Should Billings Races be on the betting card?

[Chitown Stan]

My feelings are they should be restricted to county fairs and non betting races. What does everyone else think? I am anxious for some opinions by the experts on this forum.

[trotter]

Non betting for sure.  Most of the drivers are very much the amateurs.  Let them be non-betting. 

[Dan Nance]

Why not?......... It's a " Dead Game " anyway.

[edwardwilliam]

Absolutely, positively...

NO.

Best,
EW

[John Doe]

Stan:

My thoughts on the Billings races are that they should be held at Maywood or Balmoral on Monday or Tuesday nights. It would drastically improve both, the quantity and quality of racing on those nights. I do not know if you have paid very much attention to Maywood on Mondays, and Balmoral on Tuesdays, but this is not how harness racing is supposed to be in a large city the size of Chicago. I mean these cards and horses are horrible. I counted yesterday at Balmoral over 47 horses that were visibly lame to the naked eye and should not have been allowed to race. I haven't a clue as to what the state vet is being told to do, but it's scary…real scary. Somebody is going to get killed with all of these lame horses that a blocked everywhere, racing week in and week out. The Chicago track owners should be ashamed of themselves for allowing such a good product to end up down the drain, like it is.

Stan, when I raced horses in Chicago, there were time and class eligibility restrictions. If your horse even looked lame, Doc Smith would scratch you in a New York minute. Dan and Scotty will back me up on that one. What the hell is the state vet being told to do today, turn his back? Over half of these horses are crippled in the post parade. Last night when I was watching, I finally said to myself, either bet something else, or get the hell out of here. This Chicago product sucks, the track owners and IRB are corrupt, all of the horsemen are broke, and all of the horses are lame. That was all it took. I walked out after the seventh race.

For me, the Billings Series would be a step up from what type of quantity and quality we currently have in Chicago. Just my opinion and as always, open for debate.

Best regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel For Life)

[Joe B]

Joe Dakuras - I'm wondering if you disagree with me on any of the following things I'm going to say.  First of all, I'm just a fan and agree totally with you that Chicago racing as aproduct is at its poorest since I've been a fan ( around 1980 ).  You obviously have a "beef" with the Johnstons and Doc etc.......we all know that 1000 times over....you should start to leave this beef out of your posts because it discredits the points you make sometimes.....you obviously know the game and your opinions on the decline in chicago are meaningful and they stand up on their own...no need to continually bash the Johnstons every post.....Now my points.  The Johnstons are business owners and they are laughing every day when they make their bank deposit.  Is there number one priority the state of Chicago harness racing or is their number one priority their bottom line?
They don't give a shit if Mon and Tuesday are a parade of lame 4 claimers.....they have a business with the otbs etc where they are making money hand over fist.....in my opinion, even though the quality here is poor as ever, they still handle a pretty good dollar...I'm surprised...I would have thought handles would be down more than they've been....in any case, it seems to me the Johnstons have a grand plan.....in the long run maybe they think they'll eventually get slots....and maybe thats their ultimate goal.....my point here is this.....like them or hate them...the Johnstons arent stupid....they have a good thing going......
I'd like to ask you this question...Isn't it the fault of the fans who continue to patronize Chicago racing and isnt it partially the fault of horsemen who continue to race here as to the state of racing in Chicago?  I'm guilty because I still wager on Chicago tracks....I'm putting my money in the owners pockets.....so what right do i have to complain?  If its so bad, I shouldnt gamble on it....
Do you feel the same?  How about the horsemen who you claim are broke? Why dont they go race elsewhere?  i.e. Morgan......one more question....What can the racing fan do to better this situation?  or is it too late?   Joe B

[Dan Nance]

Joe Dakuras - I'm wondering if you disagree with me on any of the following things I'm going to say.  First of all, I'm just a fan and agree totally with you that Chicago racing as aproduct is at its poorest since I've been a fan ( around 1980 ).  You obviously have a "beef" with the Johnstons and Doc etc.......we all know that 1000 times over....you should start to leave this beef out of your posts because it discredits the points you make sometimes.....you obviously know the game and your opinions on the decline in chicago are meaningful and they stand up on their own...no need to continually bash the Johnstons every post.....Now my points.  The Johnstons are business owners and they are laughing every day when they make their bank deposit.  Is there number one priority the state of Chicago harness racing or is their number one priority their bottom line?
They don't give a shit if Mon and Tuesday are a parade of lame 4 claimers.....they have a business with the otbs etc where they are making money hand over fist.....in my opinion, even though the quality here is poor as ever, they still handle a pretty good dollar...I'm surprised...I would have thought handles would be down more than they've been....in any case, it seems to me the Johnstons have a grand plan.....in the long run maybe they think they'll eventually get slots....and maybe thats their ultimate goal.....my point here is this.....like them or hate them...the Johnstons arent stupid....they have a good thing going......
I'd like to ask you this question...Isn't it the fault of the fans who continue to patronize Chicago racing and isnt it partially the fault of horsemen who continue to race here as to the state of racing in Chicago?  I'm guilty because I still wager on Chicago tracks....I'm putting my money in the owners pockets.....so what right do i have to complain?  If its so bad, I shouldnt gamble on it....
Do you feel the same?  How about the horsemen who you claim are broke? Why dont they go race elsewhere?  i.e. Morgan......one more question....What can the racing fan do to better this situation?  or is it too late?   Joe B

You're asking what can the racing fan do to better the situation? That is the dumbest question I've read on this forum. The racing fan can't do a damn thing to help out the horseman or the purses. They bet their money and the handle shows it. The track owners are able to steal the horsesman's money in the form of recapture. If recapture was completely eliminated the horseman would not be in the shape they are in because you would see it in the purses.

    The Johnson's are business people alright, they're in the business of robing the horseman any legal way they can. 

[Les Moore]

Let them trot and let them bet. Joe D. is right, the lame broken down cheap horses are what should be looked at here.

[Chitown Stan]

It looks like that damn Burton turned another thread off track...Tom Wendt, please quit it!!! JUST STOP IT ALREADY!!!! THE SUBJECT IS BILLINGS DRIVERS!!!!!

[nextbonus]

Amateur driving races, Billings or otherwise, are THE MOST BORING sporting event in the world.  Worse than tennis and NASCAR and those two REALLY SUCK.

No betting.  And they should be conducted before or after the betting races.  Not during.

Happy Thanksgiving!

[BIG FAN]

I agree with NB Bill   NON BETTING!!!


Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

[Michigan Dale]

First up, let it be known I DO enjoy the Billings action on the betting cards.   Have done very very well betting the Billings since I know how to play them.   I also know many of the competitors and the family atmosphere that surrounds many of the stops on the Billings circuit.   It just does not get much better and I want forum readers to understand, I am NOT a Billing driver.   At least not yet....   That being said, although I enjoy the wagering aspect, I could live with the races being non-wagering as long as they continue to be showcased at the partmutual tracks.  I do think its very important to the sport of harness racing.  Boring?   Oh there may have been 'some' but how was a dead-heat at Balmoral boring?  I've seen some incredibly exciting Billings races with 4 and 5 across the wire in tight finishes.   My belief continues to be that folks confuse Billings 'amateur' drivers with 'novices.'   They're two different things all together.  As for the horses, there are some pretty darn good trotters in the Billings Series.   These are not, with few exceptions of course, broken down lame cheapie claimers that we all have observed racing at many of the tracks.   In fact, some big bucks have been invested in horses for the sole purpose of being among the best on the Billings circuit en route to the Meadowlands Finals.   Incidentally, evidently there is enough interest in the Billings to put them on the wagering cards at such tracks as the Meadowlands, Pocono, Balmoral, Monticello, Pompano, Northfield, Hazel, Scioto, Hoosier Park, The Meadows, Colonial Downs and others......its just one aspect of the sport.   We all can't love the same things alll the time - we can agree to disagree and move on.   That being said, Happy Thanksgiving to all and when the $40,000 Delvin Miller Gold Cup goes postward Friday night at the Big M, there will be those of us, like me, taking in every minute of it,pulling for my own favorites and investing my dollars while others can simply turn away, bet something somewhere else and get back into action on race #2.   Its just that simple.

[Chitown Stan]

Dale my friend, I don't think the Billings is turning out like Delvin had in mind. Besides Keidel, you go through that list of racetracks and I can tell you that at least 3 quarters of the race secretarys at those tracks cringe win its their turn to host them God awful races. They are bad betting races that for the most part, aren't bet very hard. The conditions for the billings races given to the race secretaries are thicker then the damn Bible. Then you have to beg, borrow, and steal to get a lot of these guys horses. It just aint worth it. I say County Fairs are the perfect spot for them.

[SUPERMAN]

           That race should be called the Hillbillings.

[Elsie]

The Billings races should be non-betting for sure.

How about this idea:
Let's have them AFTER the regular race card, not BEFORE or DURING the races.

Let them wait around all night in the paddock, stay late in the test barn, get home at ungodly hours, etc.  As it is now, they are usually EARLY NON-BETTING.  In the summer, it is not even dark yet.  Depending on where they are racing, some of those guys could be home and in bed before horses in the last races are warmed up.  That is not the real world in this business.

We will find out how many of those guys really want to drive!

[SUPERMAN]

        Hey Elmers glue head, Good post.

                     I have a better idea for the Hillbillings drivers

1. All drivers in the Billings get to use a sickle instead of a whip and can hit the other driver and/or horse with it.

2. Each race bike can be modified to have spiked wheels just like on Ben-Hur to crash the wheels and/or legs of another horse.

3. Race will go on until last horse and/or driver is standing

4. Losing drivers bodies get dragged down RT. 1 until nothings left

5. Wifes and/or girl freinds of losing drivers must do strip dance on tables of club house (Amish wifes must shave arm pits)

6. Guy who thought of this STUPID RACE has to eat 500 silk worms and gets 1,000 live leaches put on his body until eaten 

[Dan Nance]

Kim " The OL' Tanker " Hankins is driving in the 10th race at CalExpo. An amateur race.

[Dan Nance]

Kim " The OL' Tanker " Hankins is driving in the 10th race at CalExpo. An amateur race.

I guess if you haven't driven in 10 years you can be considered an amateur again.