MR DAVE PALONE

[0ff stride]

Dave Palone has thousands of reasons to feel good
This could be a memorable week for driver Dave Palone, in more ways than one.

Entering Tuesday, Palone will need four wins to reach 11,000 for his career. He would become the fourth driver in North American harness racing history to accomplish the feat, joining Herve Filion, Cat Manzi and Walter Case Jr.
 and among those 4 he is one of two to avoid being banished from the game

[Scioto Back Sider]

If my memory serves me right (it is hell getting old), I do believe this party had some dealings with the Soulsby/Morgan gang back in the 90's also.

When I watched the Meadows simulcast Ms. Soulsby (she was Ms. Sheppard back then) would interview, Palone, Sears and Wright Jr. on a regular basis.

This party takes down an awful lot of minus pools for whatever reason. Just food for thought.

Does anybody know what his win count is at the Meadowlands and total number of drives lifetime at the Big M.?

Of those 11,000 wins how many were not at Raceway Park, Northfield, Scioto, Pococno and the Meadows.

In other words how many big track wins does he have.

Do you think Palone would average .400 if he drove regular at The Meadowlands or the Woodbine/Mohawk circuit.

I am also curious. In your opinion, which is tougher to drive?

The big tracks or the bull rings. Thank you for your responses.

[bigwrench]

TOUGHER TO DRIVE?? YOU DONT ACTUALLY THINK, THE LITTLE 1/2 MILE  BULL-RINGS, LIKE NOR1/2, OR NFLD1/2, ON A COLD JANUARY  NIGHT ABOUT  1O ABOVE IS EASY TO FIRE OUT A HORSE AROUND THAT FIRST TURN   DO YOU??

[edwardwilliam]

TOUGHER TO DRIVE?? YOU DONT ACTUALLY THINK, THE LITTLE 1/2 MILE  BULL-RINGS, LIKE NOR1/2, OR NFLD1/2, ON A COLD JANUARY  NIGHT ABOUT  1O ABOVE IS EASY TO FIRE OUT A HORSE AROUND THAT FIRST TURN   DO YOU??

You have much less pace control on a big track.

There's a reason that many small ovals have someone that dominates...

Best,
EW

[Buffaloboy]

I dont know Palone's win count by track. I can tell you he drove in New York for a little while at Yonkers Raceway and won a seasonal title. It was back after Roossvelt had closed, Yonkers went year round and had Spring, Summer, Fall and Winter meets.

I wouldnt call him a Pocono Downs driver. He goes there for Sire Stakes and the other couple of stakes races they have.

And of course Palone would not have a .400 udrs at The Meadowlands. Nobody there does. According to their site, Brian Sears for the 10 drivers with at least 50 wins, is the leader at .339. He is the only one over .300. Eric Ledford is second at .268 and he is done there. I have to believe Mohawk and Woodbine would be similar.

As far as which size track is harder to drive at, its clearly two dirrerent types of driving. You can debate it forever and money has a big role in it. Go back to before The Meadowlands opened and the best track on the planet nearby Roosevelt Raceway and that was a half mile track.

Now I am a huge Walter Case fan. Following him in NY the year he won 1000 races was wild. He had a stretch where he won a race on 21 straight days ... not cards. The best though was Filion. Not because he has the most but because of all the tracks he drove at, Countless times he drove the afternoon at Freehold, got to Yonkers and Roosevelt for early races there and would helicopter for races at The Meadowlands. He had nights where he drove early races at Yonkers or Roosevelt, would helicopter to the airport to catch a private jet and drove later that night in Toronto.

[0ff stride]

my favorite dave palone story involves another person in that exclusive win club..walter junior .. acouple of seasons ago bob belch won the raceway trainers title. he raced at toledo exclusively on sundaze using case as his primary driver(he also used josh kash, but that is unimportant) on the day that bob belch was to receive his plaque and money reward ..walter junior was unavailabe due to suspension and couldnt drive.
bob belch had 7 horses in that night and palone was named on all seven ..got to see bob belch shake his jelly belly down to the winners area at raceway seven times that night... i cashed on all seven

[the DailyDaley]

Hey BigWrench:   Looks like you skipped school too much. Last time I looked, Woodbine/Mohawk was north and east of those bull rings you mentioned and I do believe they race year round there also.

Do you think Toronto gets some nasty weather in January    
Seems to me those winds blow 30 to 40 mph some nights there.

When was the last time you watched Big M racing   You better check the calendar, they race in December, January, February also.

All I was trying to say is this. These large win numbers that these drivers put up are at small tracks.

Lets take a prime example. Stephane Bouchard. Can you over drive a horse on a 1/2 and get away with it? You sure can. Over drive one on a mile track, you get carved up. Plain and simple.
 
I went back the last couple of years at the Meadowlands - Here are those numbers currently for Bouchard in 2006.
 
Bouchard  - starts 113 - 3 wins - 7 seconds - 6 thirds -  win -3% -  UDRS -0.079
 
 
His 2005 numbers are
 
Bouchard - starts 119 - 2 wins - 9 seconds- 6 thirds - win - 2% - UDRS - 0.076
 
 
His 2004 numbers are

Bouchard - 201 starts - 4 wins -12 seconds - 23 thirds - win - 2% - UDRS 0.091

So lets total those up.    433 drives - 9 wins - 28 seconds - 35 thirds
win  - 2%  - UDRS - 0.083.

Now if you look at his Yonkers/Monticello numbers, they are quite different aren't they.
You wonder if this is the same guy, don't you.

Is the driver competition better at the BIG TRACKS? Yep.

Does he put other drivers to sleep like he does at Yonkers/Monticello? No.

Does he understand pace, positioning, when to move and how to move on BIG TRACKS? He hasn't learned it yet.

The bull ring racing is the same race after race after race. Make the front. Back'em down.

Do you think Brett Miller prefers the bull rings?

I will tell you this. When John Campbell left the Detroit/Windsor area for the Meadowlands he was MARGINAL at best, especially at Wolverine. John won his share at Hazel and Windsor. John HAD TO LEARN how to drive at the Big M. He was taken under the wings of Ray Remmen, Greg Wright Sr. Tom Harmer, Chris Boring, Bill Gale and was given the knowledge of what to and not to do.

Walter drove all size tracks, no problem with him. Herve won most of his in the bull rings. Yonkers, Roosevelt, Freehold. When the BIG M opened up, who dominated the early years there? The Detroit drivers.

Cat Manzi - No problem there either. Cat drives and wins his share at the Meadowlands. He has good track presence and awareness.

Dave Palone - Very good driver and understands pace in the BULL RINGS. Put him in with better drivers on a bigger track and things change. The 1/4 pole moves stop. The slow middle 1/4's stop. The friendly give and go racing stops.

It is kind of like the Beyer number with the runners. Both horses run 1:09 the same day day with a Beyer number of 112 for their respective race.

Their next start is an allowance race. One of the runners was a $15,000 claimer, the other a $75,000 claimer. What horse do you want?

Each driver has a place in harness racing. I only agree with Dave Brower on a few things. One of those is, "Show me on the BIG TRACK".

I have not seen enough of Dave Palone to put him in the upper tier of drivers.

 

[off stride]

Dave Palone has thousands of reasons to feel good
This could be a memorable week for driver Dave Palone, in more ways than one.

Entering Tuesday, Palone will need four wins to reach 11,000 for his career. He would become the fourth driver in North American harness racing history to accomplish the feat, joining Herve Filion, Cat Manzi and Walter Case Jr.
 and among those 4 he is one of two to avoid being banished from the game ... so far

[Buffaloboy]

my favorite dave palone story involves another person in that exclusive win club..walter junior .. acouple of seasons ago bob belch won the raceway trainers title. he raced at toledo exclusively on sundaze using case as his primary driver(he also used josh kash, but that is unimportant) on the day that bob belch was to receive his plaque and money reward ..walter junior was unavailabe due to suspension and couldnt drive.
bob belch had 7 horses in that night and palone was named on all seven ..got to see bob belch shake his jelly belly down to the winners area at raceway seven times that night... i cashed on all seven

I dont know if we are talking about the same night at Raceway but there was one night when Belcher put Palone up on his horses. I forget if Palone won the first three in a row or had three wins and a place in the first four races

But Greg Grismore and Aaron Merriman both quickly called off their remaining drives and were spotted in the track bar watching the rest of the card.

[LV_GaryD]

Tom Harmer taught Campbell how to drive??? Tom Harmer has always been a non-driving s.o.b.

Debbie, I'm still waiting for you in Las Vegas.