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Author Topic: Million Day handle  (Read 903 times)
HorseVoice*
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« on: August 20, 2013, 10:28:20 AM »

Fast calculations, with numbers derived from race pools shown on Equibase chart, show about $15.2 million.

For comparison, Del Mar had $8.2 million (not even close even with 2 less races factored in), and Saratoga had $15.4 million.

Anyone else wonder what AP's handle *would* have been if they didn't take $690,000* right out of patrons pockets before they ever made a bet?

 doh

* ~34,500 attendance x $20 per admission
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The Turf Monster
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« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2013, 10:33:55 AM »

What's the average takeout?  20%?  Do you think each of the patrons would have gambled an additional $100 if they didn't pay $20 admission?
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2013, 10:55:57 AM »

What's the average takeout?  20%?  Do you think each of the patrons would have gambled an additional $100 if they didn't pay $20 admission?

Have no idea, but if that money went through the windows just once, instead of right into CDI / RLDs pockets, the horsemen's purse account would have picked up another ~$50K....on a day where even $15 million in handle wasn't enough to cover what was paid out in purses.

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The Turf Monster
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« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2013, 11:04:05 AM »

Just imagine how many times we could talk about extra money in the purse account if the horsemen weren't dead set on avoiding each other at all costs.  A few horses a day shipping to Indiana, a handful up to Canterbury, some shipping out to Iowa, etc all hurts Illinois handle and the purse account.  I'm not going to criticize AP for trying to make money on its biggest day of the year.....since people have no problem paying it
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Grinder
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« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2013, 11:27:30 AM »

Should we be happy to see the huge crowd of 34,500 fans showing up, or disappointed AP charged $20 admission. 
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The more you bet...the more you win
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« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2013, 11:39:00 AM »

Should we be happy to see the huge crowd of 34,500 fans showing up, or disappointed AP charged $20 admission. 

Ask the horsemen -- my purse account didn't just take a huge hit, so I don't care.
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Klink
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« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2013, 12:31:46 PM »

I know it's not HVs point, but 34,500 people did not pay $20/piece to get in.
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bnlong
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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2013, 12:57:04 PM »

 34,500 people proves a nice day, great race card with promotion leading up to the event will bring out the casual fan.

They all could have gone to the Air & water show for free. (1.7 million ? yeah right)
Admission, take out etc. doesn't matter people chose the track, how can that be bad?
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2013, 01:13:30 PM »

Admission, take out etc. doesn't matter people chose the track, how can that be bad?

Again, ask the horsemen.

Has AP ever experienced a post-Million Day bump in attendance and / or wagering?

If not, all of this Big Stakes Day stuff is just a self-tribute to RLD, and Cash For Carpetbaggers: how many of these "casual fans" that came out realize that we just gave Ken Ramsey a HUGE chunk of the local purse account, and for what benefit to Illinois racing? Does he ever race here during the rest of the year?

What nonsense. The "Illinois Stakes" days are far more productive and meaningful to the local product; more of those, and less "Filthy Rich Friends of Dick".
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The Turf Monster
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« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2013, 01:34:59 PM »

I don't remember HV criticizing Hawthorne for throwing $750,000 at a pointless race that was only seen in person by a few thousand people this spring
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bnlong
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« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2013, 01:41:31 PM »

None of the Stakes excluded IL. Breds? Ramsy does race here and I believe foals a few in IL. also.

With the dwindling number of mares foaling in IL. there will be no local product to even fill races.

No post Million bump in attendance might be because its back to the same old local product day in and out.

That one day helps to keep IL & Arlington however minor, relevant in racing locally and on the world stage.

 
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2013, 01:43:18 PM »

I don't remember HV criticizing Hawthorne for throwing $750,000 at a pointless race that was only seen in person by a few thousand people this spring

About 20 other people here beat me to it; strangely, all of those posters suddenly have arthritis, or no Internet connection, or...something.  dunno
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2013, 01:48:19 PM »

That one day helps to keep IL & Arlington however minor, relevant in racing locally and on the world stage.

You've been inhaling fumes from the AP Marketing dept. for too long.

"Relevant"? A curiosity, perhaps.

Hell, our own local "Superstation" couldn't even be bothered to hang around until the Million was declared "official".  doh
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faster horses
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« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2013, 09:29:19 PM »

None of the Stakes excluded IL. Breds? Ramsy does race here and I believe foals a few in IL. also.

With the dwindling number of mares foaling in IL. there will be no local product to even fill races.

No post Million bump in attendance might be because its back to the same old local product day in and out.

That one day helps to keep IL & Arlington however minor, relevant in racing locally and on the world stage.

 

I agree.  If you don't put on a big day, you don't count. And if you don't count, your brand suffers. It's not like in-state owners and breeders haven't participated.  This year, Coalport won on the Million card for the Ramseys (albeit not a "Million Day" race), and Block won an undercard stakes race (the Hatoof) with I O Ireland.  Block has also run second in the American St. Leger with both  Suntracer (this year) and Ioyabigtime (last year).  And Hernandez Racing Club took a shot at the Beverly D. with La Tia.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2013, 02:00:48 AM »

Just imagine how many times we could talk about extra money in the purse account if the horsemen weren't dead set on avoiding each other at all costs.  A few horses a day shipping to Indiana, a handful up to Canterbury, some shipping out to Iowa, etc all hurts Illinois handle and the purse account.  I'm not going to criticize AP for trying to make money on its biggest day of the year.....since people have no problem paying it

Million Day is the one day of the season the higher admission is justified. The racing is the star, and they do a damn good job of that day.
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2013, 06:07:10 AM »

Million Day is the one day of the season the higher admission is justified. The racing is the star, and they do a damn good job of that day.

Saratoga charges half the price on Travers Day, handles twice the crowd with grace and aplomb, and puts on a spectacular Grade I filled card of national relevance.

You and all the other AP-huggers can get over it. It was no big deal for anyone else than Arlington itself, which apparently can handle 30K in patrons without self-imploding into a cascade of overflowing toilets and empty beer stands. Finally.
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dontdoit
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« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2013, 07:46:49 AM »

Fast calculations, with numbers derived from race pools shown on Equibase chart, show about $15.2 million.

For comparison, Del Mar had $8.2 million (not even close even with 2 less races factored in), and Saratoga had $15.4 million.

Anyone else wonder what AP's handle *would* have been if they didn't take $690,000* right out of patrons pockets before they ever made a bet?

 doh

* ~34,500 attendance x $20 per admission

The Saratoga handle for Saturday was $24.3 million.
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2013, 08:45:44 AM »

The Saratoga handle for Saturday was $24.3 million.

 doh

It's been so long since I've seen handle numbers published at the bottom of an Arlington Park chart that I forgot how to read them. (Yeah, that'll fly, won't it?)

Which means...yep, I got the Del Mar handle wrong, too: corrected number looks like $16.9 million.

Nice catch, Mr. Serling.  thumbs up


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HarnessFanDE
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« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2013, 09:01:02 AM »

Seriously does anyone believe that a guy coming there to seriously bet the races deducted the $20 admission out of his gambling bankroll? Im going out on a limb and say he brought an extra $20 with him......I will say this if someone went bust then it could have made a difference in handle because if they had that extra $20 they might have pulled a miracle and then churned some serious money.....So the only handle that was affected by the admission cost is "potential" handle of people who went broke
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SHOWTIME!!!
honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2013, 09:13:04 AM »

Saratoga charges half the price on Travers Day, handles twice the crowd with grace and aplomb, and puts on a spectacular Grade I filled card of national relevance.

That's nice. NYRA is also a not-for-profit, and Saratoga is owned by the State.

Quote
You and all the other AP-huggers can get over it.

You're calling ME an AP hugger now?

 laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy

AP does an excellent job with Million Day, each and every year. An admission price higher than normal is justified, on that one day when they put on great racing.

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It was no big deal for anyone else than Arlington itself, which apparently can handle 30K in patrons without self-imploding into a cascade of overflowing toilets and empty beer stands. Finally

What does this gibberish have to do with anything?
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2013, 10:41:18 AM »

That's nice. NYRA is also a not-for-profit, and Saratoga is owned by the State.

Good point.

It's interesting that government CAN do something better than private enterprise; man, I didn't think I could possibly think any LESS of AP/CDI. Wow.

You're calling ME an AP hugger now?

Yeah, if you are going to try to float this nonsense past everyone here:

AP does an excellent job with Million Day, each and every year.

Maybe they got better in recent years -- I haven't been there in over 10 years -- but I remember the Million days when they couldn't handle the crowd if it was much over 30,000. (Oh, I'm quite sure things were just peachy up in the Million Room  Roll Eyes )
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2013, 10:50:24 AM »

Good point.

It's interesting that government CAN do something better than private enterprise; man, I didn't think I could possibly think any LESS of AP/CDI. Wow.

NYRA also went bankrupt, did it not? And stiffed a whole bunch of creditors? At least for-profit CDI has not done that.

Ah yes, here is is right here:
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/36188/nyra-seeks-bankruptcy-protection-from-court

Quote
Maybe they got better in recent years -- I haven't been there in over 10 years -- but I remember the Million days when they couldn't handle the crowd if it was much over 30,000. (Oh, I'm quite sure things were just peachy up in the Million Room  Roll Eyes )

I'm talking about the racing, and the whole presentation. That's what's worth the added admission. It's why the BC can charge an arm and a leg, too. The experience at a BC is generally no stroll in the park when you're talking lines and overcrowding.
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2013, 11:03:15 AM »

I'm talking about the racing, and the whole presentation. That's what's worth the added admission.

Good gawd, Dave Zenner owes you a double-saw for that little puff piece.

When was the last time YOU paid a premium admission price at AP, just to stand in endless lines to buy beer, and then again, later, to give it back?

199_?

Earlier?

 laughing guy
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TheRedMile
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« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2013, 11:18:53 AM »

Saratoga charges half the price on Travers Day, handles twice the crowd with grace and aplomb, and puts on a spectacular Grade I filled card of national relevance.

You and all the other AP-huggers can get over it. It was no big deal for anyone else than Arlington itself, which apparently can handle 30K in patrons without self-imploding into a cascade of overflowing toilets and empty beer stands. Finally.

i do think ap overcharged for admission but attendence i think was still up over last year.just remember the same type of folks have been filling wrigley for yrs.so ap does know it's audience.
as far as saratoga handling tiwce as many people they should.the grandstand is much bigger.ii think attendance are skewed there on their big days because they have giveaways.people pay multiple times to get decent soveniers.
imo saratoga should have 60,000 or more for this week's travers.based on the field if not it would be a disappointment
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2013, 11:31:16 AM »

i do think ap overcharged for admission but attendence i think was still up over last year.just remember the same type of folks have been filling wrigley for yrs.so ap does know it's audience.

Excellent comparison, 'tross. For AP and Wrigley Field attendees that have more money than brains, the concept of "value" is less important than "seeing and being seen" at trendy events...in stupid hats and other garb that you wouldn't wear anywhere else in public.

as far as saratoga handling tiwce as many people they should.the grandstand is much bigger.ii think attendance are skewed there on their big days because they have giveaways.people pay multiple times to get decent soveniers.
imo saratoga should have 60,000 or more for this week's travers.based on the field if not it would be a disappointment

Maybe Mr. Serling can chime in on this one, but I don't think Saratoga does the admission "spinner" fake count thing any more.

The last time I was there for a giveaway (t-shirts), I paid just one admission fee, went through the turnstiles once, and then paid ? (like $3 or something, trivial amount) for each extra t-shirt I wanted.

So, if NYRA says they got 60,000 for The Travers, that is a real number.
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