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Author Topic: Midwest Wagering Scandal?????????????????/  (Read 6475 times)
burton
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« on: October 26, 2005, 05:07:43 PM »

Well last week this was a big topic.
I'm still waiting for some facts?Huh
Will there ever be any "facts' about this?
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the young one
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« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2005, 05:17:57 PM »

i dont really remember reading anything about this but wasnt it at indy downs involving the drivers?
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TC
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« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2005, 06:07:23 PM »

Since you're all clamoring for more, did I leave off with 7 people being seriously looked at for collusion and race fixing- 4 trainers and 3 drivers ?  They were asked to voluntarily submit copies of their cell phone records by a deadline date.  At least one of the trainers immediately cancelled his cell account in hopes of quashing further investigation.  More details will follow when the process moves along after Breeder's Cup day and the close of the meet.  TC
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burton
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« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2005, 06:48:29 PM »

Waiting for the "facts" with baited breath!
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Joe B
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« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2005, 06:51:10 PM »

burton - didnt you know when a major scandel comes about...they wait until the meet closes and wait until after any major thoroughbred events before they address the scandel.....they do however tip off tc as to a few of the details....he so kindly shares them with us at his convenience...
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TC
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« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2005, 07:15:06 PM »

Joe, you're not one of the disgruntled people caught up in this, are you ?  We're lucky not to be in your shoes then.  Go back and work on your 4th hand erroneous stories and join another forum where you can hide like a wussy and spread lies all night and all day.  Sound good ?  TC
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TC
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« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2005, 10:18:32 PM »

BTW, two owners from one driver/trainer combo already in the hot seat and their phone records are being requested for.  Soon, the story will be broken to the general public, I'll be taking crow orders then.  TC
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burton
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« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2005, 06:48:41 AM »

Still waiting for "FACTS"
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TC
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« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2005, 12:34:45 PM »

FACT 1 : Carpenter, who I believe has 0 to do with this scandal, appeared before the IRC already.  Fact 2 :  Todd Warren is next, as early as today or tomorrow.  When his sob story is complete, I'll give you more details and facts.  Mr. Warren's testimony should be quite interesting.  TC
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burton
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« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2005, 01:34:42 PM »

TC

Once again you lead us down the slippery slope of innuendo with zero facts.
Tell us about Warren.
Don't give the impression that he is in trouble with zero factual basis.
What is his sob story?
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TC
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« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2005, 01:46:19 PM »

TC

Once again you lead us down the slippery slope of innuendo with zero facts.
Tell us about Warren.
Don't give the impression that he is in trouble with zero factual basis.
What is his sob story?
*** YOU, blind man ! LEARN TO READ, the facts you asked for are right in front of you.  Don't address me ever again.  You'll be doing yourself a huge favor.  Now login as another persona, because that's what wusses do.  You don't know shit about racing anywhere.  You're a troll-mushroom.  Go haunt under another name, the one we're all more familiar with, or are you too scared ? TC
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burton
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« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2005, 02:08:29 PM »

I'm shaking!!!!
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TC
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« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2005, 01:21:55 AM »

Todd Warren gave the IRC zilch to go on and even gave them some lip when they pressed him on his cell phone usage.  One of his owners (Tanneyhill, I believe) picks up the tab for his cell but Warren gave the commission his wife's cells LUDS.  Very crafty indeed.  They still have over a half-dozen more interviews to conduct, so you'll know more soon.  This may boil down to a "request" not to show up for next year's meet, if the IRC can't prove race-fixing, but they do have at least one "player" on his cell at the SAM in the paddock, possibly betting on NOT his horse.  Stay tuned.  TC
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burton
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« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2005, 09:16:52 AM »

One call from one cell phone  another doesn't make a scandal?
Seriously, without recordings etc; what can be proven?
Please inform?
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TC
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« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2005, 09:30:25 AM »

One call from one cell phone  another doesn't make a scandal?
Seriously, without recordings etc; what can be proven?
Please inform?
That's the question.  It seems a commission not used to dealing with scandal of this sort may have "tipped their hand" in this case.  Warren gave them 'quasi niente', and their line of questioning was off fabric, IMO.  So what if the owner has the cells of Warren, his 2nd trainer, and grooms under his name.  They want the LUDs to establish calls made between parties that match the pari mutuel time log of wagers made on-track and in the overall system to try and prove guys were colluding to set up races.  The tapes of guys wagering in the paddock SAM mean little...but if they were to couple that with timed phone conversations and wagering logs, then the heat could be turned up.  The bottom line is unless someone panics,   I'd wager a nice voucher some "folks" won't be allowed to return to race in IN in '06 and the investigation will die on the vine.  Hard to figure that the "architects" of this activity outsmarted a bunch of Hoosier commissioners, but it wouldn't be the 1st time ...or the last.  TC   P.S. More appearances to follow... so Kate Smith is still spritzing her soprano with lemon - LOL.
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burton
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« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2005, 09:39:52 AM »

An awful lot to prove I would say.
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TC
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« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2005, 09:53:59 AM »

Can the IRC get a "Deep Throat" or are tapes of horsemen at the paddock SAM and LUDS enough to piece together a trail of deceit ?  That's the $64,000 question and where, IMO, this case stands.  TC
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burton
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« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2005, 10:01:40 AM »

Sounds like a long stretch?
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TC
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« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2005, 10:04:50 AM »

..longer than Balmoral's IMO -LOL. TC
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rozzibo
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« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2005, 03:36:12 PM »

when you say the SAM or LUD are you refering to the betting machines???   If so there is a live teller in the paddock not a machine.
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TC
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« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2005, 04:17:18 PM »

when you say the SAM or LUD are you refering to the betting machines???   If so there is a live teller in the paddock not a machine.
SAM is indeed the betting machine.  They use the different system than we do.  They use USA Tote (someone correct me if i'm wrong here).  THe LUDS refers to Local Usage Details, the record of all calls coming in and going out from a phone.  If horseman "A" were on tape at 8:15 at the SAM, talking to another horseman, and one or both had horses in the race coming up, then possibly bet against their own horses (pitching them), that would be illegal and really illegal if they profitted from it.  Do you see where the IRC is going with this.  IMO, they don't have much more than suspicions, but who knows who will say what when given the rubber hose/ bare bulb treatment ?  Did I witness any fishy drives, well in playing for value, I bypass chalks when playing supers (eliminating them from 1st and/or 2nd in wheels), so it rarely affected my movie.  I'll bet mom and pop $2 WIN bettor were steamed leaving Shelbyville headed back to the farm though.  TC
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burton
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« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2005, 04:44:12 PM »

If this did happen and I say "if", it would be extremely hard to prove if this is how they are piecing their story.
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Richard Breth
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« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2005, 04:48:04 PM »

If this did happen and I say "if", it would be extremely hard to prove if this is how they are piecing their story.

How can you say that Burton read the strong evidence TC said "they do have at least one "player" on his cell at the SAM in the paddock, possibly betting on NOT his horse".

A player on his cell phone in the paddock. Making a call. Possibly betting. Possibly on NOT his horse. Open and shut case.
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burton
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« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2005, 04:52:34 PM »

I said "if".
Personally I doubt that any of this is true.
Just more racetrack gossip.
If it is remember OJ.
His victims blood was all over his house and he got off.
I know, bad analogy.
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TC
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« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2005, 05:06:36 PM »

Fellas, keep in mind the David Hawk story and possibly extrapolate it to this case.  Is he any less banned ?  His wagers were made through an online platform - not too bright.  I still am trying to figure out if the paddock camera angle can determine who bet what, how much doesn't matter.  In Hawk's case, the value was a winning $5 EX with longshots, but Tony Salvaro Jr. would know all the facts off the top of his head in that issue...paging Tony Jr.  TC
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burton
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« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2005, 05:09:41 PM »

Oakbrook OTB charged a kid with stealing someones voucher.
He found it after someone left without it.
The OTB tried to match up video, the time he cashed etc; and long story short.
The kid got off. The judge said the evidence was inconclusive at best.
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2005, 05:14:34 PM »

Oakbrook OTB charged a kid with stealing someones voucher.
He found it after someone left without it.
The OTB tried to match up video, the time he cashed etc; and long story short.
The kid got off. The judge said the evidence was inconclusive at best.

What is the "law" on this?  I mean -- if once is left on the table, I'll try to find the person who played it, but if they aren't around, it's mine.

I'm surely not "giving" it to someone that works there -- they'd be just as likely to cash it as anyone!

Best,
EW
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Stick to Fantasyland pal, because you'll NEVER make it in the real world - TC
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« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2005, 05:26:21 PM »

What is the "law" on this?  I mean -- if once is left on the table, I'll try to find the person who played it, but if they aren't around, it's mine.

I'm surely not "giving" it to someone that works there -- they'd be just as likely to cash it as anyone!

Best,
EW
What happened to ...nine points of the law... LOL.  I've given guys their $1,400 vouchers back when I saw their leave behinds - bad karma IMO.  The Spk/ May trick was always to go up (or down), cash the booty in and go buy another voucher.  I've seen this method 100 times.  My vouch was $850+ once and a man who spoke broken english had me hassled by security because he thought I stole or incorporated his $6 voucher.  I was really going to give mutuels my voucher to check if I accidentally included his if he left the machine w/o pressing FINISH, when the mutuels guy laughed as I took out a wad to get a backup vouch in case.  The guy lost his vouch, but said 0 to me until accusing me in Tagalog to his archipelago friends that I was a so-and-so.  Turns out he did lose it, and as must be their custom, didn't bother apologizing.  Ah, the great Ratwood.  I think one day it'll be a race around here to get their nutty racetrack stories published - LOL.  I'll bet the president of Pinnacle loves to hear such stories - LOL  TC 
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2005, 05:52:03 PM »

What happened to ...nine points of the law... LOL.  I've given guys their $1,400 vouchers back when I saw their leave behinds - bad karma IMO.  The Spk/ May trick was always to go up (or down), cash the booty in and go buy another voucher.  I've seen this method 100 times.  My vouch was $850+ once and a man who spoke broken english had me hassled by security because he thought I stole or incorporated his $6 voucher.  I was really going to give mutuels my voucher to check if I accidentally included his if he left the machine w/o pressing FINISH, when the mutuels guy laughed as I took out a wad to get a backup vouch in case.  The guy lost his vouch, but said 0 to me until accusing me in Tagalog to his archipelago friends that I was a so-and-so.  Turns out he did lose it, and as must be their custom, didn't bother apologizing.  Ah, the great Ratwood.  I think one day it'll be a race around here to get their nutty racetrack stories published - LOL.  I'll bet the president of Pinnacle loves to hear such stories - LOL  TC 

TC -- I agree with giving it back TO a person if I see them lose it.  At the same time, I'll be damned if I'm going to "turn it in" if I can't find them.  Even at $27/hr (or whatever they make now) I'm sure the fine employees would take an added bonus.

Also -- be careful about the cash and replace...these days they're getting better at figuring out at who's bouncing between windows, etc.  I've seen some pretty funny exchanges take place because of lost vouchers.

Best one:
Someone sniped a voucher from someone I know.  Now, we hung out in the same exact spot for years, and that night -- it just happened to be all regulars.  So, some "outsider" guy just happens to wander over -- is at the machine for about ten seconds -- and we don't see him again.  In the meantime, voucher is gone.  So -- uh-oh.

After a little screaming (and some action), nothing can really be done about the $$.  So -- my friend tracks this guy for about six months -- waiting for him to leave a voucher.  Finally, after months, the guy walks away from the machine -- and my buddy snags the voucher.  He knew he had been had -- and wasn't going to complain to security about it -- because he knew he'd get one hell of a tune-up if he did.  Ahh -- memories.

Best,
EW
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« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2005, 07:35:17 PM »

             Who cares about a REDNECK track in the middle of a corn field that couldn't out handle Mama-Lu's on a friday night. Don Eash, Rickey Maccomber, Joe Putman, Walter Haynes, Brain Carpenter, Neil Coleman, Andy Shetler, Dan Shetler, Todd Warren, Brian Barnes, A Scarecrow, A Blow-Up Doll, Bozo. Who's got more talent?  Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked 8) Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry these guys


If they tried to fix a race down their I GUARANTEE they will BE BUSTED
because the average IQ in the names mentioned is a -70 Embarrassed
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« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2005, 12:47:43 PM »

            The only scandle in Indiana will be how many people a Drunk Don Irvine will hit on his way back to Ohio and how many more DUI'S they will have to cover up.. Any over-unders on this? Soon he will have to ride his bicycle to the track.
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« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2005, 06:33:12 PM »

            The only scandle in Indiana will be how many people a Drunk Don Irvine will hit on his way back to Ohio and how many more DUI'S they will have to cover up.. Any over-unders on this? Soon he will have to ride his bicycle to the track.
Superman you scrounge.  I don't know how you think you know Scurvine, but Frenchy at Balmoral would drink his ass under the table in a whiskey contest IMO.  Just ask some of Frenchy's pals.  They'd give you 3/1 odds on your boy Irvine.  Of course, Donnie's melon is so hard not even more falls out of the bike than Evel Kenevel could stop him from comeback # 105 this August -LOL.  I will agree that these two make Doug Hamilton look like a teetotaler -LOL.  TC    P.S.  The I.Q. chart makes moron level at either 78 or 80, so are you sticking by the IN drivers averaging -70 ? LOL
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