory to send samples to a laboratory outside their normal testing protocol, and to bear the considerable price of the sophisticated new testing, is an example of how racing can keep up with drugs that are expensive and difficult to detect..."

"...Unfortunately, it is not the end of the trail. The cheaters will not stop because of this latest discovery. They are likely, however, to stop using EPO, the scourge of the sport in recent months..."
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BOBBY ORR
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« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2006, 12:21:41 AM »



            Who cares its to late there already onto the next drug.




 Bobby
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Evan Sabove
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« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2006, 07:35:08 AM »

If the test can not determine the time of administration I would like to see how it could stand up in court. thumbs down
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burton
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« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2006, 08:04:28 AM »

Holborn Hanover goes 1:46 4/5 with no help?
I don't think so.
On the day where our sport gets some attention, a fraud like Bill Robinson goes into the record books with this horse?
Disgusting!
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the DailyDaley
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« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2006, 10:26:18 AM »

Once again the GREAT EVAN SABOVE makes his usual comment:

"If the test can not determine the time of administration I would like to see how it could stand up in court".

And again, Evan never "thinks out of the box".

1. If the horse tests positive for EPO or Aranesp than that speaks for itself.

2. If a trail can be established, then the race commission should step in and act accordingly.

3. If a trail CANNOT be confirmed, then that the horse in question goes on an EXTENDED VACATION, let's say 6 months. No trainer bill (meaning the current trainer does not get paid) and the owner does not have the opportunity to race to make money and also has to pay a turn out fee.

This would be implemented by track management as a way to control future "POSITIVES".

4. All horses should be tested. Especially claimed ones, at sales or auctions and also those "FUNNY TRANSFERS".

Think about it EVAN. Just Once.  dude
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Evan Sabove
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« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2006, 10:55:53 AM »

Thought about it.  Still thinking about it, outside of the box and outside of your head up your ass.  So how about you uncork it from the rectal area and think about the damage that could happen to the lively hood of many if the time of administration is not determined.
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tonymfan
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« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2006, 11:01:24 AM »

Thought about it.  Still thinking about it, outside of the box and outside of your head up your ass.  So how about you uncork it from the rectal area and think about the damage that could happen to the lively hood of many if the time of administration is not determined.

The drug itself is only in the system a short time isn't it? Does its job and eliminates like any drug.

The argument on antibodies was they could stay in the system a long time so there was no way to determine time of administration. Don't think it will be the same problem with the drug.

NJ Horseman will correct me if I'm wrong.  Grin
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Evan Sabove
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« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2006, 11:05:49 AM »

Once again the GREAT EVAN SABOVE makes his usual comment:

"If the test can not determine the time of administration I would like to see how it could stand up in court".

And again, Evan never "thinks out of the box".

1. If the horse tests positive for EPO or Aranesp than that speaks for itself.


It does?  How?  Trainer responsibility?  How far can this actually be carried?  If administration time is not established why would any trainer agree to take on a horse that has not been under his/her control for at least six months?

2. If a trail can be established, then the race commission should step in and act accordingly.


So what exactly are we arguing about?  A trail is not established by confirmation of a presence.  A trail is trail!

3. If a trail CANNOT be confirmed, then that the horse in question goes on an EXTENDED VACATION, let's say 6 months. No trainer bill (meaning the current trainer does not get paid) and the owner does not have the opportunity to race to make money and also has to pay a turn out fee.


Again I ask.........Why buy or claim a horse and risk it?

This would be implemented by track management as a way to control future "POSITIVES".


Track Managements?  HA!  Very few take on or want the responsibility.  How is this controlling in any way shape or form future occurrences?

4. All horses should be tested. Especially claimed ones, at sales or auctions and also those "FUNNY TRANSFERS".


With the cost being put on whom?  We all ready have mention of trainers taking deals from owners who are over taxed from lessing purses.  Who is going to pay for all these tests on say 1500 horses that will go through the Delaware sale in November?

Think about it EVAN. Just Once.  dude

Not just once, but many times I think you a fool.

« Last Edit: August 10, 2006, 11:10:00 AM by Evan Sabove » Report to moderator   Logged
Evan Sabove
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« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2006, 11:08:16 AM »

The drug itself is only in the system a short time isn't it? Does its job and eliminates like any drug.

The argument on antibodies was they could stay in the system a long time so there was no way to determine time of administration. Don't think it will be the same problem with the drug.

NJ Horseman will correct me if I'm wrong.  Grin


Which is I guess the question I am asking.  I have yet to read from any of the news reports of levels, half-lifes, administration guidelines, or any of the other goodies involved in calling a positive.

And I'm sure DailyDaley will correct me. 8)
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tonymfan
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« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2006, 11:12:39 AM »


Which is I guess the question I am asking.  I have yet to read from any of the news reports of levels, half-lifes, administration guidelines, or any of the other goodies involved in calling a positive.

Me either. It will be taken care of. Horsemen should begin their crying about threshold values in about two days.
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Evan Sabove
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« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2006, 11:17:12 AM »

I know there are states that ban a veterinarian from having in their possesion any form of EPO.  While I am aware of the New Jersey/Ledford situation, shouldn't there be some kind of Federal investigation by now?  Or is horse racing to minuscule of an issue for them to take notice?
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tonymfan
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« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2006, 11:22:54 AM »

While I am aware of the New Jersey/Ledford situation, shouldn't there be some kind of Federal investigation by now?  Or is horse racing to minuscule of an issue for them to take notice?

Too miniscule and not their business to begin with.
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Evan Sabove
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« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2006, 11:25:20 AM »

Too miniscule and not their business to begin with.


The FDA has no business in abuse of EPO in horse racing?  Why do you think this?  Because it is horse racing or the drug use aspect of it?
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tonymfan
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« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2006, 11:32:07 AM »


The FDA has no business in abuse of EPO in horse racing?

Don't think so. Don't think they get involved with abuse of any drug. Their job is safety up front and monitoring later.

The DEA will get involved in cases of trafficking drugs that are DEA controlled substances but EPO isn't one.

FDA's mission.

http://www.fda.gov/opacom/morechoices/mission.html
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2006, 11:37:15 AM »

Holborn Hanover goes 1:46 4/5 with no help?
I don't think so.
On the day where our sport gets some attention, a fraud like Bill Robinson goes into the record books with this horse?
Disgusting!

Nice comment burton before you even know if the man did something wrong or not. That's why you are known as a grandstnd goof.

    More topics about dope and horse dopers.
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tonymfan
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« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2006, 11:39:38 AM »

More topics about dope and horse dopers.

A more interesting and informational topic than the continual crying about being screwed and cheated.  Tongue
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2006, 11:44:58 AM »

A more interesting and informational topic than the continual crying about being screwed and cheated.  Tongue

The truth hurts!
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« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2006, 11:48:25 AM »

If EPO is going to be regarded a "class 1 violation", does the "TIME it is admistered to the animal have any bearing?

Im asking......I dont know.


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« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2006, 11:48:47 AM »

Nice comment burton before you even know if the man did something wrong or not. That's why you are known as a grandstand goof.

    More topics about dope and horse dopers.

I don't think Holborn Hanover raced in 1:46 4/5 legitimately!
His record up until three stars ago does not suggest that he is capable of doing it.
Robinson's record on the other hand suggests that he is a cheat.
I'm putting two and two together.
You don't get that time with that horse just because they raced on a hot afternoon.
He did it all on his own without the fractions being set up for him.
If that line of thinking makes me a "grandstand goof" so be it.
A grandstand goof is better than being a has been with nothing positive to say about anything or anybody.
Now go and tell me about some claimer you won with 25 years ago!
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tonymfan
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« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2006, 11:50:23 AM »

The truth hurts!

It might if it was true. Paranoid inferiority complex delusions merely entertain.
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Evan Sabove
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« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2006, 11:57:36 AM »

Don't think so. Don't think they get involved with abuse of any drug. Their job is safety up front and monitoring later.

The DEA will get involved in cases of trafficking drugs that are DEA controlled substances but EPO isn't one.

FDA's mission.

http://www.fda.gov/opacom/morechoices/mission.html


Gotcha
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2006, 12:07:48 PM »

I don't think Holborn Hanover raced in 1:46 4/5 legitimately!
His record up until three stars ago does not suggest that he is capable of doing it.
Robinson's record on the other hand suggests that he is a cheat.
I'm putting two and two together.
You don't get that time with that horse just because they raced on a hot afternoon.
He did it all on his own without the fractions being set up for him.
If that line of thinking makes me a "grandstand goof" so be it.
A grandstand goof is better than being a has been with nothing positive to say about anything or anybody.
Now go and tell me about some claimer you won with 25 years ago!

OK, I will. How about that Perrigrin horse I claimed off Ole' Insko. Man was he a monster with those stovepipe ankles. I believe I won 6 in a row after the claim and he won about 60K for my owner after it was all over when Don Brooks dipped in and claimed him. Don raced him about 3 starts and then he was history. Man, I love being a has been. I would hate to be " a never was " like you burton.

    Now back to your grandstand goof comments. Go ahead and label guys horse dopers before you even know if the horse was juiced or not. Go to Oakbrook and sit with your other buddy with the last name of Burton and talk that shit with him while he pimps out whores.   
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« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2006, 12:31:48 PM »

Dan

Perrigrin with stove pipe ankles???


More like nuclear smoke stacks!!!!!!!!!!


I raced him two starts at prairie meadows for the "fat cat". Wow, how he could even go forward was beyond me.


how long were those ankles like that Dan? Must of been years!
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« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2006, 12:35:43 PM »


Which is I guess the question I am asking.  I have yet to read from any of the news reports of levels, half-lifes, administration guidelines, or any of the other goodies involved in calling a positive.

And I'm sure DailyDaley will correct me. 8)

If a horse hasn't changed barns, at the minimum the trainer (and horse) can be busted and put on the shelf.

If he has changed barns, even if the time isn't known, we have a tipoff to test two trainers (the current and the one it was bought or claimed from), and I'll take that as improvement.  Obviously, the important part is just having the ability to find out positives.  I'm sure they are working towards the steps you explain.

Best,
EW
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casemania
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« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2006, 12:39:31 PM »

STAN BERGSTEIN IS ANOTHER OLD CODGER THAT THE SPORT HAS PASSED BY!! HE DOESNT EVEN KNOW WHAT THE HELL HES TALKING ABOUT ANYMORE!! HES JUST ONE OF THESE DOPES WHO LIKES TO RELIVE HISTORICAL FACTS INSTEAD OF WHATS GOING ON W/ TODAYS DRIVERS AND TRAINERS!! HES NO LONGER RELEVANT AND SHOULD JUST STEP ASIDE FROM WHATEVER TRUMPED UP POSITION HE HOLDS!!
HELL.........HES PROBABLY STILL TRYING TO BET ON STANLEY DANCER AND BILL HAUGHTON!!!

STAN BERGSTEIN--------------------------> geezer
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« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2006, 12:41:26 PM »

STAN BERGSTEIN IS ANOTHER OLD CODGER THAT THE SPORT HAS PASSED BY!! HE DOESNT EVEN KNOW WHAT THE HELL HES TALKING ABOUT ANYMORE!! HES JUST ONE OF THESE DOPES WHO LIKES TO RELIVE HISTORICAL FACTS INSTEAD OF WHATS GOING ON W/ TODAYS DRIVERS AND TRAINERS!! HES NO LONGER RELEVANT AND SHOULD JUST STEP ASIDE FROM WHATEVER TRUMPED UP POSITION HE HOLDS!!
HELL.........HES PROBABLY STILL TRYING TO BET ON STANLEY DANCER AND BILL HAUGHTON!!!

STAN BERGSTEIN--------------------------> geezer

I'm sorry to say that Stan has forgotten more than you'll ever know.  He's definitely not in his prime, but there's much that can be learned from the wisdom of people like this.

Plus, as an added bonus, he types in lowercase letters.   Cheesy

Best,
EW
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2006, 12:52:15 PM »

Dan

Perrigrin with stove pipe ankles???


More like nuclear smoke stacks!!!!!!!!!!


I raced him two starts at prairie meadows for the "fat cat". Wow, how he could even go forward was beyond me.


how long were those ankles like that Dan? Must of been years!

 He had those ankles when I claimed him from Ole'. It didn't stop me from winning 6 straight and 60K. I told Don when he claimed him not to inject his ankles with anything. He didn't listen and blow them up bigger then they were. I guess that's what turned them from stovepipes to nuclear smoke stacks.

    Man it's great being a " has been " and taking about the good old days. Burton has nothing to talk about because he was a " never was ". 
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« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2006, 01:35:42 PM »

He had those ankles when I claimed him from Ole'. It didn't stop me from winning 6 straight and 60K. I told Don when he claimed him not to inject his ankles with anything. He didn't listen and blow them up bigger then they were. I guess that's what turned them from stovepipes to nuclear smoke stacks.

    Man it's great being a " has been " and taking about the good old days. Burton has nothing to talk about because he was a " never was ". 


*** taking another topic off target with some story about some cheap claimer from 25 years ago.
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« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2006, 01:36:05 PM »

Dan


what shocks me is, How could they even find a joint.

We were able to win one out of two with him.


the first start was god awefull, he was so lame. the start I won with him, he never had a harness on him that week. It was nothing but two hours of the horse walkers ( 1 hour morning and night) Twice a day in the cold water hoses for 1 hour a piece. Sweat in the morning with furcin,dmso, and cortisone. And poultice each night.


That was a cool $18+ win that night with the fat cat driving. i swear, by the end of the week you could barely even walk him. I think it was the first time he felt like a horse since you had him. Not sure what happen with him after that. Donnie went back to chicago.

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« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2006, 01:40:11 PM »


Which is I guess the question I am asking.  I have yet to read from any of the news reports of levels, half-lifes, administration guidelines, or any of the other goodies involved in calling a positive.

And I'm sure DailyDaley will correct me. 8)

I haven't seen the details, but the following quote leads me to believe the PA lab has this buttoned down:

"Asked if he thought the test would stand up against court challenges, Dr. Uboh answered quickly. "No doubt," he said. "They can send these tests anywhere in the world for verification." "
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2006, 01:51:46 PM »

*** taking another topic off target with some story about some cheap claimer from 25 years ago.

You're the one who told me to tell you about one of my claimers from 20 years ago so I did.

    A cheap claimer? Not cheap burton unless you call 30K cheap. You never owned a cheap claimer like him during your time as a bustout owner.
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« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2006, 02:14:48 PM »

Another topic derailed by ***.
Tell us about Kiss Em Joe.
FOR THE THOUSANDTH TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2006, 03:12:45 PM »

Nice comment burton before you even know if the man did something wrong or not. That's why you are known as a grandstnd goof.

    More topics about dope and horse dopers.


Here's my first post under this topic which was on topic about burton's comment about juicers using EPO.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2006, 03:14:38 PM »


Now go and tell me about some claimer you won with 25 years ago!

Here's burton's first post under this topic to throw the topic off topic
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2006, 03:24:42 PM »



    Now back to your grandstand goof comments. Go ahead and label guys horse dopers before you even know if the horse was juiced or not. Go to Oakbrook and sit with your other buddy with the last name of Burton and talk that shit with him while he pimps out whores.   


Here's another post asking burton to go back on topic about him saying Robinson is a horse doper because a man's horse won in 46.4. No, he continued to take the thread of topic because he's a grandstand goof. 

     
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« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2006, 03:27:19 PM »

Here's another post asking burton to go back on topic about him saying Robinson is a horse doper because a man's horse won in 46.4. No, he continued to take the thread of topic because he's a grandstand goof. 

     


I hate to raise questions, but there's something to be said about the fact that Bill (his father) returns to the game, and instantly, the horse slices from consistently going in 150.2-150.4 (with a mark of 1:49) to 1:48, 1:47.4, and 1:46.4.

Now, I know that the Big M was very fast in the last two or three weeks of the meet (even moreso than normal), but that was a HUGE reversal.

Obviously, however, until anything is proven, I think the mile should be celebrated.

Best,
EW
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« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2006, 03:34:11 PM »

I hate to raise questions, but there's something to be said about the fact that Bill (his father) returns to the game, and instantly, the horse slices from consistently going in 150.2-150.4 (with a mark of 1:49) to 1:48, 1:47.4, and 1:46.4.

Now, I know that the Big M was very fast in the last two or three weeks of the meet (even moreso than normal), but that was a HUGE reversal.

Obviously, however, until anything is proven, I think the mile should be celebrated.

Best,
EW
EW,
As always, I respect your informed opinion.
But, i don't have to go to the North Pole to know it's cold there.
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« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2006, 03:37:16 PM »

EW,
As always, I respect your informed opinion.
But, i don't have to go to the North Pole to know it's cold there.

I agree.  As I posted earlier, I'm skeptical.

Best,
EW
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« Reply #38 on: August 10, 2006, 03:37:57 PM »

I'm sorry to say that Stan has forgotten more than you'll ever know.  He's definitely not in his prime, but there's much that can be learned from the wisdom of people like this.

Plus, as an added bonus, he types in lowercase letters.   Cheesy

Best,
EW

           What did Stan ever do for harness racing ? In one of his last articles in Hoof Beats he blabs about being a race secretary at Sportsmens Park a hundred years ago and also picks on S. Manzi who wants to see the sport cleaned up.


 Stan should be in the old folks home with a butt plug in his mouth.


 Bobby
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« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2006, 03:44:43 PM »

           What did Stan ever do for harness racing ? In one of his last articles in Hoof Beats he blabs about being a race secretary at Sportsmens Park a hundred years ago and also picks on S. Manzi who wants to see the sport cleaned up.

 Stan should be in the old folks home with a butt plug in his mouth.

 Bobby

What did Stan ever do for harness racing?  Oh bother...

Best,
EW
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« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2006, 03:47:45 PM »



 You mean don't bother.




 Bobby
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« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2006, 03:49:03 PM »

What did Stan ever do for harness racing?  Oh bother...

Best,
EW
The only thing Stan's done lately for harness racing is left a pile of used Depends in the M1 pressbox.  The guy wouldn't know modern chemical warfare if Rucker were pissing on him as he was pinned down by Team Robinson (of Canada).  Oh bother...?  LOL.   trotter  TC
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« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2006, 03:52:37 PM »

The only thing Stan's done lately for harness racing is left a pile of used Depends in the M1 pressbox.  The guy wouldn't know modern chemical warfare if Rucker were pissing on him as he was pinned down by Team Robinson (of Canada).  Oh bother...?  LOL.   trotter  TC

Bobby didn't say "lately."  He said "ever" -- and that's just silly.

"Lately" is definitely up for debate.

Best,
EW
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2006, 03:52:43 PM »

I hate to raise questions, but there's something to be said about the fact that Bill (his father) returns to the game, and instantly, the horse slices from consistently going in 150.2-150.4 (with a mark of 1:49) to 1:48, 1:47.4, and 1:46.4.

Now, I know that the Big M was very fast in the last two or three weeks of the meet (even moreso than normal), but that was a HUGE reversal.

Obviously, however, until anything is proven, I think the mile should be celebrated.

Best,
EW

It's like this Edward. Some guys are great trainers and can get more out of horses then others. The conditions were ideal for that kind of mile. I thought the 1:51 mile in the Hambo was pretty fast but nobody is saying a word about the trainer who won that race.
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« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2006, 03:59:47 PM »

Dan Does some of these times have to with track conditions better equipment(bikes) ETC?
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2006, 04:03:30 PM »

It's like this Edward. Some guys are great trainers and can get more out of horses then others. The conditions were ideal for that kind of mile. I thought the 1:51 mile in the Hambo was pretty fast but nobody is saying a word about the trainer who won that race.

He did it off the pace, with strong fractions set.  That's a big difference from quarter moving and going down the chute, IMO.

Also, there was no trainer change.

Best,
EW
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« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2006, 04:09:42 PM »

Dan Does some of these times have to with track conditions better equipment(bikes) ETC?
What would Dan know about today's bikes or FFA horses, or the Meadowlands??
I'd like to know what NJ Paul thinks about the 1:46 4/5 mile??
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« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2006, 04:11:01 PM »

Dan Does some of these times have to with track conditions better equipment(bikes) ETC?

Obviously, these things play a role.  But, Holborn Hanover improved 4 seconds in three starts.  Some of it was the fast track, but that's quite the improvement.

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EW
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« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2006, 04:14:06 PM »

Maybe they figured somthing out on him. I've seen some changes make big diferences. SGOT NOT EPO? light bulb
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« Reply #49 on: August 10, 2006, 04:16:09 PM »

Maybe they figured somthing out on him. I've seen some changes make big diferences. SGOT NOT EPO? light bulb

There's no doubt something could've been figured out.  Hence why I said the mile should be celebrated.

I just look at it skeptically, because these horses just aren't quitting anymore.  26 final panel off a 1:20.4?!?

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EW
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #50 on: August 10, 2006, 04:17:43 PM »

What would Dan know about today's bikes or FFA horses, or the Meadowlands??
I'd like to know what NJ Paul thinks about the 1:46 4/5 mile??

Here's burton trying to go off topic again. Dan knows 800 times more then a grandstand goof like burton.
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« Reply #51 on: August 10, 2006, 09:02:10 PM »

dan whats the fastest horse u ever owned? 51  52 53 54 55 56 U tell us.
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« Reply #52 on: August 10, 2006, 09:14:28 PM »

dan whats the fastest horse u ever owned? 51  52 53 54 55 56 U tell us.
Fatcat, since we all have an inkling as to your real, non-TROLL ID, what's the fastest horse Andy Robinson ever trained before all those trips to St. Louis and the "magic vet" started.  I'll sat 2:02 on a fast trrack at FP.  Am I close ?   trotter  TC

NEEDLES AND SYRINGES / SYRINGES AND NEEDLES - SOME CAN'T TRAIN RIN TIN TIN TO BURY A BONE W/O THEM...ANNNNNDEEEEEEEEE !
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« Reply #53 on: August 10, 2006, 09:17:35 PM »

How bout u put your money were your mouth is TC if im not ANDEEEEEEEEE you get off barn to wire if i am I get off. I would bet  [ss]but u wouldn't pay up.
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« Reply #54 on: August 10, 2006, 09:30:15 PM »

How bout u put your money were your mouth is TC if im not ANDEEEEEEEEE you get off barn to wire if i am I get off. I would bet  [ss]but u wouldn't pay up.
1. Learn to read HILLBILLY - no one accused you of being him.
2. I always pay up.
3. use both spell and grammar check - INBRED
4. blow the "smellycat" - LOL

 trotter  TC
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« Reply #55 on: August 10, 2006, 10:05:35 PM »

Who listens to Stan Bergstein, the lunchroom at the nursing home.  This jerk should lay in his hospital bed with a bed pan strapped to his ass.  He has been nothing but bad news for harness racing and still don't know his ass from a hole in the ground.  Stan is an embarassment every time he opens his big mouth.  he should get *** slapped with a frozen salami.
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« Reply #56 on: August 11, 2006, 01:08:39 AM »

You're the one who told me to tell you about one of my claimers from 20 years ago so I did.

    A cheap claimer? Not cheap burton unless you call 30K cheap. You never owned a cheap claimer like him during your time as a bustout owner.

  DAN TO BAD THEASE SORRY LOSERS DON'T KNOW THAT A HORSE LIKE THAT BACK THEN OR NOW,IS CALLED CLASS.A CLASS HORSE WILL ALWAYS GIVE IT HIS ALL KNOW MATTER WHAT PROBLEMS THEY HAVE !!!!!!!!!!CLASS SOMETING SOME OF THEASE GUYS DONOT HAVE. LOVE TO TROT
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« Reply #57 on: August 11, 2006, 07:40:30 PM »

What would Dan know about today's bikes or FFA horses, or the Meadowlands??
I'd like to know what NJ Paul thinks about the 1:46 4/5 mile??

I think the following:

(1) The race was held in the mid summer mid day heat. Remember, theses horses usually race at night, when all other things being equal, times will be slower than they are in daylight racing.

(2) Meadowlands management makes the track as fast as possible for Hambletonian day. The surface is usually scraped to a bare minimum depth.

(3) BILL ROBINSON IS BACK!!!  Grin
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casemania
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« Reply #58 on: August 11, 2006, 07:45:25 PM »

I think the following:

(1) The race was held in the mid summer mid day heat. Remember, theses horses usually race at night, when all other things being equal, times will be slower than they are in daylight racing.

(2) Meadowlands management makes the track as fast as possible for Hambletonian day. The surface is usually scraped to a bare minimum depth.

(3) BILL ROBINSON IS BACK!!!  Grin
YEAH BAYBEE!! (ON #3!) HERES HOPING THE "BRUISER" BLASTS THESE SOMEBITCHES TO THE MOON SO I CAN KEEP GOING TO THE WINDOW!!!!! dollar dollar
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