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Author Topic: Arlington Million attendance debacle  (Read 2907 times)
beobob
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« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2014, 01:28:49 PM »

If the crowd really was as crappy this year as so many claim, there's a problem, because the extra $2 over previous years didn't make up the lost opportunity cost of concessions (or the usual $39 per capita of wagering) for those people who didn't come. And please, don't try to claim it was an issue of what was on the track/in the races, because the notion that counts for anything as far as drawing the Biff and Buff NW suburbs crowd has been pooh-poohed all year long.

People didn't stay away because of the extra $2 (most probably didn't even know it was $2 more until they got to the gate) or because the Million had 7 runners.  Just like the crowd total would not have been significantly higher if it admission was $18 or there were 10 runners in the Million.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2014, 02:06:00 PM »

People didn't stay away because of the extra $2 (most probably didn't even know it was $2 more until they got to the gate) or because the Million had 7 runners.  Just like the crowd total would not have been significantly higher if it admission was $18 or there were 10 runners in the Million.

You seem pretty sure of that. So tell us why they DID stay away, assuming they did.

And if admission price has no impact on attendance, and the quality of the product on display (marquee race or entire card) has no impact on attendance, what does? Both of these factors have definite and proven effects on things like baseball game live attendance, so what makes horse racing different?
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
APCD Dan
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« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2014, 03:21:06 PM »

You seem pretty sure of that. So tell us why they DID stay away, assuming they did.

And if admission price has no impact on attendance, and the quality of the product on display (marquee race or entire card) has no impact on attendance, what does? Both of these factors have definite and proven effects on things like baseball game live attendance, so what makes horse racing different?

A lot of people go just once in awhile to a track and many of them do not know what they are looking at as far as quality of horses or if there is a difference whether there are 5 or 10 horses in a race.  People going to baseball games are pretty knowledgable about what they are seeing and know if it is any good.  That is my shot at the difference.
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Earl Sande
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« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2014, 04:09:53 PM »

There's a term for a $22 admission fee to enter a racetrack ---
HIGHWAY ROBBERY!!
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2014, 04:14:23 PM »

There's a term for a $22 admission fee to enter a racetrack ---
HIGHWAY ROBBERY!!

The price one pays to see a good day of racing like Million Day, or Preakness Day, or any of the other big days that individual tracks put on is peanuts compared to the absolute worst ripoff in that regard, BC Day. (And maybe KY Derby day.)

BC - Just say no.
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
CLOCKERbiggestal
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« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2014, 04:08:10 PM »

The price one pays to see a good day of racing like Million Day, or Preakness Day, or any of the other big days that individual tracks put on is peanuts compared to the absolute worst ripoff in that regard, BC Day. (And maybe KY Derby day.)

BC - Just say no.

The 25 for the bc is a worse value than 22 to watch the million.

Methinks not.

 clocker biggestal
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Kickers beat one-pacers almost every time.
NIATROSS
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« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2014, 08:38:09 PM »

A lot of people go just once in awhile to a track and many of them do not know what they are looking at as far as quality of horses or if there is a difference whether there are 5 or 10 horses in a race.  People going to baseball games are pretty knowledgable about what they are seeing and know if it is any good.  That is my shot at the difference.

im not sure the comment about baseball fans rings true

cub fans have been blowing money for yrs in spite of the facts
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UFO
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« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2014, 10:48:56 PM »

 ?
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bnlong
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« Reply #33 on: August 21, 2014, 11:46:58 AM »

?
? UFO ? really ?  I am worried about you? why so quiet ? I fear that your jet fuel induced headache from the air & water show has progressed into stupor ?

I understand that a nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse or that a still tongue makes a wise head but this is so uncharacteristic of you?

May I suggest that you go out to Catalanos farm for a few hyperbaric chamber treatments to help clear your brain fog.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2014, 02:40:41 PM »

? UFO ? really ?  I am worried about you? why so quiet ?

Another communication problem with our faux pal from across the pond.

You see, ? is well known written Dickensian British idiom for "Whoops! I've got gas. Please pass the Beano".
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
UFO
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« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2014, 11:44:16 PM »

??
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our favorite omen
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« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2014, 09:13:30 AM »

So then, ?? is what?
OFO
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bnlong
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« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2014, 10:08:12 AM »

UFO  have a you got a poorly tumkins? are you speaking welsh?

Seriously If your still a bit dicky and suffering from explosive upswallow  six days past the air & water show its more than just the Irish flu.

You need to seek treatment

 http://www.kimberlyrinker.com/HBOT_Chamber.pdf

 
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2014, 11:37:47 AM »

UFO  have a you got a poorly tumkins? are you speaking welsh?

Pretty sure ? ?? and whatever OFO added are merely variations on the old "bump" routine to keep this thread and discussion of their hero (alter ego?) JO'D's new mortal enemy Tony Perillo at the top of the forum.

bump
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
beobob
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« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2014, 11:38:35 AM »

So then, ?? is what?
OFO

If "?" Is a request for Beano, "??" would probably be a cry for soft absorbent toilet paper - and lots of it.
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UFO
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« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2014, 01:37:18 AM »

Huh
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1st over
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« Reply #41 on: August 25, 2014, 09:21:14 PM »




             maybe jimmy miller or someone in admissions at hawthorne or maywood or balmoral can provide direction on this---does a track still have to pay any kind of head tax   per   admission on track to the local government (Arl Hts, Stickney, Crete, whatever) so   would a public record of the actual paid at the    Million this year be  available that way?

             that said, there is also nothing to prevent a track from overpaying head tax (if it still exists) on a big day to inflate attendance figure    that would be similar to a major investor   buying more corporate   stock at an inflated number to  keep the reported gross of     his      investment artifically high.    maybe the respected APCD Dan   could enlighten us more on this.   He is certainly one of   the most consistently   erudite and enlightening posters   on this site
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2014, 10:21:00 PM »



             maybe jimmy miller or someone in admissions at hawthorne or maywood or balmoral can provide direction on this---does a track still have to pay any kind of head tax   per   admission on track to the local government (Arl Hts, Stickney, Crete, whatever) so   would a public record of the actual paid at the    Million this year be  available that way?

             that said, there is also nothing to prevent a track from overpaying head tax (if it still exists) on a big day to inflate attendance figure    that would be similar to a major investor   buying more corporate   stock at an inflated number to  keep the reported gross of     his      investment artifically high.    maybe the respected APCD Dan   could enlighten us more on this.   He is certainly one of   the most consistently   erudite and enlightening posters   on this site

Thanks, I hope Terry does not see this, he would most certainly correct you on your nice comments.  My guess was 25,000, as opposed to the 31K they announced.  Out of that number, many people have free passes so I do not know what the paid admission was.  I doubt if Jim Miller would be too interested in finding this information for us, but DRF's Marcus Hersh could.  If he looks into it, I would also like to know the handle for Million Day.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #43 on: August 25, 2014, 10:29:47 PM »

Thanks, I hope Terry does not see this, he would most certainly correct you on your nice comments.

Wrong yet again, I did see it and didn't say a thing, until now after you just HAD to double down. But as for "correcting" the comments, no, they stand on their own.

Quote
I doubt if Jim Miller would be too interested in finding this information for us, but DRF's Marcus Hersh could.

As 1st over admitted, they could report whatever they want for tax purposes. After all, I've been told in that past that they regularly underreported the admissions all the rest of the year to avoid taxes, so they've got a little cushion there.

As to whether or not those taxes are still collected, anyone with even just 1/2 an ounce of intellectual curiosity could take some initiative and take a look at the IRBs annual report to see if any admission taxes are reported in that.
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
Earl Sande
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« Reply #44 on: August 26, 2014, 07:09:46 AM »

The head tax is still in the state statute, is it not?
As for recording admissions, they are supposed to have turnstyles in place so they can get an accurate count. I would think they would want that to ensure employee honesty as well as to comply with state law.
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beobob
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« Reply #45 on: August 26, 2014, 07:29:43 AM »

As for recording admissions, they are supposed to have turnstyles in place so they can get an accurate count. I would think they would want that to ensure employee honesty as well as to comply with state law.

The handheld scanners used at the gate are the new turnstyles.  They know to the person what the paid attendance was. 
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beobob
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« Reply #46 on: August 26, 2014, 07:47:14 AM »

I would also like to know the handle for Million Day.

If the Equibase charts are accurate, it looks like it was about $13.5 million.
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beobob
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« Reply #47 on: August 26, 2014, 08:21:41 AM »

As 1st over admitted, they could report whatever they want for tax purposes. After all, I've been told in that past that they regularly underreported the admissions all the rest of the year to avoid taxes, so they've got a little cushion there.

Told by who?  Some guy at the next urinal?  Mr D when you were out on the yacht?

If someone posted here that they had been told that HAW management is involved in an ongoing conspiracy to defraud the govt out of tax revenue, I think you might be asking for a bit of elaboration, or maybe even some evidence.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #48 on: August 26, 2014, 10:41:48 AM »

Told by who? 

A guy who worked at the track.

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If someone posted here that they had been told that HAW management is involved in an ongoing conspiracy to defraud the govt out of tax revenue, I think you might be asking for a bit of elaboration, or maybe even some evidence.

I probably would, but that stops no one from posting such things, so it doesn't stop me either.
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #49 on: August 26, 2014, 01:56:15 PM »

A guy who worked at the track.

I probably would, but that stops no one from posting such things, so it doesn't stop me either.

Beobob, I believe that is the closest anybody has come to nailing down the Terry logic.  He is spinning like a top with that answer.
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