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Author Topic: The USTA wanted suggestions, here you go.  (Read 2173 times)
the DailyDaley
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« on: July 20, 2006, 12:50:32 PM »

In a recent posting on the USTA website they were looking for suggestions or ideas as to what to discuss in their upcoming meeting (actually called a LIE - A- THON).

Since Mr. Robinson is "Getting Back in the Sport" (like he was really out,
yah - sure  Roll Eyes ), why not push Mr. Robinson's buttons a little and refuse him a trainers license. 
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trotter1
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« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2006, 01:03:23 PM »

In a recent posting on the USTA website they were looking for suggestions or ideas as to what to discuss in their upcoming meeting (actually called a LIE - A- THON).

Since Mr. Robinson is "Getting Back in the Sport" (like he was really out,
yah - sure  Roll Eyes ), why not push Mr. Robinson's buttons a little and refuse him a trainers license. 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If he served his time and paid his fine, why would they do that?
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the DailyDaley
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« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2006, 01:14:04 PM »

It's called "Is it in the BEST INTERESTS of Racing".

You are one of those people that think "Bill" only was caught this time.

If Bill worked in a rehab center and was caught giving a patient a lethal injection, served his time, paid his fine, then why not let him go back working in the rehab center, right. Sounds good to me. This is where the problem is.

You get caught  screw ing the public as much as Bill did, you should be DONE, FINISHED, SEE YA.

I would have to guess this guy "TUBED" more than the local Dairy Queen served milk shakes.

Why not let the rat s run the racetrack, sounds good to me.

Next bronchial dilator patient please.

Get Real.  Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: July 20, 2006, 01:15:39 PM by the DailyDaley » Report to moderator   Logged
trotter1
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« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2006, 01:33:57 PM »

It's called "Is it in the BEST INTERESTS of Racing".

You are one of those people that think "Bill" only was caught this time.

If Bill worked in a rehab center and was caught giving a patient a lethal injection, served his time, paid his fine, then why not let him go back working in the rehab center, right. Sounds good to me. This is where the problem is.

You get caught  screw ing the public as much as Bill did, you should be DONE, FINISHED, SEE YA.

I would have to guess this guy "TUBED" more than the local Dairy Queen served milk shakes.

Why not let the rat s run the racetrack, sounds good to me.

Next bronchial dilator patient please.

Get Real.  Roll Eyes

------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sure the guy did tons of wrong stuff.  He paid a $125K fine and served over 2 years.  That was the
LEGAL ruling.  You know--that little thing called the Court System.  Sorry you prefer to make your own
rules.  However, this was agreed to by all parties and therefore he is back.  If you don't like it then what
have you personally done to change the system (i.e. writing to the legislatures to change the law, etc.) or
do you prefer to just do all your writing on this forum.

So, along your lines of thinking.  If you were caught and hit with a DUI, paid your fine (and maybe even served
your time) according to what you just said you should have your drivers license PERMANENTLY revoked and should NEVER be allowed to drive again, right?

After all, think of all the people you could have injured while you were intoxicated.  Even though you paid your
fine and served your time you should be BANNED from ever driving again in your entire life, right?  After all,
if they let you behind a wheel again you MIGHT do it again, right?

If you respond, try not to make it a personal attack and call me names, etc.  Give me your logical reasoning
on this.
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bettor2belucky
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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2006, 04:10:10 PM »

Just for arguements sake ...why not compare it to the Securities Exchange Commission who can pull your license and bar you for life.........


           Bettor
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"A government big enough to give you everything you want,is a government big enough to take away everything you have."  Thomas Jefferson

"I'm the President I can afford better." Barack Hussein Obama
Chi-Town Hustler
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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2006, 04:47:19 PM »

Daley, It is time you realize that the "powers of the business" live by the theory that "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" .
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AlongTheRail
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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2006, 04:47:47 PM »

Just for arguements sake ...why not compare it to the Securities Exchange Commission who can pull your license and bar you for life.........


           Bettor

or Pete Rose, betting on baseball.
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ricco charro
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« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2006, 11:00:20 PM »

I'VE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT DAILEY HATES HORSEMEN. HE NEVER HAS A GOOD THING TO SAY ABOUT THE GAME. HOW DO YOU LIVE THIS WAY DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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the DailyDaley
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« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2006, 08:46:24 AM »

To Trotter 1 and Ricco Charro - Go to the USTA website and take a look at their rules and regulations.

Try Rule 20 found on page 62 rule 7 and 8. This deals with "PAPER TRAINERS".

Does the USTA enforce it.  Shocked No.

Try Rule 21 found on page 65 rules 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8. This deals with "MEDICATION VIOLATIONS". What Bill Robinson agreed to was with the ORC (Ontario Race Commission) not the USTA or CTA (Canada Trotting Association).

The above are not obligated to give Bill a license.

The license is an AGREEMENT stating the RULES will be followed. Not bent, manipulated or reinvented and is revocable.

Does Walter get his license back when he gets out  Wink

To bad Jeffrey Dahmer isn't living, he could watch your kids when he got out of prison.

Do you think Bill was training at the farm  Huh

Do you think he was using Shaun and Brett as Paper Trainers  Roll Eyes

Nah, Bill is too respectable for that.

The problems are SO LARGE, NOBODY has the guts, the integrity, the drive, the knowledge or the desire to HELP. So things stay the same.

The PUBLIC takes it in the ARSE screw day after day after day. Read below. This was written by Ivan Axlerod, a USTA Director. He will probably have to forfeit his seat because of a truthful article.

Statistics show that only 6 percent of bank robbers in California are actually convicted and go to jail. Those are pretty good odds if you are a bank robber, and when you consider the fact that many convicted felons are let out of prison early due to overcrowding, the odds are even better. The punishment needs to fit the crime, or we will never make the progress required to better our communities. 

In another example of possible cheating with no apparent consequences, I was at Hollywood Park earlier this month, and watched a race where the winner was 50-1 and won by eight lengths. Both the trainer and jockey had not won a race this year, and the horse had only one lifetime win prior to this race. Did this result look suspicious? You bet. Have the stewards or Racing Commission investigated this significant form reversal? I cannot answer this question, as California racing rules do not require any information to be provided to the betting public.

I do know that the fans were more than a little upset with this form reversal, yet no information was provided to them.

How has baseball handled these cheating issues? For years, management stuck its head in the sand while players became bigger and bigger, hitting longer and longer home runs. Were the owners or baseball hierarchy suspicious as to what was causing this change in baseball? Crowds expanded and owners made more money, and it seemed that no one was concerned until the government stepped in and baseball could ignore the steroid no longer.

Now players are being looked at very closely, bodies are getting smaller again, and the game is changing. I actually saw someone lay down a bunt last week. I had not seen that for some time. 

Each of the above provides an example of the societal issues we face when there is a lot of money at stake. Some of us feel the need to operate outside the rules, regulations and laws developed by our system in order to gain an unfair advantage. If I am correct, then it becomes the responsibility of the various governing bodies to implement effective policies and procedures and to take strong actions when these rules are violated.

The best example of great implementation of rules and enforcement of these rules is Las Vegas. Most everyone believes that the gaming in Las Vegas is honest, and the casinos have prided themselves in showing all of the ways in which they monitor the gambling action and the actions they take when any type of fraud is found. We believe the gaming is honest, and we believe that the Nevada Gaming Commission and Las Vegas hotel management are protecting us from cheaters.

This belief encourages more gambling because we feel we are being treated fairly, and management is taking the appropriate actions to protect the betting public.       

Now let’s relate the above to harness racing. What stops trainers and drivers from taking an unfair advantage in our business? Is it their lack of knowledge on the use of illegal substances? Is it too complicated to manipulate a race result? Is it their fear that racing officials and racetrack management are taking a close look at every race to insure integrity in our racing?

I do not believe that any of the above stops trainers and drivers from taking unfair advantage at our racing venues. What stops them is personal integrity and, unfortunately, some in our industry do not possess this integrity. We therefore have a situation where a small percentage of our horsemen are looking to take advantage of the rest of us. While the great majority are honest, we have a group in our sport that do not believe anyone is watching, and if they are watching, getting caught will not bring sufficient punishment to result in a behavior change.

The problem is also magnified by the fact that, in most cases, the trainers and drivers that have been found guilty of using illegal substances, form reversals and manipulating race results have been some of the top names in our industry. A trainer winning at a legitimate 20-percent rate is not satisfied with this success and “needs” the success of being a 30-percent winner. A driver helps some others cash a bet by not moving quick enough and gets locked in turning for home. 

Individual racing jurisdictions have begun to take some of the needed actions to address these issues. Recent penalties for violating some of our most important rules and regulations have included long bans from both training and racing. However, I believe we must move faster. We must have all racing jurisdictions and race track managements work together to implement consistent treatment against those that are out to harm our industry.

I recognize that the states control racing in their individual jurisdictions, but with continued dialogue and implementation of new programs between the various states, our ability to make major strides in this area will be enhanced. I want to suggest that the following additional steps be taken at all racing facilities and racing jurisdictions.

1. The industry--including racing jurisdictions, commissions, racetrack management and stewards--must be on top of daily racing and investigate all irregularities. This should include reviews of race films for driver irregularities, unusual betting patterns for trifectas, superfectas and other exotic payoffs and significant form reversals. I am sure that most inquiries will result in no action, and that would be good.

2. Results of these inquiries should be made available to the betting public. The posting of this information will provide additional assurance to our customers that we are watching. While policing our industry, the public must know that we are keeping a close eye on the action and taking appropriate measures when necessary.

3. Racing jurisdictions must take the strongest possible actions against those that violate the rules and regulations imposed to protect the betting public.

4. Cooperation between the various racing jurisdictions must continue to be strengthened through ongoing dialogue and communication.

 The above communication to fans and the betting public should be no different from what is being done today with stewards’ inquiries into the running of a race. In the past, an inquiry into a race would result in either a change in the order of finish, or no change without any explanation by the stewards as to how they came up with their decision. Today, stewards in many racing jurisdictions describe their reasoning for either making a change or leaving the original result stand.

We cannot hide the fact that some within our sport believe that they need an advantage in order to win or believe that no one is watching. We must change this view, and a combination of taking strong punitive action and informing the betting public of what we do is critical to our long-term success. Some racing jurisdictions are beginning to take strong action against cheaters, and I commend them for these decisions. These cheaters have no regard for the rules or the livelihoods of others within the business, and this can no longer be tolerated.

My last conversation with a trainer faced with receiving a substantial racing ban was, “What will I do if I cannot be in racing?” Why didn’t he think of that before he became a cheater?
 
 

 
 
 
 

 

« Last Edit: July 21, 2006, 08:50:56 AM by the DailyDaley » Report to moderator   Logged
njhorseman
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« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2006, 09:17:53 AM »

"Daley:"

You can quote USTA rules until you're blue in the face, but that won't change the fact that they are irrelevant as they only govern racing at non-parimutuel member tracks, and even then only if those tracks are not regulated by a state racing commission. That is spelled out in Rule 1-Mandate.

The states (and provinces in Canada) decide whether to license an individual. Some require the licensee to be in good standing with the USTA, some don't.

The Canada/US issue is also bogus, because for a number of years Standardbred Canada and the USTA have had a reciprocity agreement. Since Robinson is now in good standing in Canada, that is recognized by the USTA, with no need for him (or anyone else in good standing for that matter) to belong to or be licensed by the USTA. And, for your information, there is no longer an organization called the CTA. It was merged into Standardbred Canada years ago.

While no regualtory authority is obligated to license anyone, Robinson was party to an agreement which called for him to serve a suspension and pay a fine. As he has fulfilled his end of the agreement, the authorities are fulfilling theirs. It's not as if his license was revoked or indefinitely suspended. He agreed to a specific sentence and served it.

« Last Edit: July 21, 2006, 09:20:24 AM by njhorseman » Report to moderator   Logged
Chi-Town Hustler
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« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2006, 09:19:01 AM »

He had the125k to pay the fines ,so he must be doing something right!
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the DailyDaley
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« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2006, 09:27:14 AM »

After winning about $60 million in purses (lifetime or more and not counting his training bills) even if it is Canuck, he might have had enough. Just maybe.
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Chi-Town Hustler
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« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2006, 09:39:30 AM »

Here is a question one may ask.Why is it when you buy a car or make a bank deposit in cash over 10k,you have to provide a source of the money,but when you claim a horse,you can drop 50-100k in cash on the table and no bats an eyelash? I claimed a horse for 18k with 5&10 dollar bills and the only thing the judges gripped about was the time it took to count it!
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the DailyDaley
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« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2006, 09:52:05 AM »

You took the bait NJ, just like I wanted. I am WELL AWARE of the FAIR ACTIVITIES and how the USTA wants to represent themselves.

Then what good is having a USTA license  Roll Eyes

What purpose does it serve  Huh

Why have SIS ! SUPPOSEDLY to look at Parimutiuel Tracks and follow their activities, training facilities, etc. If the USTA wants to govern fairs, then so be it.

Stay out of PARIMUTUEL RACING PERIOD. Let the USTA website cover the FAIRS.
This is what they want, so be it.

Again I ask, when was the last time the USTA revoked a license for INFRACTIONS.

All they do is revoke it for lack of payment or a bad check.

Why do bikes need to have a USTA stamp of approval! Why do drivers colors need to be approved by the USTA! Why do training centers need USTA approval!

It is called FREE CASH. They want all the income, but NONE OF THE RESPONSIBILITY.

JUST GIVE ME THE MONEY.  dollar dollar dollar
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ricco charro
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« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2006, 01:18:13 PM »

I HAVE SEEN THE USTA REVOKE A LICENSE.THE THING IS AS NJ SAID THEY DONT GOVERN JURISDICTIONS, IF THAT STATE IS WILLING TO LICENSE SOMEONE WITHOUT HAVING A USTA LICENSE THATS THEIR BUSINESS AND IT HAPPENS BELIEVE ME. DAILY YOUR CORRECT ABOUT THE USTA,THEY SHOULD FOCUS ON NON PARI MUTUAL AFFAIRS BECAUSE WHEN PUSH COMES TO SHOVE THEY HAVE NO SAY OR VERY LITTLE. AS FAR AS CLEANING UP THE SPORT VERY HARD TO DO WHEN MOST JURISDICTIONS CAN'T AGREE ON COMMON RULES AND IT'S BEEN CORRUPT TO SOME EXTENT FOREVER.IF NFL PLAYERS DID'NT MAKE MILLIONS THEY WOULD BE GAMBLIN THEIR ASSES OFF IN VEGAS  AND FIXIN GAMES . NO DIFFERENT THAN HORSEMEN DO TO SURVIVE INOUR GAME. DALY I DON'T THINK YOU EVER HAD TO EAT OFF WHATYOUR HORSES MADE OR PAY THE RENT OR BUY X-MAS GIFTS FOR YOUR KIDS OR SURVIVE. WALK A MILE IN MY SHOES THEN TALK
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the DailyDaley
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« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2006, 01:40:33 PM »

Ricco:  If you are as truthful as you seem (I am going to assume this), then you should be thankful for "KNOWLEDGEABLE PEOPLE like me TRYING to HELP the LITTLE GUY" meaning YOU.

Again, why race against the bottle Huh  As Jules Siegel said in a previous USTA article, people (meaning other horsemen) need to come forward to PURGE the sport of the crooks. The commissions are not going to do it, the "USTA DEFINITELY ISN'T" and track management really doesn't care as long as the pools are full of suckers money.

There are 2 suckers in the sport now, dude the wagering public and the "OTHER HORSEMEN" who fill the box hoping to run 5th.

This is what I am trying to accomplish. Get the rat s out of management, race commissions and definitely the USTA from having any voice in PARI-MUTUEL RACING.

What the crooks do effects EVERYBODY, EVERYDAY. I spoke to Joe Thompson at Winbak Farms recently. He agrees. The "BOTTLE FEEDERS" need to go !

But he also needs the "BOTTLE FEEDERS OWNERS" to buy his babies. So he is forced to keep silent.

It is a vicious circle, one that may be coming to an end.

If I don't keep BANGING the DRUM for the little guy, who will. The Brett Pellings, Daley, Robinson. These guys need you, the suckers.

That is why you get the TOKEN BONE now and then. You get the purse, they cash the tickets. They know when you are live.

geezer Unfortunately, YOU DON'T.

Think about it. I am on your side. 
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trotter1
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« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2006, 01:43:29 PM »

Here is a question one may ask.Why is it when you buy a car or make a bank deposit in cash over 10k,you have to provide a source of the money,but when you claim a horse,you can drop 50-100k in cash on the table and no bats an eyelash? I claimed a horse for 18k with 5&10 dollar bills and the only thing the judges gripped about was the time it took to count it!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When you make a cash bank deposit over 10K (I believe it's now 5K) a form is filled out stating it was made
in Cash.  You do not have to provide a source of the money.  If it helps slow down the drug trade somewhat
I'm all for it.  I never heard of this requirment when buying a car.

If you really claimed a horse with $5/$10 dollar bills my first questions is WHY?  Were you pissed off at
the racing office?  You would have to go through extra effort just to GET $18,000 in $5's and $10's from
the bank.  Furthermore, how do you know that the track didn't send some type of notice to the IRS
stating you made an $18,000 cash deposit into their account?  You're not always told everything
that goes on behind the scenes.
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Evan Sabove
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« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2006, 02:53:39 PM »

There could not be a program printed at any race track in North America with out the USTA.  There would not be racing as we know it period, with out the resources from the USTA.

I agree that they should stay out of the rule making and enforcement business, but to say horsemen should not be members is unfathomable.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2006, 04:24:10 PM »

You took the bait NJ, just like I wanted. I am WELL AWARE of the FAIR ACTIVITIES and how the USTA wants to represent themselves.

Then what good is having a USTA license  Roll Eyes

What purpose does it serve  Huh

Why have SIS ! SUPPOSEDLY to look at Parimutiuel Tracks and follow their activities, training facilities, etc. If the USTA wants to govern fairs, then so be it.

Stay out of PARIMUTUEL RACING PERIOD. Let the USTA website cover the FAIRS.
This is what they want, so be it.

Again I ask, when was the last time the USTA revoked a license for INFRACTIONS.

All they do is revoke it for lack of payment or a bad check.

Why do bikes need to have a USTA stamp of approval! Why do drivers colors need to be approved by the USTA! Why do training centers need USTA approval!

It is called FREE CASH. They want all the income, but NONE OF THE RESPONSIBILITY.

JUST GIVE ME THE MONEY.  dollar dollar dollar

Who ever said a USTA license is worth anything?  Not me.

The individual states govern parimututel racetracks. That's the law. The USTA can only do as much as the states permit.

It's not that they don't want the responsibility...they can't have it, because state laws won't allow it.




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Chi-Town Hustler
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« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2006, 04:31:28 PM »

Trotter, I took the shoebox up to the judges the way my owner brought it to me.
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the DailyDaley
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« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2006, 11:09:21 PM »

Then maybe the USTA should not call them an "OWNERS LICENSE" dude

Then maybe the USTA should not call them a "DRIVERS LICENSE" light bulb

and of course we would not have a "TRAINERS LICENSE" either geezer

Think about it Roll Eyes

Failure to comply with the renewal of membership and/or driver/trainer license may result in further action taken by the United States Trotting Association. thumbs down

What can they do if you don't have a license Undecided

They don't do anything when you do have one Shocked
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Evan Sabove
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« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2006, 12:04:39 AM »

You are arguing a mute point.  There are also several horsemen who are racing who have been denied a USTA "license."  Symantecs are not the problem.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2006, 10:15:08 AM »

Then maybe the USTA should not call them an "OWNERS LICENSE" dude

Then maybe the USTA should not call them a "DRIVERS LICENSE" light bulb

and of course we would not have a "TRAINERS LICENSE" either geezer

Think about it Roll Eyes

Failure to comply with the renewal of membership and/or driver/trainer license may result in further action taken by the United States Trotting Association. thumbs down

What can they do if you don't have a license Undecided

They don't do anything when you do have one Shocked

I hate to break it to you, but the USTA does not issue an owners "license." Owners are members of the USTA, not license holders.

Of course, if you were actually involved in this business, rather than just being an anonymous goof who likes to run his mouth, you would know about these things, not to mention knowing about the USTA's lack of standing as a regulatory authority.

The USTA's primary role is as registrar of the breed, responsible for what would be known as the "stud book" on the Thoroughbred side of horse racing, as well as being the statistical agent for harness racing.

Most states require that owners be USTA members, and that drivers and trainers have USTA licenses, but that is not universally true.
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the DailyDaley
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« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2006, 01:19:31 PM »

Gee: I went looking for my LICENSES from the 70's. Both have a "LICENSE NUMBER ON THEM", Michigan and the USTA. IMAGINE THAT.  dude

But then again I am showing my age. We had to get RACING PAPERS back then. The blue ones were for pacers and I do believe the green papers were for trotters.

WAY BACK THEN  , this meant you had to be a "REGISTERED LICENSED OWNER" with the USTA, not a member "DOH"  Cry

Let's ask the next MILLION $$$$$ question, why would McErlean accept a USTA director seat to handle FAIR ISSUES.

I can't wait for this answer. By the way. Are you Cliff Siegels illegitimate son  Huh
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ricco charro
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« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2006, 06:53:30 PM »

TROTTERS PAPERS WERE YELLOW
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