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Author Topic: Shorter Fairmount meet being discussed for 2014  (Read 1628 times)
dano-themano
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« on: August 27, 2013, 03:12:04 PM »

No details yet... but the word this morning is that FP is considering a cut in racing for 2014, due to the exhaustion of the 3%, actual and potential leglislative issues with adw--combined with the impact of recapture and training costs on the purse account.  They look to keep the same Tuesday/Friday, Tuesday/Friday/Saturday, Tuesday/Friday format with a reduction of about 20 racing dates.

If we race 50 days, that might work out to mid-April to late-August.

Certainly there will be something official out of the hbpa soon, so that horsemen can make plans accordingly.
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Red Ketcher
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« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2013, 10:01:13 AM »


 HBPA website has picture from a few days ago, 8/15/2013, of E.D. Brooks and Gov. Quinn with their arms around each other.

 So why ain't this close relationship paying big dividends for FP Horsemen ? (  Instead Dates Cut ? )

 Who's splitting the pot ?

 Who's representing Who ?
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sparky
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« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2013, 10:09:24 AM »

Word is 50 days.  So much for spreading the 3% to last until 2014, which was originally quoted.  And the additional $780k the purse account received in July from the 10th license.  Where that went is Huh 
Although we did pay the owner of the track 1.1 million to stable there over the winter...but if I remember correctly, the horseman we told it was negotiated down to $800.  Apparently it wasn't.
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dano-themano
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« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2013, 11:52:12 AM »

The lack of communication between the horsemen's association and the horsemen is pathetic.  There are no open meetings, no news releases and no comments on anything--except to the few in the close circle. 

I have been told that we not only face a large reduction in racing days (that could be further reduced if adw is not renewed) but also that we have not reached an agreement on winter training.

All I see is huge crowds on race days, and all I hear is that we cannot fund the purses.  It does not add up. 
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Red Ketcher
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« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2013, 03:04:57 AM »

 
 " Power Corrupts , and Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely "

   (Lord Action)
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2013, 09:10:18 AM »

The lack of communication between the horsemen's association and the horsemen is pathetic.  There are no open meetings, no news releases and no comments on anything--except to the few in the close circle. 

I have been told that we not only face a large reduction in racing days (that could be further reduced if adw is not renewed) but also that we have not reached an agreement on winter training.

All I see is huge crowds on race days, and all I hear is that we cannot fund the purses.  It does not add up. 

You might be getting huge crowds on race day, but they aren't betting much. This past Friday night's crowd put a miserly $72,392 through the windows. Other bettors in Illinois did $23,843. People from out-of-state did $98,066. At the various rates those three sources contribute to purses, your actual live racing product on the track earned maybe $8,000 in purses (before recapture), while out on the track you were running for $50,800. That's the disconnect between what you see for live crowd size, and what actually funds purses.

http://www.equibase.com/static/chart/pdf/FP083013USA.pdf
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songbrook
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« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2013, 09:53:10 AM »

 thumbs up trophy
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2013, 02:33:26 PM »

That's the disconnect between what you see for live crowd size, and what actually funds purses.

Not so very different from "the beautiful people" who attend AP live and think they are somehow entitled to see some Grade I races like the Million and Bev D...but never bet enough as a group to cover the purses AP pays for a card full of cheap claimers.  thumbs down
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The Turf Monster
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« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2013, 04:19:43 PM »

I don't think you're going to find too many tracks where on track handle is going to cover the purses
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Matchtown
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« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2013, 04:23:44 PM »

That is a junk product.......brutal to watch and bet......close it down altogether........
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dano-themano
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« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2013, 08:55:10 PM »

You might be getting huge crowds on race day, but they aren't betting much. This past Friday night's crowd put a miserly $72,392 through the windows. Other bettors in Illinois did $23,843. People from out-of-state did $98,066. At the various rates those three sources contribute to purses, your actual live racing product on the track earned maybe $8,000 in purses (before recapture), while out on the track you were running for $50,800. That's the disconnect between what you see for live crowd size, and what actually funds purses.

http://www.equibase.com/static/chart/pdf/FP083013USA.pdf

The marketing is geared more towards cheap partying and dining, rather than gambling.  Many, many patrons do not even gamble.  So that means the horsemen put on their show for free! 

The handle is very poor, and without the additional sources of revenue, the writing appears to be on the wall for 2015.  I would have given input on stretching out the remaining money over two years, but nobody asked.  Many of the trainers and owners, sadly, would still run for $30k per day.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2013, 06:27:18 AM »

The marketing is geared more towards cheap partying and dining, rather than gambling.  Many, many patrons do not even gamble.  So that means the horsemen put on their show for free! 

How do you market towards gambling with a 20% takeout and several riverboats just a few miles away? There's lots of tracks that would like to know.
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The Turf Monster
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« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2013, 08:32:51 AM »

The marketing isn't the problem, the problem is that the product is terrible and very few people want to bet it
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Earl Sande
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« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2013, 03:49:51 PM »

The marketing isn't the problem, the problem is that the product is terrible and very few people want to bet it

The product didn't stop me from happily pushing a few hundred dollars through the windows Friday night. Sure it's been hard to make any money betting this year, but I'd still rather handicap most of the FP races than anything on the polycrap or grass.
The problem is most of the big bettors are either dead or at the casinos.
We'd better enjoy what little we have while it still lasts.
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The Turf Monster
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« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2013, 07:46:09 PM »

The product didn't stop me from happily pushing a few hundred dollars through the windows Friday night. Sure it's been hard to make any money betting this year, but I'd still rather handicap most of the FP races than anything on the polycrap or grass.
The problem is most of the big bettors are either dead or at the casinos.
We'd better enjoy what little we have while it still lasts.

The problem is that most of the bettors want nothing to do with the FP product.  If you like it in spite of your ROI, good for you - the overwhelming amount of horse players ignore it though
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2013, 08:21:25 PM »

The problem is that most of the bettors want nothing to do with the FP product.  If you like it in spite of your ROI, good for you - the overwhelming amount of horse players ignore it though

The real problem is the overwhelming amount of gamblers ignore all horse racing. It's not a competitive gambling product, from the [perceived] integrity of the game standpoint, from the takeout standpoint, from the action standpoint, from the player rewards standpoint, from the "cruelty" standpoint in modern America, you name it. It was a great gambling game when it was the only gambling game. Now it's just not the choice of most gamblers, in St. Louis OR Chicago.. 
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The Turf Monster
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« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2013, 08:50:52 PM »

The 2 main things affecting FP's handle are the brand and the class of horses/formless races
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brivolta
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« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2013, 09:05:00 PM »

The 2 main things affecting FP's handle are the brand and the class of horses/formless races

Brand, yes. Class not as much. Nw1x races at fp are tough and so are several other races. I jut claimed a horse for 3200 at fp and raced her twice at AP sine. First time out she finished 4th but only missed winning it all by 4 lengths...then won next time out. Fp gets a bad rap but the horses jump up and compete in Chicago. My other mare ran a bang up race Friday in a starter and should have won. Put away te 3/5 favorite. Sorry...but the racin at fp is much tougher than outsiders think.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2013, 12:02:39 AM »

Brand, yes. Class not as much. Nw1x races at fp are tough and so are several other races. I jut claimed a horse for 3200 at fp and raced her twice at AP sine. First time out she finished 4th but only missed winning it all by 4 lengths...then won next time out. Fp gets a bad rap but the horses jump up and compete in Chicago. My other mare ran a bang up race Friday in a starter and should have won. Put away te 3/5 favorite. Sorry...but the racin at fp is much tougher than outsiders think.

What ... a lowly FP horse won at regal Arlington Park?  popcorn

Better keep that news off this forum or the AP huggers constantly talking about "the Arlington Horses" (as if they're some separate breed from "the Hawthorne horses" and "the Fairmount horses" and "the Canterbury horses" and "the PrM horses" etc.) will likely pop a vein.
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The Turf Monster
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« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2013, 06:47:59 AM »

I thought Arlington prohibited horses onto its grounds that last started for a claiming price under $5k?
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brivolta
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« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2013, 07:13:47 AM »

I thought Arlington prohibited horses onto its grounds that last started for a claiming price under $5k?

I think the condition book says they had to have finished in the top four or something ridiculous
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2013, 09:37:54 AM »

I thought Arlington prohibited horses onto its grounds that last started for a claiming price under $5k?

Shows you how much that exclusion really means.
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The Turf Monster
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« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2013, 09:48:35 AM »

Shows you how much that exclusion really means.

With field size the way it is, it's only a matter of time until we see $2500 claimers at both of the Chicago tracks
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2013, 11:19:10 AM »

With field size the way it is, it's only a matter of time until we see $2500 claimers at both of the Chicago tracks

I'm sure you already do, regularly. The bottom level claiming class at both tracks is merely the lowest claiming price available. It means nothing as far as ability. You could have horses running in there that wouldn't hardly be competitive at $1500 on a fair track.

And that is, incidentally, why a drop of a semi-competitive horse from next-to-the-bottom claiming class into rock bottom is such a powerful angle.
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dano-themano
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« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2013, 05:26:54 PM »

Back on topic....

I just read in the Post-Dispatch that management requested the 52-day meet, due to the IRB's budget issues related to ADW and that the IRB could come back with as few as 40 at the dates meeting.

At the same time, 2 folks close to the HBPA have told me that the 52 or fewer is a horsemen's association decision, based on the depletion of the purse fund.

It would be nice to know whether either, both or neither of these is the reason for the cut to the fewest racing days in Fairmount Park history.  But what we do have now is confirmation that we will have at least a 25% cut in racing for 2014.

This year was the toughest meet I have seen, and I can only imagine all of these guys trying to make a living with 40 race days.
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