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Author Topic: Wonder what will happen now......  (Read 4328 times)
Jim C
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« on: July 09, 2006, 11:43:42 PM »

Interesting development racing fans, from what I understand CDI/AP has bought the note Sportsmans had outstanding. This would now mean the Sportsman's owners owe CDI/AP all outstanding debt and technically would make CDI the owners until the debts are paid off.

This could get VERY interesting when dates are applied for in Sept. Look again for AP to ask for 4 days a week until July then go to 5 days through Aug then back to 4 until closing the end of Sept. Maybe even Sports/Haw. will run 3 days a week at the start and then go to 4 or 5 through May. Wonder who will be doing the dates app. for Sportsmans....that will be the question as CDI could always call in the note if they do not like the dates that Sports/haw is going for. And then there were 2.......
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Valuist
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« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2006, 07:56:27 AM »

Now if only Sportsman's can go back to a 5/8ths oval.  Everybody loved that track.  Worst thing they ever did was make it a 7f track that looked like a stretched out rubber band; 2 hairpin turns and straightaways that were too long.
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big wally
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« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2006, 08:38:21 AM »

Was Sportman"s Debt public Debt? What are the terms of debt and were there side agreements on this purchase? When CDI issues their financials we may have a better idea want is going on.  These tracks owners cant  get along with themselves, consolidation of dates and track owners is on its way.
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Sir Blockheadd
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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2006, 09:10:13 AM »

debt does not equal ownership, it equals creditor.

equity, stock = ownership.

the note cannot be called unless it is callable.
most debentures have due dates.
the note could be refinanced by the equity holders by obtaining a new note to pay of the old one.
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big wally
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« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2006, 10:48:48 AM »

If the debt is callable and the NJC cant pay... I think their are two options Options 1 declare bankruptcy and if this happens no way will the racing board issue them dates.... Option 2- Give the debt holders an equity interest and if this happens AP/CDI could become the majority owner... Bidwell still owns a small amount of CDI Stock.... So, if JIM C is correct CDI will have to make the debt purchase public... Interesting if Jim C has his facts straight .. another option is to negotiate new terms on the note, thinking about it more there could be many more options since they are merged with Hawthorne
« Last Edit: July 10, 2006, 02:51:47 PM by big wally » Report to moderator   Logged
Sir Blockheadd
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« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2006, 12:11:23 PM »

If the debt is callable and the NJC cant pay... I think their are two options Options 1 declare bankruptcy and if this happens no way will the racing board issue them dates.... Option 2- Give the debt holders an equity interest and if this happens AP/CDI could become the majority owner... Bidwell still owns a small amount of CDI Stock.... So, if JIM C is correct CDI will have to make the debt purchase public... Interesting if Jim C has his facts straight .. another option is to negotiate new terms on the note, thinking about it more their could be many more options since they are merged with Hawthorne

you forgot option three,

refinance the old note with a new lender, and repay the old note.
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big wally
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2006, 12:35:34 PM »

you forgot option three,

refinance the old note with a new lender, and repay the old note.

yes, another possiblity. My guess, the new lender would want a  much higher interest rate...
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Trackman
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« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2006, 01:00:51 PM »

Wow! This not a knocking post--I'm impressed with the business knowledge. Will one of you guys handle my 401K investments?
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2006, 02:45:13 PM »

From my understanding (and I was still working at Hawthorne) of the merger with Hawthorne and NJC - the approximately $35,000,000.00  at 10% interest that they still owed after selling the property to Cicero - was a seperate entity to the merger details which created Hawthorne National LLC (the umbrella management company).
So, if in fact CDI/AP bought the note and NJC defaults on their payments and they are deemed insolvent by a court - then they by Illinois law could not get racing dates. Also, in the contract with Hawthorne I believe there is a clause which stipulates that if NJC can't get dates the merger contract can be voided immediately. That would be the best thing that could happen to Hawthorne. Since the merger they have steadily gone further and further down hill in attendance, handle and service for ALL areas. They also still have well over 25 more people on the payroll since before the merger - some making quite a lot of compensation.
Jim C. - where did you hear this? Was it in print or verbal?
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RunSuckerRun
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« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2006, 02:57:05 PM »

Since everyone is getting Machiavellian here....

What if Hawthorne is orchestrating all of this?  Maybe they've set things up to get their partners out of the business since NJC complained about how much money Hawthorne spent to improve the facility.  Hawthorne doesn't give a damn about how many days per week AP runs over the summer.

-RSR
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2006, 03:45:46 PM »

After talking with an old friend from Hawthorne - here's another scenario - CDI/AP demands that NJC race their dates at AP instead of Hawthorne. That would void the merger. Now Arlington could run less races/days per week beginning in early/mid April and then extending to late October. This of course would devestate Hawthorne, but who cares - they don't anymore...
« Last Edit: July 10, 2006, 03:58:07 PM by BeauNarro » Report to moderator   Logged
BeauNarro
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« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2006, 04:01:52 PM »

Ahhh..perhaps that's part of the master plan. The Carey heirs get bought out by AP/CDI because they are tired of all the hassles since Tom Senior stepped down. The family gets a big slice of pie for each beneficiary who can invest/spend as they want, and AP/CDI would manage/race the southwest track on dates they don't want, and would also have the power to persuade the racing board to give them more harness dates over the summer.
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David
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« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2006, 05:54:27 PM »

The last post of Beau makes the most sense, but I wonder if Churchill would even want to run any t-bred dates at Hawthorne, perhaps just making that harness might make the most sense that would allow purses to get built up with less racing which might be a good thing for all considered.

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BeauNarro
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« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2006, 05:59:24 PM »

I heard that Tim Carey and Mr D. had a closed door private meeting for over 4 hours a month ago...interesting....
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big wally
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« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2006, 07:49:53 PM »

Why even Keep Hawthorne  Open for Harness all you gonna get is three months..Close it down and use it to Stable all the t-breds..DD could sell part of the stable area and training track he still owns to free up money for his heirs.. AP could still have some barns open for the out of town trainers they covet and some of better locals and have the rest of them Full time at HAwthorne.... Another question what happens to the OTB's owner by Intertrack Partners
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Jim C
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« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2006, 10:44:16 PM »

Well first of all you cannot own an OTB if you do not have a track so after 2 years Sportsmans would be out. You still have Hawthorne and the harness guys so not sure if AP would get a piece of the deal or not.
But now it is starting to make sense why AP may not apply for the Derby weekend if they are in on Sportsmans.
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David
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« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2006, 01:25:58 AM »

Well first of all you cannot own an OTB if you do not have a track so after 2 years Sportsmans would be out. You still have Hawthorne and the harness guys so not sure if AP would get a piece of the deal or not.
But now it is starting to make sense why AP may not apply for the Derby weekend if they are in on Sportsmans.

Quad City Downs exception?
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big wally
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« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2006, 05:25:41 AM »

Quad City Downs exception?

I think the IRB considers QCD a race track.
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2006, 07:22:46 AM »

Isn't QCD still owned by Mr D???

Here is a scenario- NJC disolves, Maywood converts to a large posch OTB/Entertainment Center (hey sell all excess land where barns, race oval and outer parking once were).
The Johnson family buys Hawthorne property. They convert the turf course back to a 5/8 oval as it was until 20 years ago, but also convert it to a harness surface. Now there would be a long and short track at one venue. That would make the harness community estactic because some horses do prefer a shorter track, and most prefer a mile track. All harness racing would be conducted year round at Hawthorne. Balmoral would only race t-breds in early spring and late fall when Arlington wants to be closed. Maybe 4 day or 3 day race weeks.
The Carey family would pay "rent" to the Johnsons to run at either Balmoral or Hawthorne thus being able to keep their shares of the OTB's. Or they can sell all out to the highest bidder and get out of the game.
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David
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« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2006, 07:30:23 AM »

I would assume QCD would be owned by Chuchill, I would assume it was part of the AP sale, they do use Churchill branding of Trackside OTB and stuff that they have going there now.

Beau's whole scenario makes very good sense, I'm not into harness but I know that the harness guys absolutley love Hawthorne as it is and with dual tracks that would even make it more attractive
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big wally
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« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2006, 07:36:28 AM »

Harness guys would love it. But, why in the Hell would we want t-breds dates at Balmoral.. Nobody would want race  tothere.. on-track handle as poor as is would plummet at Balmoral
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David
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« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2006, 07:41:37 AM »

Not my idea but what envisioned was a lower key meet, basically just a local outlet for the times AP didn't want to race to keep the local horsemen happy.
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2006, 07:42:50 AM »

wally,

In this scenario it would only be to keep the Illinois horsemen here in Illinois. Balmoral did have T-breds for decades until somewhere around the 1980's (can't remember when t-breds left there). And believe me, if thare was t-bred racing 3 or 4 days a week in spring and fall - they would have good fields there.
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jimk
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« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2006, 08:03:47 AM »

You guys might be correct in part or in whole between all of the different visions for the future of Il. racing. I honestly see it a little differently. I think the only reason AP hangs around at all is for the prospect of getting their foot in the door for slots. I don't say slots for the sake of racing, I say slots for the sake of slots. The racing at AP now can't finnancially support the cost of running that place one end of the year to the other. The racing produt and thus the handle and attendance are not heading in the direction that they need to forcast future growth and stabillity. If we all take a step back and look at AP and what it offers today and what it offered just ten or fifteen years ago we can't help but to see a decline to where the racing product has declined to the point where it would take a miracle to turn it around under current ownership,one that has it's flagship operation only three hundred miles to the south and just sunk a ton of money in to it to modernize for well into the future. This is just my opinion and not meant to insult those of you who like the product here or who have invested large sums of money into racing here.
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big wally
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« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2006, 08:15:33 AM »

Beau, I know Balmoral had T-Bred dates, it stopped when DD complained they were taking away horses from AP. Everything wer are talking about is pure speculation... All we know NJC at Hawthorne might be no more.... The wild card to  Illinois racing is Hawthorne.. What are they going to do?  It looks like AP is here to stay

Jimk, I dont disagree but a $20 million purchase of NJC debt says to me AP wont go away even if the slot or casino issue is not settled favorably to the tracks... Last week I would have agreed 100% with you..

AP Figures to date (may be off but very little)
ON Track $465,263
OFF Track $2,878, 090
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