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Author Topic: Let's here what everyone thinks!!!  (Read 2235 times)
Hard 2 Brake
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« on: July 04, 2006, 10:10:52 AM »

Dont include guys who occasionally race here or who are suspended.           

          Drivers
1. Tim Tetrick          Gets a lot of a horse; needs to keep his head on straight.
2. Mike Oosting        Solid driver who wins a lot of races.
3. Dave Magee         No explanation needed!!!!
4. Todd Warren       Has horses in position to win.
5. Ryan Anderson     Most improved driver over last couple of years.

Sidenote:  Sam Widger also has had a good couple of years.  Jason Dillander looks like a good driver at times, but other times?Huh  Dean Magee does well when he drives some stock.  Dale Hiteman is horrible.  Ron Marsh stinks and Brent Holland is reckless. 

Up and coming driver: Rod Allums Jr.

         Trainers

1. Mike Oosting         The guy is almost unbeatable.
2. Robert Phillips        The guy is as hot as a firecracker.
3. Quinton Barbre      Ya it may be Tetrick stable, but this guy does a lot also!!! Having a great year.
4. Bruce Pacitti          Maybe the most feared trainer in Chicago.
5. Roger Welch          Runs a first-class outfit; good with the young ones.
6. Todd Warren         The guy does well wherever he goes.
7. Erv Miller               Does well, but also has the horses and $$$$$ behind him.
8. Paul Stafford         Ya its the Rucker Stable?Huh?
9. Ryan Bellamy         Young guy does very well; wins wherever he goes also.
10. Nelson Willis         Very solid trainer; has the #'s behind him also.

Sidenote:  Darcy Pletcher is in the Top 3 in the standings and has made some good claims this year, but his win % isn't very good, and also has made some terrible claims.  Homer Hochstetler also has many winners but a low win %, but he is a very good trainer especially with babies.  Joe Anderson, used to be the kingpin but doesn't win like he used to; still a very good trainer.  Julie/Andy Miller do very well and probably a top 10 trainer.  Brad Moffitt is having a solid year.  Stanley Miller always does well.  Alex Adam always seems to do pretty good. 

Robin Schadt, cmon win some races with the horses and $$$$ you have???  Paul Blumenfeld, a 9.00 win % wont cut it; needs to quit talking and show some results.  Jill (Mike) Arnold, do pretty well, but where were they for the last 10 years hmmmm.  David McCaffrey does ok but has the #'s behind him; horses leave his barn and zooooooom.


I would like to hear everone's agreements/disagreements and would like any opinions on drivers/trainers.

Please dont post anything ignorant.  Lets keep the topic going!!!!
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bowserkat
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« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2006, 11:41:25 AM »

 maroon  I'd rate Erv Miller higher on the list.  Sure, he has the dollars behind him, but as you point out with Robin, that doesn't mean the results are automatic.  Spending wisely and develpment of youg horses, a great talent.
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Hard 2 Brake
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« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2006, 12:09:20 PM »

Ya true.  He knows a little bit bout training and she knows nothing.
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Mel from Moline
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« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2006, 01:18:48 PM »

This is always an unending argument. Who is good? Who is a phony? I can tell you for sure on that trainers list R. Bob Phillips has forgotten more about training a harness horse than a lot of us will ever know. The simple truth is your only as good or as smart as the horses let you be. If they won't go forward when asked you look like an idiot. If you sleep til noon jog em 3 miles and they go out and win, you're a genius. Most people on any backside know who the guys are that really know how to train a  horse or not. Many, MANY very knowledgable good trainers never get the opportunity to train more than one or two at a time, so how do they make a name? They don't. Don't confuse success with being a good trainer.
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2006, 01:19:25 PM »

5. Ryan Anderson     Most improved driver over last couple of years.

Sidenote:  Sam Widger also has had a good couple of years.  Jason Dillander looks like a good driver at times, but other times?Huh  Dean Magee does well when he drives some stock.  Dale Hiteman is horrible.  Ron Marsh stinks and Brent Holland is reckless. 

Completely agree on RJ -- it's been a COMPLETE "form reversal" since he came back.  Did especially well at Hawthorne!

Sam and Dean both GREATLY benefitted from getting the Harmer like the others, IMO.  I think they are both talented.

Dale can get one home -- you just need to pay attention to your horse's expected trip -- if you need your horse to be first up or quarter moving, you may want to look elsewhere....but, off a ground saving trip?  One of the better ones out there.

I love Brent either on a closer, or on a horse that you can get on the bit and go coast to coast.  He's EXCEPTIONALLY streaky -- if he wins one with a good drive, expect another win or two on the same card.

Just my opinion on some of the "others."  I think it's pretty clear that Dave (the best!), Timmy, Oosting are good.

Best,
EW
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micha goss
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« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2006, 01:27:00 PM »

I have a question about Oosting and one of his horses. He has a mare, a 4k claimer (perfect trip?) who wins tons of races. My question for the panel is this. Why doesn't a horse like that get claimed? She stays in the same class, is 1-5 every week and walks to the front and if she doesn't win, she's 2nd.

Wouldnt she be a good claim for 4k?
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2006, 01:38:00 PM »

I have a question about Oosting and one of his horses. He has a mare, a 4k claimer (perfect trip?) who wins tons of races. My question for the panel is this. Why doesn't a horse like that get claimed? She stays in the same class, is 1-5 every week and walks to the front and if she doesn't win, she's 2nd.

Wouldnt she be a good claim for 4k?

Oosting dominates those 4CL (Perfect Trip AND Johnson County, with some others thrown in there at different times), because he can get them to go, and it appears that others can't...that simple.

Best,
EW
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Kenneth J. Chadwick
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« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2006, 01:48:11 PM »

Oosting dominates those 4CL (Perfect Trip AND Johnson County, with some others thrown in there at different times), because he can get them to go, and it appears that others can't...that simple.

Best,
EW

Watch Claudius Q in the 12 race tonight at Balmoral.  He is 12 but he has won 7 races out 9 in 2006.  How do you bet against him??? He will be the heavy chalk.  I'd watch the race.

Kenneth J. Chadwick     
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off stride
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« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2006, 01:48:56 PM »

I have a question about Oosting and one of his horses. He has a mare, a 4k claimer (perfect trip?) who wins tons of races. My question for the panel is this. Why doesn't a horse like that get claimed? She stays in the same class, is 1-5 every week and walks to the front and if she doesn't win, she's 2nd.

Wouldnt she be a good claim for 4k?

take a look at the recently claimed from oosting crystal trip...always on the board when trained and driven by m. oosting...now getting lucky to get a check...hmmmm wonder why?
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Kenneth J. Chadwick
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« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2006, 01:54:17 PM »

take a look at the recently claimed from oosting crystal trip...always on the board when trained and driven by m. oosting...now getting lucky to get a check...hmmmm wonder why?


Off Stride, I think Oosting had three of these guys at the $ 4,000 claiming level.  Just dominated everyone else.


Kenneth J. Chadwick     
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micha goss
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« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2006, 01:56:46 PM »

I guess the rumor is that these Oosting 4k claimers are not oats and hay performers that can be moved up by a 'juice' guy and thats why they don't get claimed? Huh
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2006, 03:05:31 PM »

I guess the rumor is that these Oosting 4k claimers are not oats and hay performers that can be moved up by a 'juice' guy and thats why they don't get claimed? Huh


That's always the rumor.  It's quite possible that he's just talented at getting the cheap ones to go also, no?

Best,
EW
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AlongTheRail
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« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2006, 03:46:53 PM »

That's always the rumor.  It's quite possible that he's just talented at getting the cheap ones to go also, no?

Best,
EW

Yes, Oosting is obviously talented and gets those cheap one's to go.  Now that I think of it, Rucker is rather talented too.  Seldon Ledford equally as talented.  Give 'em another 10cc's of that "talented" formula.
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kellytuc
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« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2006, 03:55:57 PM »


Jill Arnol is the trainer and does very well.
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2006, 04:10:48 PM »

Yes, Oosting is obviously talented and gets those cheap one's to go.  Now that I think of it, Rucker is rather talented too.  Seldon Ledford equally as talented.  Give 'em another 10cc's of that "talented" formula.

Where are the positives on Oosting though?

Best,
EW
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AlongTheRail
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« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2006, 04:13:11 PM »

Where are the positives on Oosting though?

Best,
EW

You'd make a great owner.
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2006, 04:15:04 PM »

You'd make a great owner.

Tell you what.  No positives in Chicago (not sure about MI?), but lets just throw that out the window.

I say we put every trainer with a UTRS over .250 in jail.  They are all cheating!

Best,
EW
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AlongTheRail
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« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2006, 04:29:48 PM »

Tell you what.  No positives in Chicago (not sure about MI?), but lets just throw that out the window.

I say we put every trainer with a UTRS over .250 in jail.  They are all cheating!

Best,
EW

Now you're just being sarcastic.  But now that you mentioned it, sounds like .250 or over would be a great bar of measurement for random tests and searches on these trainers, just to make sure they are "talented". 

As for Oosting and his incredible touch with these 4K claimers, I'm sure that everyone racing against him understands these magical powers that he contains in his fingers.  And that indeed, is why none of them claim these horses that he's stuffing down their throats.  I guess he's just gifted.
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2006, 05:03:41 PM »

As for Oosting and his incredible touch with these 4K claimers, I'm sure that everyone racing against him understands these magical powers that he contains in his fingers.  And that indeed, is why none of them claim these horses that he's stuffing down their throats.  I guess he's just gifted.

Who knows?  But I'm surely not going to imply he's cheating with ZERO proof at all.

Best,
EW
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AlongTheRail
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« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2006, 05:08:03 PM »

Who knows?  But I'm surely not going to imply he's cheating with ZERO proof at all.

Best,
EW

And I'm not going to imply you're very knowledge on this or any subject with ZERO proof at all.
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d00d
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« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2006, 05:22:20 PM »


I would like to hear everone's agreements/disagreements and would like any opinions on drivers/trainers.

Please dont post anything ignorant.  Lets keep the topic going!!!!


Nice post. 
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2006, 05:26:02 PM »

And I'm not going to imply you're very knowledge on this or any subject with ZERO proof at all.

That's fine by me.  I really don't care about your opinion of me.

Best,
EW
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kellytuc
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« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2006, 07:23:29 PM »

EW,
Since you are the stat man, could you please post the 20 leading drivers and trainers by %'s and money won?  Also, put a minimum start clause on it as there are probly many guys with 20 starts or less that are at a .500 %.
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2006, 08:28:06 PM »

EW,
Since you are the stat man, could you please post the 20 leading drivers and trainers by %'s and money won?  Also, put a minimum start clause on it as there are probly many guys with 20 starts or less that are at a .500 %.

In Chicago?  What exact criteria are you looking for, and I'll put it up...

Best,
EW
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the DailyDaley
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« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2006, 08:50:41 PM »

Why don't you separate the GOOD trainers as opposed to the Bottle  rat trainers.

And once you sort out the bottle  rat trainers, this will lead you to the BOTTLE  rat DRIVERS.

A 3 move horse with a load is a hard combination to beat. If you don't think most horses (75%) are running on a shake/dilator load, you are VERY FOOLISH.

Just because trainers don't get caught at 37 or 39 millimoles (TC02 positive), doesn't mean they are not getting TUBED. They have the same black boxes and do their own testing on the farms. They "DIAL IN" the mixture and away we go. Usually about 33 or 34 mm's.

This is EXACTLY what Hugh Gallagher is driving at in Delaware when he wants unannounced random searches at training facilities.

Don't think any differently. Based on my conversations with Brent Stone (Ontario Race Commission) Canada is trying to lower that 37/39 millimole target number.
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