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Author Topic: fillion should be dqed  (Read 1346 times)
Homestretch
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« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2013, 10:35:40 PM »

Many different opinions here !!!
All I can tell you is that there are many upset and angry horsemen tonight !!
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JoeB
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« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2013, 10:52:41 PM »


Are you suggesting that you think he would have been DQ'ed if this was an overnight?

Here's the inquiry replay:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wakHk0pdyWo&feature=youtu.be
im saying to me this was a 50/50 call...both morrill and filion were the cause of what happened in my opinion...filion was stuck with a ton of pace and if he was gonna win there he only had one choice...force out and hope for the best..i don't believe his actions cost anyone else the win and he went by the leader with ease.... and I believe the significance of the race was the deciding factor in leaving his number up....if it was an overnight race??...its a 50 50 call..and if they dq him im ok with it..if they leave him im ok with it...ive seen a lot of races and that was one of the hardest calls ive ever seen the stewards have to make....from a fans perspective I would have a bigger issue if they took his number down versus them leaving it up...the horse deserved the win...
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JoeB
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« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2013, 11:05:56 PM »

im sure the stewards talked to morrill...id be interested to hear his take on the incident,,,i wonder if the stewards have made any public comments on their decision,,,or if theres an official write up by the stewards on this inquiry that's available to the public....

id especially like to hear any jim morrill comments....

again..real tough call seeing what I saw,,,so tough I really couldn't even argue much with someone who thinks filions number should have been taken down
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Homestretch
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« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2013, 11:09:32 PM »

im saying to me this was a 50/50 call...both morrill and filion were the cause of what happened in my opinion...filion was stuck with a ton of pace and if he was gonna win there he only had one choice...force out and hope for the best..i don't believe his actions cost anyone else the win and he went by the leader with ease.... and I believe the significance of the race was the deciding factor in leaving his number up....if it was an overnight race??...its a 50 50 call..and if they dq him im ok with it..if they leave him im ok with it...ive seen a lot of races and that was one of the hardest calls ive ever seen the stewards have to make....from a fans perspective I would have a bigger issue if they took his number down versus them leaving it up...the horse deserved the win...
Good observation Joe !!!!!!!!
And there will be differences of opinions on this call forever. !!!
One of the most controversial moments in Harness racing in my lifetime. !!
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JoeB
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« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2013, 11:16:55 PM »

Homestretch - if you were a steward there??  whats your call based on watching the replay??
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Homestretch
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« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2013, 11:33:07 PM »

Homestretch - if you were a steward there??  whats your call based on watching the replay??

Strictly on watching the replay Huh?
The horse should come down.
What I don't understand is why they allowed the winners circle presentation to go forward before the race was official.
Did having the embarrassment of a new presentation have anything to influence the judges decision Huh??
 dunno dunno
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Juicejunkies
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« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2013, 11:39:29 PM »

Total corruption in canada.   Already planning judge reassignments/terminations.
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Hawk
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« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2013, 08:04:11 AM »

Watch the head of Fillion's horse when they hit wheels. I've seen a few different angles now & they all appear that Fillion caused this mess in the stretch..... he only moves out about 3-4 ft but was enough to start the chain reaction! Most are over exaggerating Morrill's horse drifting. Fillion does not get out period if he does not bump Morrill's horse into Mcnairs path. Guarantee there will be owners appealing this call....& imo. they will win whether Sea Biscuit believes it or not.
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PURPLE LAVERN
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« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2013, 09:39:08 AM »

Its too bad this scars an otherwise classic race where I am thinking a 50-1 swallows up the chalk in the final 50 yards..

I know people have different opinions & the only ones that count are the so called judges but have watched it numerous times & can't understand why he wasn't place last.

Should not matter the purse of a race- a foul is a foul 
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SomeNutSomeWhere
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« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2013, 10:39:32 AM »

Just watched the replay non-DQ and Filion should definitely have been taken down...Looks like Morrill got bumped a bit, and subsequently tried to give Sylvain a path to get out and then took out McNair while doing so.
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« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2013, 02:35:09 PM »

Just watched the replay non-DQ and Filion should definitely have been taken down...Looks like Morrill got bumped a bit, and subsequently tried to give Sylvain a path to get out and then took out McNair while doing so.

IT WAS BLATANT ROBBERY AT A HARNESS TRACK, HAPPENS DAILY.
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burton
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« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2013, 04:02:50 PM »

Morrill was the one who moved the most and caused the problem.
It's obvious because in a race like that Morrill would have lodged an objection if he thought it was Filion's fault.
He didn't.
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« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2013, 04:17:28 PM »

Morrill was the one who moved the most and caused the problem.
It's obvious because in a race like that Morrill would have lodged an objection if he thought it was Filion's fault.
He didn't.

OBJECTION FOR WHAT?   HE WAS DONE AT THAT POINT, AN OBJECTION GETS HIM NOTHING BUT A PISSED OFF FYLION AND PISSED OFF JUDGES.
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burton
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« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2013, 08:38:42 AM »

Morrill was the one who moved the most and caused the problem.
It's obvious because in a race like that Morrill would have lodged an objection if he thought it was Filion's fault.
He didn't.
This writer gets the story right. Good read.
Morrill gets 3 days suspension.


http://www.drf.com/blogs/harness-controversy
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stone162
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« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2013, 08:57:24 AM »

This writer gets the story right. Good read.
Morrill gets 3 days suspension.


http://www.drf.com/blogs/harness-controversy

I agree with the parts about Filion but the Tetrick part is flat out lies and nonsense........Every state has a rule that both feet must be in the stirrups at all times and to say New York doesnt is flat out wrong and it seems like they are trying to protect Timmy T when we all know he violated the rules......here is a ruling from a NY track that shows there is a rule in place against what Timmy T did but these guys who wrote the article cant even do proper fact checking before writing an article/blog that is totally untrue

Rulings

Saturday September 07, 2013

Licensee: JOHN P. CUMMINGS JR
Licensed As: TRAINER-DRIVER
Notice Number: BR 5-2013
Racing Type: Harness
Track: Buffalo Raceway
Notice Date: 01/31/2013
Ruling Type: Fine
Rule(s): 4116.9 (B)
Ruling Text: In the 7th race on Wednesday January 30th 2013, you failed to obey the instructions of a racing official by not keeping both feet in contact with the stirrups in the stretch.
Fined: $50
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Homestretch
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« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2013, 09:03:08 AM »

OBJECTION FOR WHAT?   HE WAS DONE AT THAT POINT, AN OBJECTION GETS HIM NOTHING BUT A PISSED OFF FYLION AND PISSED OFF JUDGES.
Finally, somebody got it right !!!!
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burton
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« Reply #41 on: September 07, 2013, 09:09:04 AM »

Finally, somebody got it right !!!!

The judges.
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Bachst Inn
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« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2013, 12:29:35 PM »

stone162, while anything that Jay Bergman may say or write concerning harness racing should be taken with a grain of salt and are understood to occur through a prism of Joseph A. Faraldo and Frank Drucker asshairs, Derick Giwner has always tried to be a good journalist and friend of the sport.  Perhaps it's your own failings, or agenda, that would prompt you to call Derick a liar when in truth and in fact his entire article was on point and quite accurate.  There does not appear to be any defined rule in New York State prohibiting a harness driver from having a foot free from the stirrup.  Rule 4116.9(B) is a catchall type regulation that mandates a driver to follow the instructions of a racing official at a specific facility.  That could be anything from having clean colors to keeping your fly zipped.

Unless you can share with us that the "grounds rule" for Buffalo is the same at Tioga concerning the foot-stirrups issue, then you haven't even established that Derick made a mistake, much less that he's a liar.  Please let us know.

The Morrill suspension really causes a raised eyebrow here.  I posted previously that there was zero evidence to support any Filion wrongdoing ... tight quarters is not a driving violation ... and yes, Morrill seemed to needlessly react to a very mild and harmless wheel bumping, but young McNair also had his colt in tight with Morrill, by choice, and it cost him dearly.  I understand his thinking ... if he keeps Morrill tight in the two-path then Filion is likely buried, and with his colt pacing strong he's going to get second money or better.  But  tight quarters is tight quarters so you reap what you sow.

No.  I think Morrill caught a very big break here by the WEG officials.  Morrill's driving on this night lacked any intelligence or mental sobriety.  He recklessly blasted his filly, Sudoku, to a suicidal quarter, and half, when that one seemed to have drawn a perfect coverflow position and, indeed, possessed that style of racing.  Why?  His filly was long odds and clearly needed a trip to have any chance at a decent check.  This strategy was terribly ill-advised and totally unforced.  Lucid seems a long way off here.

A few races later Morrill is driving one of the main contenders in a major stakes race from a chosen post and what do we get?  He sits in fourth-under allowing his contending colt to be hopelessly locked in.  He only gains access to the two-path when a breaker scatters the outside flow.  Is this the drive of a clear-thinking sober professional entrusted with a contending colt in a very big stakes race?  Or is this more likely the blurred overcompensation for an earlier cowboy effort, the very type of overcompensation that one sees when following an impaired driver on the roadways?  Indeed, the very same type of overcompensation that we would come to see a few seconds later at the 2:12 to 2:16 mark of the replay.  No, I think Mr. Morrill caught the break of a lifetime here and if by chance I am correct then the question remains, did he deserve it.
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« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2013, 12:41:50 PM »

stone162, while anything that Jay Bergman may say or write concerning harness racing should be taken with a grain of salt and are understood to occur through a prism of Joseph A. Faraldo and Frank Drucker asshairs, Derick Giwner has always tried to be a good journalist and friend of the sport.  Perhaps it's your own failings, or agenda, that would prompt you to call Derick a liar when in truth and in fact his entire article was on point and quite accurate.  There does not appear to be any defined rule in New York State prohibiting a harness driver from having a foot free from the stirrup.  Rule 4116.9(B) is a catchall type regulation that mandates a driver to follow the instructions of a racing official at a specific facility.  That could be anything from having clean colors to keeping your fly zipped.

Unless you can share with us that the "grounds rule" for Buffalo is the same at Tioga concerning the foot-stirrups issue, then you haven't even established that Derick made a mistake, much less that he's a liar.  Please let us know.

The Morrill suspension really causes a raised eyebrow here.  I posted previously that there was zero evidence to support any Filion wrongdoing ... tight quarters is not a driving violation ... and yes, Morrill seemed to needlessly react to a very mild and harmless wheel bumping, but young McNair also had his colt in tight with Morrill, by choice, and it cost him dearly.  I understand his thinking ... if he keeps Morrill tight in the two-path then Filion is likely buried, and with his colt pacing strong he's going to get second money or better.  But  tight quarters is tight quarters so you reap what you sow.

No.  I think Morrill caught a very big break here by the WEG officials.  Morrill's driving on this night lacked any intelligence or mental sobriety.  He recklessly blasted his filly, Sudoku, to a suicidal quarter, and half, when that one seemed to have drawn a perfect coverflow position and, indeed, possessed that style of racing.  Why?  His filly was long odds and clearly needed a trip to have any chance at a decent check.  This strategy was terribly ill-advised and totally unforced.  Lucid seems a long way off here.

A few races later Morrill is driving one of the main contenders in a major stakes race from a chosen post and what do we get?  He sits in fourth-under allowing his contending colt to be hopelessly locked in.  He only gains access to the two-path when a breaker scatters the outside flow.  Is this the drive of a clear-thinking sober professional entrusted with a contending colt in a very big stakes race?  Or is this more likely the blurred overcompensation for an earlier cowboy effort, the very type of overcompensation that one sees when following an impaired driver on the roadways?  Indeed, the very same type of overcompensation that we would come to see a few seconds later at the 2:12 to 2:16 mark of the replay.  No, I think Mr. Morrill caught the break of a lifetime here and if by chance I am correct then the question remains, did he deserve it.
I agree 100% on your take on Morrill that night.
Many have stated he's among the top drivers going.
With that in mind I've kept my eye on him whenever he's in against the big boys this year and he's been pretty poor.
The fact that he got stuck 4th on the rail in a race for that money tells the whole story about him driving with the bog boys.
Does anyone think Sears, Tetrick, Miller, Gingras etc; get stuck 4th on the rail in a race for that kind of money?
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Claiming King
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« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2013, 01:04:50 PM »

and yes, Morrill seemed to needlessly react to a very mild and harmless wheel bumping, but young McNair also had his colt in tight with Morrill, by choice, and it cost him dearly. 

I agree, and from the head on view it looked like McNair's horse was bearing in to some degree. Probably not enough to be a problem under normal circumstances, but when coupled with Morrill jerking hard right you got the situation that occurred.
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stone162
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« Reply #45 on: September 07, 2013, 02:16:26 PM »

stone162, while anything that Jay Bergman may say or write concerning harness racing should be taken with a grain of salt and are understood to occur through a prism of Joseph A. Faraldo and Frank Drucker asshairs, Derick Giwner has always tried to be a good journalist and friend of the sport.  Perhaps it's your own failings, or agenda, that would prompt you to call Derick a liar when in truth and in fact his entire article was on point and quite accurate.  There does not appear to be any defined rule in New York State prohibiting a harness driver from having a foot free from the stirrup.  Rule 4116.9(B) is a catchall type regulation that mandates a driver to follow the instructions of a racing official at a specific facility.  That could be anything from having clean colors to keeping your fly zipped.

Unless you can share with us that the "grounds rule" for Buffalo is the same at Tioga concerning the foot-stirrups issue, then you haven't even established that Derick made a mistake, much less that he's a liar.  Please let us know.

The Morrill suspension really causes a raised eyebrow here.  I posted previously that there was zero evidence to support any Filion wrongdoing ... tight quarters is not a driving violation ... and yes, Morrill seemed to needlessly react to a very mild and harmless wheel bumping, but young McNair also had his colt in tight with Morrill, by choice, and it cost him dearly.  I understand his thinking ... if he keeps Morrill tight in the two-path then Filion is likely buried, and with his colt pacing strong he's going to get second money or better.  But  tight quarters is tight quarters so you reap what you sow.

No.  I think Morrill caught a very big break here by the WEG officials.  Morrill's driving on this night lacked any intelligence or mental sobriety.  He recklessly blasted his filly, Sudoku, to a suicidal quarter, and half, when that one seemed to have drawn a perfect coverflow position and, indeed, possessed that style of racing.  Why?  His filly was long odds and clearly needed a trip to have any chance at a decent check.  This strategy was terribly ill-advised and totally unforced.  Lucid seems a long way off here.

A few races later Morrill is driving one of the main contenders in a major stakes race from a chosen post and what do we get?  He sits in fourth-under allowing his contending colt to be hopelessly locked in.  He only gains access to the two-path when a breaker scatters the outside flow.  Is this the drive of a clear-thinking sober professional entrusted with a contending colt in a very big stakes race?  Or is this more likely the blurred overcompensation for an earlier cowboy effort, the very type of overcompensation that one sees when following an impaired driver on the roadways?  Indeed, the very same type of overcompensation that we would come to see a few seconds later at the 2:12 to 2:16 mark of the replay.  No, I think Mr. Morrill caught the break of a lifetime here and if by chance I am correct then the question remains, did he deserve it.

Dude there are violations at every track in new York for not keeping feet in the stirrups.........since you wanted ground rules here ya go


Rulings

Saturday September 07, 2013

Licensee: JAMES MAROHN JR
Licensed As: DRIVER
Notice Number: TD 3-2013
Racing Type: Harness
Track: Tioga Downs
Notice Date: 05/26/2013
Ruling Type: Fine
Rule(s): 4117.4 binoculars
Ruling Text:
You are hereby fined the sum of $100.00 for violation of rule 4117.4 binoculars.  While driving #2 (KJ's Foxy Lady) in the 1st race on May 25,2013 you did remove your foot from your stirrup and kick your horse.
Fined: $100
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stone162
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« Reply #46 on: September 07, 2013, 02:25:04 PM »

Both Jamieson and Tetrick were already fined for there actions the other night and to stick up for Tetrick when it was plain as day to everyone including the judges and the Usta, who posted a picture of it then removed it, saw him kicking the horse
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Bachst Inn
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« Reply #47 on: September 09, 2013, 12:17:51 PM »

Stone 162,  Derick Giwner never stated that NYS did not have an anti-kicking rule, he stated that he believed Tetrick did not kick his horse.  He did state that it was his belief that NYS does not have a foot-in-stirrups rule, and that is my belief also from my reading of the rules.  You seem to be reluctant to post the actual wording of the Rule you believe exists that prohibits footloose driving throughout NYS.  Why is that?  We could all learn from it.

You see, stone162, unlike Jay Bergman and his ilk, Derick has always been receptive to discussion on any issue he writes about.  Did you ever consider e-mailing him with the Rule Number and contents of said rule?  No, not "rulings" since they are by definition interpretations of existing rules, send him the rule itself.  You know, something like NYS Rule 411?.?(?) states: 

Let us know how you make out.  Heck, it sure beats calling the guy a liar.
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