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Author Topic: No horse shortage at Remington  (Read 491 times)
beobob
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« on: August 20, 2014, 09:04:12 AM »

I always look forward to late summer weeknight racing from Remington Park. Looks like its going to be another fun year to play. 

They don't have huge pools, but with those big fields they get some wacky exotic payouts.  Tonight they have 98 runners in 9 races, tomorrow 91.  I will be $1 exactaing and $.10 superfectaing my way into riches and handicapping immortality, or until I lose $50.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2014, 09:46:39 AM »

I always look forward to late summer weeknight racing from Remington Park. Looks like its going to be another fun year to play.  

They don't have huge pools, but with those big fields they get some wacky exotic payouts.  Tonight they have 98 runners in 9 races, tomorrow 91.  I will be $1 exactaing and $.10 superfectaing my way into riches and handicapping immortality, or until I lose $50.

What draws so many horses? Their purses for open horses aren't any better than AP's. Some worse. What makes so many horsemen eager and willing to run at Remington, while they shun Illinois (and the beautiful track in the NW suburbs) like the plague?

My picks for tonight: $2 on all horses ridden by Glen Murphy.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 09:58:33 AM by honest & balanced terry » Report to moderator   Logged

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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2014, 10:06:31 AM »

What draws so many horses? Their purses for open horses aren't any better than AP's. Some worse. What makes so many horsemen eager and willing to run at Remington, while they shun Illinois (and the beautiful track in the NW suburbs) like the plague?

Real dirt track and nice turf course, all at the same place.

What good are marginally higher purses if your horse doesn't run well on Poly?
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2014, 10:13:30 AM »

Real dirt track and nice turf course, all at the same place.

What good are marginally higher purses if your horse doesn't run well on Poly?

While that's a popular theory, field sizes at other poly tracks never really suffered over the years, so I think we can probably discount that.
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nmslim
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« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2014, 10:19:50 AM »

Also,a cheaper place to do business,without the onus of stifling labor regulations.Also,lower taxes and no unions to pad costs.
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2014, 10:22:12 AM »

While that's a popular theory, field sizes at other poly tracks never really suffered over the years, so I think we can probably discount that.

No, most just run less races per card:

Presque Isle: 8

Golden Gate: 8, sometimes only 7

Del Mar: same as Golden Gate...(sometimes more, I know)

AP only runs 4 days.

Exceptions:
Keeneland could install ground glass and they would oversubscribe for the paltry 6 weeks per year they run.

Woodbine is really the only game in town up that way, with *massive* purses.

Summary: I don't think you can dismiss the idea that horsemen are shunning Poly quite so easily.
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beobob
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« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2014, 10:23:29 AM »

Real dirt track and nice turf course, all at the same place.

What good are marginally higher purses if your horse doesn't run well on Poly?

They must have a good state breeding program, too. 53 of the 98 runners tonight are OK bred.
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The Turf Monster
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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2014, 10:37:58 AM »

I've tried playing it, and there's just too much pool manipulation to enjoy it.  I can live with my odds fluctuating due to money being poured in via ADW at the last second.  I can't live with it when my odds fluctuate at the last second due to a sizable cancellation
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bnlong
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« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2014, 10:53:14 AM »



Exceptions:
Keeneland could install ground glass and they would oversubscribe for the paltry 6 weeks per year they run.

Woodbine is really the only game in town up that way, with *massive* purses.

Summary: I don't think you can dismiss the idea that horsemen are shunning Poly quite so easily.
Woodbine is now talking about changing track surface

 Tapeta or real dirt.
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beobob
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« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2014, 11:00:43 AM »

I've tried playing it, and there's just too much pool manipulation to enjoy it.  I can live with my odds fluctuating due to money being poured in via ADW at the last second.  I can't live with it when my odds fluctuate at the last second due to a sizable cancellation

That's one of the reasons I play mostly exotics there, and small at that.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2014, 01:55:26 PM »

Also,a cheaper place to do business,without the onus of stifling labor regulations.Also,lower taxes and no unions to pad costs.

We have a lot of stifling labor regulations and union issues on the backside of Chicago tracks, do we?

What stifling labor regulations do they NOT have in Oklahoma ... nasty stuff like minimum wages, workmen's comp, green card requirements, etc?
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2014, 01:58:16 PM »

Summary: I don't think you can dismiss the idea that horsemen are shunning Poly quite so easily.

And I don't think it's an idea you can simply say "this here is why".

What's your objective documented proof that it happens in any meaningful amount?
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2014, 01:59:39 PM »

They must have a good state breeding program, too. 53 of the 98 runners tonight are OK bred.

They have huge Oki bred bonuses and additions. But then so do we for IL bred.
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« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2014, 02:32:42 PM »

What's your objective documented proof that it happens in any meaningful amount?

It doesn't exist.

Of course, there is no objective documented proof that trainers *like* Poly, or specifically seek to run on it, so...seems like you are pitching a strawman at me.

I do listen to several horse racing programs over the Internet, with a variety of industry pundits, handicappers and horsemen participating, and the overwhelming consensus is that Poly is a failed experiment that needs to be reversed, industry-wide, ASAP.

That's the best I can do at the moment. Everybody knows I've hated the shit from Day One, so it's not like I can just roll the dice and lie about what I am hearing over the airwaves -- it would be easily refuted by anyone that listens to the same programs I do; these are, for the record: Race Day Las Vegas, Thoroughbred L.A., and Inside Racing with Jason Levin.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2014, 03:21:55 PM »

It doesn't exist.

Of course, there is no objective documented proof that trainers *like* Poly, or specifically seek to run on it, so...seems like you are pitching a strawman at me.

I didn't say they did.

My personal opinion is some don't like it in general, some have "dirt only" horses they will leave behind when they come to a meet like AP, some don't really care one way or another, some are guided by the wishes of their owners and do with those horses as the owners wish, some have horses that do well on poly so they seek poly meets, and some do like it for various reasons.

How many of each and the grand total ... who knows.

Quote
I do listen to several horse racing programs over the Internet, with a variety of industry pundits, handicappers and horsemen participating, and the overwhelming consensus is that Poly is a failed experiment that needs to be reversed, industry-wide, ASAP.

But that doesn't say anything about why horsemen don't bring more horses to AP. And neither do the opinions of "pundits" or "handicappers", who all argue from their own selfish corner.  

From what I have read from various trainers over the years indicates that the anti-poly voices are just plain old loud, as opposed to "overwhelming" from a numeric standpoint.

Quote
That's the best I can do at the moment. Everybody knows I've hated the shit from Day One, so it's not like I can just roll the dice and lie about what I am hearing over the airwaves

You could quite easily hear what you want to hear, however, and conveniently forget anything else. We all do it.

My best guess on why more horsemen and horses don't come to AP: Uncertainty, and a desire to establish themselves sooner rather than later at other tracks/circuits with a more stable future and rosier purse structure going forward. Poly vs dirt a minor factor.

That plus "general horse shortage".
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farquarks
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« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2014, 05:53:03 PM »

My best guess on why more horsemen and horses don't come to AP: Uncertainty, and a desire to establish themselves sooner rather than later at other tracks/circuits with a more stable future and rosier purse structure going forward. Poly vs dirt a minor factor.

That plus "general horse shortage".

BINGO!! This state is so screwed up generally, and the local TB situation/outlook is fraught with uncertainty and trending declines. I can't imagine why any "newbie" owners or trainers would make any IL track a destination. The "established" connections seem to be slowly departing as well. Too many other options. IMO - if anything, AP would be wise to keep the poly and feature turf racing. They will soon be one of the few syn tracks remaining and would at least attract those specialists.
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jrstark
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« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2014, 06:15:41 PM »

Tonight they have 98 runners in 9 races, tomorrow 91.  I will be $1 exactaing and $.10 superfectaing my way into riches and handicapping immortality, or until I lose $50.

Both today and tomorrow 4 of 9 races are for maidens, 3 races are on turf. Today there are 4 restricted to statebreds, but only 1 tomorrow.
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