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Author Topic: Bad drives  (Read 1372 times)
Honest1
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« on: July 31, 2006, 01:58:46 PM »

Terry, In my years in the business I don't understand where the term Bad Drive came from.If you trust the guy you have driving for you, There should be an element of trust involved. Its not a bad drive it maybe a timing issue(getting boxed in and shuffled back) but with so many things that can happen in a race I have to say things didnt go our way tonight. But I never call it a bad drive!  Joe
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2006, 02:02:21 PM »

Terry, In my years in the business I don't understand where the term Bad Drive came from.If you trust the guy you have driving for you, There should be an element of trust involved. Its not a bad drive it maybe a timing issue(getting boxed in and shuffled back) but with so many things that can happen in a race I have to say things didnt go our way tonight. But I never call it a bad drive!  Joe

IMO, a bad drive comes from a bad decision that hurts the horses chances.  It happens every day, but I really don't see the point in ragging on the drivers -- you can't make every split second decision correctly.

Best,
EW
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2006, 02:08:48 PM »

IMO, a bad drive comes from a bad decision that hurts the horses chances.  It happens every day, but I really don't see the point in ragging on the drivers -- you can't make every split second decision correctly.

Best,
EW

I think we are going off Phil's topic talking about bad drives. Why not start up a new topic if you wnat to talk about " bad drives " or total "stiff jobs" such as how Tony Morgan totally stiffed " Kiss Em Joe " at 1-2 off the rail at Maywood back in 95. 
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Terry Hunt
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« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2006, 04:00:09 PM »

Joe,

I realize that in the process of running for election you don't want to alienate any potential voters...but come on!

I am not saying that driving a horse is easy.  Often the strategy going into a race gets changed when the spring the gate.  A driver must make decisions wtih split second timing while surrounded by a small herd of 1,000 pound horses going over 30 mph and very little margin for error.

I have nothing but respect for drivers, and I agree that when you put a driver up you are showing that you have confidence in their ability.

But to say you don't understand where the term "bad drive" came from is just not realistic.  There are bad drives.  They happen every night at every race track.  Ask any driver if he ever had a bad drive.  If they are honest with you, the answer won't be no.  There is a difference between a bad drive and a bad driver.
 
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Terry Hunt
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« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2006, 07:27:14 PM »

If you trust the guy you have driving for you, There should be an element of trust involved. Its not a bad drive it maybe a timing issue(getting boxed in and shuffled back) but with so many things that can happen in a race I have to say things didnt go our way tonight. But I never call it a bad drive! Joe
I asgrre with Honest1


I have said it before, I'll say it again:
If you can do better get your ass out there and drive.

If not shut the hell up
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2006, 07:30:36 PM »

I have said it before, I'll say it again:
If you can do better get your ass out there and drive.

If not shut the hell up

Along the same lines: Phil Mickelson choked in the US Open -- can I not state this fact because I can only shoot about 80-85?  NO.

You don't have to be a driver to notice an error.  I don't think people should be quite as critical as many are, but it's just silly to say that people in the stands shouldn't be able to point out when someone makes a mistake...

Best,
EW
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Honest1
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« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2006, 10:02:29 PM »

Terry, this has nothing to do with the election. You can ask Dean or Dave or Tim or Mike or Dale or Ron when they drive for me I have never chastised them for a mistake or how the race went.I dont think anyone of them has ever given me a (BAD) drive. The horse may have been on a line or sick or they may have gotten run into, Things do happen. Each and everydrive I ask them how the horse was and what they think would help them. Then I always Thank them. The way I look at it is they are risking their life for a couple of hundred bucks!
                                                            Joe
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mackfan
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« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2006, 11:06:40 PM »

I think that there can be both. Some drivers make a bad decision during a race and will often let you know afterwards that they should have done things differently.These can be excused and you hope next time they will do things differently. There are also times when you can sit and watch a race and wonder what the hell a driver was thinking making a certain move. One  thing that always bugs me is the longshot that leaves from the outside, gets parked the mile, gets in everyones way and backs through the field messing up the whole race.I do respect most drivers and I know I couldn't probably drive much better if at all than most, but hey, i'm 5'9'' 270 lbs. so I'm not going to get many catch drives.
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Perry Mutuel
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« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2006, 01:52:00 AM »

Ten horses.  Ten drivers.  One winner.  Simple math.
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HOOFHEARTED
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« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2006, 05:22:50 AM »

WHEN WE HIRE SOMEONE TO DRIVE THEY HAVE CONTROL OF EVERYTHING. TO SAY WE GOT A BAD DRIVE BY ANY OF THESE GUYS IS WRONG. THEY MAY NOT HAVE WENT TO THE FRONT LIKE WE WANTED,DIDN'T COME FIRST OVER,OR JUST PAINTED THE RAIL. ALL THE DRIVES WE GET,IS WHAT THE THE RACE ENABLES THEM TO GET FOR THE OWNER AND THE TRAINERS, WE WOULD LIKE TO WIN EVERY RACE BUT WE CANT. BAD DRIVES!! CANT SAY THERE ARE TO MANY OUT THERE GOOD DRIVES,GOOD MOVES A LOT OF THEM. WE CAN TALK BAD ABOUT THESE GUYS, BUT I THINK MOST OF THEM TRY TO MAKE MONEY FOR THE PEOPLE THEY WORK FOR EVERY TIME
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Michigan Dale
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« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2006, 07:59:46 AM »

'Good drives,' 'Bad Drives,'.....its all in the eyes of the beholder and often directly connected to the way somebody bets.   If every driver made all the right decisions, we'd have a total dead heat for win...like was said by a previous poster, 10 starters, 10 drivers, one winner = simple math.   A 'bad driver' can sometimes (albeit rarely) win a race.   Does that make them a 'good driver' in that event while all the others suddenly became 'bad?'   I wouldn't think so.  Things happen out there and its soooo darn easy to watch a race on the tube or even live and think you know exactly what is taking place. Many times I've had to enlighten some of the big mouths at my favorite wagering spots as to the nuances of a race.  Quick example - there are those that think on 1/2 mile tracks that you always must pull and race to the outside to win a race instead of understanding the benefit of a ground saving trip using the low road.   Some wouldn't understand what 'saving the horse' for the stretch-drive is all about if it was to save their tainted soul.  Its easy to second guess, to be an armchair driver much akin to an armchair quarterback.   Hey, I've felt stiffed too, and over the years have thought one thing or another about the way the driver handled a situation but in most cases everybody wants the same thing - to race well and hopefully cross the finish line first and in the real world there can only be one winner unless of course its a 10 horse dead-heat.  Some drivers have great in the money percentages while not winning very often.   They're always around at the end and don't abuse the horse.   
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off stride
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« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2006, 08:36:36 AM »

10 horses ..10 drivers ..simple math ..perhaps that is why in nascar ..second place is referred to as...the first loser position..
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Terry Hunt
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« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2006, 08:56:58 AM »

Joe,

Tiger Woods is a great golfer...sometimes he hits it out of bounds.
Michael Jordan was a great basketball player...once in while he shot an airball.
Dave Magee is a great driver...you fill in the rest.

The fact is that people make mistakes, and drivers are people.  Despite their very best efforts, the occasional bad drive is going to happen.  

Although this thread has produced some interesting discussion, you took my commentary out of context.  I mentioned bad drives as a matter of fact occurrence that a prospective new owner should realize will be part of the game.  

I also mentioned bad draws.  Applying that same logic, there is no such thing as a bad draw either because occasionally someone wins from what would ordinarily be considered a disadvantageous post.

One final point.  I think that drivers possess a rare combination of skills, that they ply their trade in pressure packed (and potentially dangerous) situations, and they deserve the respect that they have earned.  But if there is no such thing as a "bad drive" that would make the converse true as well, and I simply don't believe that.  Over the years I have personally been the beneficiary of more than my fair share of what I thought were "great drives".
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Terry Hunt
Honest1
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« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2006, 09:58:51 AM »

Terry, I have to agree, its just the term "Bad" gives the impression of some misdeeds. I have had horses locked in cant get out and end up 4 th full of pace, but if they had pulled 1st up they prob would have ended up 7th or 8th. That is not construed as a "Bad Drive" in my way of thinking. I prefer to use one or two drivers so they have some memory of how they are.
Now some of the patrons who have a bet on that situation would say"What the hell was he thinking, That was a bad drive" While the owner trainer and driver all know better. True?      Joe 
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2006, 12:02:12 PM »

If every driver made all the right decisions, we'd have a total dead heat for win...like was said by a previous poster, 10 starters, 10 drivers, one winner = simple math.

This would be true if the horses didn't have differing stamina and speed.  It's quite possible (and actually likely) that a perfectly run race would have no deadheats at all.  In fact, I would say that there are several races on each card where -- on the surface -- each driver makes the correct decisions.

Best,
EW
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off stride
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« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2006, 12:06:21 PM »

the problem with most of the so called 'bad drives' comes from most drivers lack of reading skills
if they would be able to read the script that they are handed before every race ..every thing would come out hunky dorie
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