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Author Topic: Should Elims (or Prep) races be non-betting events  (Read 756 times)
bettor2belucky
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« on: July 31, 2006, 08:22:00 PM »

I'm throwing this topic out there because how the hell does someone handicap the mindset of  trainer when he just has got to finish in the top 5 or 6?

We all know and have seen this happen time and time again..........

What do you guys think?
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2006, 08:24:36 PM »

I'm throwing this topic out there because how the hell does someone handicap the mindset of  trainer when he just has got to finish in the top 5 or 6?

We all know and have seen this happen time and time again..........

What do you guys think?

Let horses in on an average ranking of lifetime and yearly earnings, to the point that only horses that "hit the ticket" advance to the final.

Example: 14 horses enter -- top 7 in earnings get in, last three (or four with super) get into the final.

Just my opinion.

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EW
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njhorseman
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« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2006, 08:35:48 PM »

I'm throwing this topic out there because how the hell does someone handicap the mindset of  trainer when he just has got to finish in the top 5 or 6?

We all know and have seen this happen time and time again..........

What do you guys think?

My philosophy is, and always has been, "No one is holding a gun to my head and making me bet." If you know the trainers and their tendencies, eliminations can be really good betting races.
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radarronny
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« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2006, 10:25:28 PM »

Elims should absolutely be non-bettors! The first half of the Breeders Crown card was unbettable..even with 100 grand elims and winner choosing post!
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2006, 10:28:33 PM »

My philosophy is, and always has been, "No one is holding a gun to my head and making me bet." If you know the trainers and their tendencies, eliminations can be really good betting races.

I don't have a problem with them, and mostly just sit and watch.  It does, however, bug me that I miss out on a more legitimate wagering opportunity.

Best,
EW
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pacemaker
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« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2006, 10:41:06 PM »

I'm throwing this topic out there because how the hell does someone handicap the mindset of  trainer when he just has got to finish in the top 5 or 6?

We all know and have seen this happen time and time again..........

What do you guys think?
After Saturday was thinking of posting the same question.
I would like to see them non- betting , but like njhorseman said nobody's holding a gun to your head to bet them.
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2006, 11:45:16 PM »

After Saturday was thinking of posting the same question.
I would like to see them non- betting , but like njhorseman said nobody's holding a gun to your head to bet them.
I don't have a problem with them, and mostly just sit and watch.  It does, however, bug me that I miss out on a more legitimate wagering opportunity.

Best,
EW
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off stride
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« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2006, 11:52:48 PM »

for the most sake, i agree with paul...they are non wagering events ..when the goal is top 5 , you know they just want to get a piece...now if an elim means top 3 or even top 2..they usually have to race all out to make the final and then its a good bet..
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Jeepers
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« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2006, 01:45:01 AM »

Yes, skip the elims (though if you play only one track, as I tend to do, and you're there to BET on those 12 or 13 races, that's easier said than done - cuz who don't want action?)

In the best follow-up tradition, one can also use the failed horse from his elim to make money in the final. For example, My Boy David (rabidly overdriven in the elim, backed by those of us who wanted an easy tri or super), took no money in the final. But he was too good a horse to be ignored.

And the result of the Am Nat final was not beyond the handicapping pale - and look what it paid. Pissed at meself I didn't get it all.

Buyer beware, and that's fair. It's gambling in the purest sense. And, what are the track economics of making elims non-betting races? No track would do that.

Screw the trotters, though. Not worth the heartache.
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2006, 01:46:39 AM »


Buyer beware, and that's fair. It's gambling in the purest sense. And, what are the track economics of making elims non-betting races? No track would do that.

I don't think a track would lose anything...you just card the regular overnights in their place as "betting races."

Personally, however, I'd rather see them change the way elims work.

Best,
EW
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getemup
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« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2006, 12:10:30 PM »

Now a days they have been letting the winners choose their posts. Why don't they let the winners choose first, then the second place finishers and so on. The horses just trying to make the final are going to be comprimised with bad posts thus making everyone try to race as good as they can!
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Fiddler
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« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2006, 01:13:12 PM »

I think they should handle the elims like the quarter horse guys do, by time.  If you have 2 - 10 horse elims, instead of saying the top 5 finishers in each race get in, go with the top 10 finishing times regardless of which race it is. 

You sometines wind up with 7 or 8 out of one race and 2 or 3 out of the other, but, for the most part, all 20 horses are going all out to qualify.
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2006, 01:34:03 PM »

I think they should handle the elims like the quarter horse guys do, by time.  If you have 2 - 10 horse elims, instead of saying the top 5 finishers in each race get in, go with the top 10 finishing times regardless of which race it is. 

You sometines wind up with 7 or 8 out of one race and 2 or 3 out of the other, but, for the most part, all 20 horses are going all out to qualify.

I've argued for this before.  IMO, still the fairest way for the bettors.  Horsemen, however (and I can't fault them), want to use as little horse as possible.  Personally, I think that competitive racing and handle should win out, but many people won't agree with me.  Ask the NASCAR drivers how they like restrictor plates -- BUT, it does make for great racing...and THAT is why they stay on the cars.

Best,
EW
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njhorseman
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« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2006, 01:39:17 PM »

I think they should handle the elims like the quarter horse guys do, by time.  If you have 2 - 10 horse elims, instead of saying the top 5 finishers in each race get in, go with the top 10 finishing times regardless of which race it is. 

You sometines wind up with 7 or 8 out of one race and 2 or 3 out of the other, but, for the most part, all 20 horses are going all out to qualify.

I don't think time is a good measure for Standardbreds, where it is often governed by fractions cut in the first half by horses that may not be around at the wire.

Quarterhorse racing is a world apart... and time really makes sense there.
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