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Author Topic: best hop in racing,”  (Read 457 times)
clockerbob
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« on: August 22, 2014, 10:39:08 AM »

subject of Lasix reared its ugly head and Dr. Rick Arthur, the state’s equine medical director, gave a report on the history of Lasix and why it’s used. Lasix is used to prevent pulmonary bleeding in racehorses. But the Jockey Club wants to ban race day use, based on the theory that it is a performance-enhancing medication. There’s also a move to bring all states and racing jurisdictions in line with all medication uses with a National Uniform Medication Program. Arthur angered Alan Balch, executive director of the California Thoroughbred Trainers, by saying legendary trainer Farrell Jones once told him Lasix was the “best hop in racing,” meaning it acted as a performance enhancer for horses. Balch loudly questioned the quote, asking Arthur if that ever was a published comment. Arthur said he was a student veterinarian, and Jones made the comment to him privately. Jones, the father of Gary Jones and grandfather of Marty Jones, won a record 11 training titles at Del Mar.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/aug/21/pacific-classic-paddock-schoolers/
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HarnessFanDE
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« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2014, 10:50:31 AM »

I guess Advil is a performance enhancer too.....If it gets rid of your headache I guess it theoretically enables you to perform more efficiently so if you went out and played baseball that night and hit a home run I guess you should test positive and be suspended if you were a major leaguer......That's the same reach made when they label Lasix a performance enhancer.....It makes you healthier and thus enhances performance......I also hate when people attribute quotes to dead people who obviously for good reason can no longer speak for themselves to verify or refute what has been "attributed" to them
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clockerbob
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« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2014, 11:20:59 AM »

I've seen the reversal of performance of horses who finished last or were eased then
put on Lasix for the first time
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2014, 11:35:13 AM »

I guess Advil is a performance enhancer too.....If it gets rid of your headache I guess it theoretically enables you to perform more efficiently so if you went out and played baseball that night and hit a home run I guess you should test positive and be suspended if you were a major leaguer......That's the same reach made when they label Lasix a performance enhancer.....It makes you healthier and thus enhances performance

So what if you needled up a horse with cobra venom so it would no longer feel all the pain in its knees, and could perform back to his old level? Performance enhancer, or not?

How about a good strong generalized pain killer, like morphine, allowing the horse to perform back to its old level? Performance enhancer, or not?

If some drug allows a horse to run through the pain signals the body send to the brain that say "take it easy here, this body is injured", or prevents some physiological effect that would occur if that drug was not administered, is that not enhancing performance beyond what that undrugged horse's body would naturally allow?
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HarnessFanDE
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« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2014, 08:33:12 AM »

So what if you needled up a horse with cobra venom so it would no longer feel all the pain in its knees, and could perform back to his old level? Performance enhancer, or not?

How about a good strong generalized pain killer, like morphine, allowing the horse to perform back to its old level? Performance enhancer, or not?

If some drug allows a horse to run through the pain signals the body send to the brain that say "take it easy here, this body is injured", or prevents some physiological effect that would occur if that drug was not administered, is that not enhancing performance beyond what that undrugged horse's body would naturally allow?

Lasix isnt a pain killer and more importantly isn't illegal....cobra venom has no legitimate use in any horse/person and is illegal at any level......other pain killers can be used with the proper withdrawal times.....everything you do to a horse is hopefully performance enhancing or why would you do it?.....you wouldn't do something to your horse that is performance detracting would you? Technically new shoes are performance enhancing......its a very slippery slope labeling everything that is done for the well being of a horse "performance enhancing".....because "technically" everything is
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The Turf Monster
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« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2014, 08:45:53 AM »

At minimum, 90+% of horses aren't bleeders, but 90+% get lasix.  Non-bleeders wouldn't be getting lasix every time out if their trainers didn't view the drug as a performance enhancer.  There's no honest argument to make that lasix isn't a performance enhancer when non-bleeders get it every race too
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2014, 11:12:41 AM »

Lasix isnt a pain killer and more importantly isn't illegal....cobra venom has no legitimate use in any horse/person and is illegal at any level......other pain killers can be used with the proper withdrawal times.....everything you do to a horse is hopefully performance enhancing or why would you do it?

Well yeah doh that was the point in the first place that you disagreed with.

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.....you wouldn't do something to your horse that is performance detracting would you? Technically new shoes are performance enhancing......its a very slippery slope labeling everything that is done for the well being of a horse "performance enhancing".....because "technically" everything is

So if you agree with this, then why did you take exception to clockerbob's post in the first place with "That's the same reach made when they label Lasix a performance enhancer.....It makes you healthier and thus enhances performance...."

Lasix is a performance enhancer, period. If the horse didn't have it, he would be stopping like he was shot on the turn. It helps him perform better than his natural state, which would be running 5f, bleeding, coughing, and stopping.

The only difference between Lasix and the other substances I mentioned is that there was a human decision made that it was "therapeutic" and thus "legal".

Remember when clenbuterol was the scourge of racing and there was a big scandal about its use? Then poof overnight, all of sudden "therapeutic" and "legal". Did the drug change? Did the effect of the drug on horses change? Or how about anabolic steroids. Those were legal for many years ... "therapeutic". Then all of a sudden they weren't. Did the drugs change? Did their effects on horses change? No, of course not.

So when it comes down to it, the only difference between "performance enhancing" race day drugs and legal "therapeutic" race day drugs is that a group of humans got together and decided the one was legal. ALL are used to improve that horse's performance on the track above and beyond how he would run without the drug.  
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Mary Ann
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« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2014, 11:57:27 AM »

Lasix makes a horse lighter; they can lose about 20 lbs. on Lasix and that loss is water or fluids.
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nmslim
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« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2014, 11:58:56 AM »

Bring heroin back!
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2014, 12:56:47 PM »

Bring heroin back!

There ya go, another that was legal, and then wasn't, all with the stroke of a pen.
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HarnessFanDE
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« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2014, 09:17:46 AM »

Well yeah doh that was the point in the first place that you disagreed with.

So if you agree with this, then why did you take exception to clockerbob's post in the first place with "That's the same reach made when they label Lasix a performance enhancer.....It makes you healthier and thus enhances performance...."

Lasix is a performance enhancer, period. If the horse didn't have it, he would be stopping like he was shot on the turn. It helps him perform better than his natural state, which would be running 5f, bleeding, coughing, and stopping.

The only difference between Lasix and the other substances I mentioned is that there was a human decision made that it was "therapeutic" and thus "legal".

Remember when clenbuterol was the scourge of racing and there was a big scandal about its use? Then poof overnight, all of sudden "therapeutic" and "legal". Did the drug change? Did the effect of the drug on horses change? Or how about anabolic steroids. Those were legal for many years ... "therapeutic". Then all of a sudden they weren't. Did the drugs change? Did their effects on horses change? No, of course not.

So when it comes down to it, the only difference between "performance enhancing" race day drugs and legal "therapeutic" race day drugs is that a group of humans got together and decided the one was legal. ALL are used to improve that horse's performance on the track above and beyond how he would run without the drug.  


I never disagreed with anyone.....that's your area of expertise......I said everything you do to your horse is hopefully performance enhancing......just some are legal and some aren't......Vitamins are performance enhancing.....top quality feed is performance enhancing......dental work is performance enhancing......acupuncture can be performance enhancing......keeping your horse on a farm where he can be turned out everyday is performance enhancing (to most horses).......regular vet check ups are performance enhancing......painting everything "performance enhancing" with the same brush is wrong......everything performance enhancing isn't and shouldn't be illegal
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 09:21:26 AM by HarnessFanDE » Report to moderator   Logged

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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2014, 10:38:13 AM »

I never disagreed with anyone

So when you replied to clockerbob's original report about the Jockey Club wanting to ban Lasix "based on the theory that it is a performance-enhancing medication" by giving examples of Advil and then saying labeling Lasix as an enhancer was a "reach", that was not a disagreement, but an agreement?

My mistake, I guess. Usually people don't call someone else's conclusion a "reach" unless they're disagreeing. Or for that matter, even respond to the news item.

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everything performance enhancing isn't and shouldn't be illegal

Based on your examples of turnouts, dental work, etc., yes that's right. Nor should things like antibiotics given to clear up some infection.

But those don't happen on race day. Reasonable people including the industry muckity mucks at the Jockey Club can certainly disagree on drugs that are in the horse's system on race day.
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clockerbob
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« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2014, 11:50:17 AM »

the number of home runs has dropped in MLB anybody know why?
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2014, 12:21:05 PM »

the number of home runs has dropped in MLB anybody know why?

The greedy breeders are churning out fragile "product". This crop is the worst crop ever.

Oh wait ... and the baseball fields are slower than they used to be, too. You wouldn't know it by actual measurable stats, but these players are actually far and away better than players of yore.
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