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Author Topic: hi Mom! That will be $12  (Read 2314 times)
bnlong
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« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2013, 09:55:27 AM »

Easily cleared 20,000 The track apron was packed as were most of the upper floors.
Yes in my mind it should be free, The reality is the $12 & costs only matters to people worried about their ROI.
Its entertainment. Yes prices are high, What entertainment from amusement parks, zoos, concerts to sports has reasonable prices?
all those lil munchkins in tow with mom & dad on days like yesterday is where tommorrows racing fan is coming from.
They also do bet, the lines were long & I would venture the handle could of been 25 % higher with more live clerks.
I for one found the card disappointing by the lack of competitive fields from a betting standpoint, But that doesn't matter to the masses.
The ones that were betting happily bet the next race and the one after that, some made money some didn't.
The crowd seemed to stay to the end and as they exited out the gate I doubt if anyone felt like they were raped.


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beobob
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« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2013, 09:59:35 AM »

$12 is a lot to pay to get in, but it is the consumer that decides how much is too much.  If they had 20K out in that cold yesterday, the $12 admission didn't hurt them.  Every sports/amusement franchise tries to get as much for admission as they can without it effecting attendance.

If AP gets about 7 cents for every dollar wagered, a family would have to bet about $425 for AP to get the same $30 or so a family pays to get it.  Assuming they stick around for 7 races, that's about $60 a race.  Don't know too many cooler families that bet like that.  AP makes money off them for admission and wagering $$$ is a bonus - sounds like a sound business plan to me.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2013, 10:37:08 AM »

(And, to freeze their asses off, too, don't forget. Yum.)

How many in attendance today? Used to be 25,000 to 30,000 for Mother's Day, standard...but when the cameramen avoid showing shots of the grandstand like they did today, my suspicion is that attendance was disappointing.

The word from spy central was "jammed". Said spy had to park in the Trackside lot.

So, cool weather or no, the primal urge of the NW suburbanite to pay $12 to see and be seen at a racetrack on Mothers' Day won out.

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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2013, 10:39:27 AM »

these are the pools as listed on Xpressbet
    wps-exotic
1) 93973-138528
2) 125862-169045
3) 125109-206193
4) 126984-212850
5) 129474-185138
6) 123205-160768
7) 123717-181907
8) 113793-162126
9) 122724-171605

That seems like about half again as big as a normal day, the ones that attract 6,000 or so.
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« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2013, 10:46:23 AM »

$12 is a lot to pay to get in, but it is the consumer that decides how much is too much.  If they had 20K out in that cold yesterday, the $12 admission didn't hurt them.  Every sports/amusement franchise tries to get as much for admission as they can without it effecting attendance.

If AP gets about 7 cents for every dollar wagered, a family would have to bet about $425 for AP to get the same $30 or so a family pays to get it.  Assuming they stick around for 7 races, that's about $60 a race.  Don't know too many cooler families that bet like that.  AP makes money off them for admission and wagering $$$ is a bonus - sounds like a sound business plan to me.

It's a business practice that helps AP make money. It's not a business practice the encourages families to wager more earning more purse money to attract better horses and even more wagering. When the family of 4 has a $48 admission charge, $5 cooler charge, and $4 (?) program charge up front, that's a pretty big overhead nut slapping them in the face just to walk in. And then whatever concessions.

If you had to pay White Sox parking and tickets to get in and were immediately down $160, how much wagering would you be doing on top of that? There's the fault in the logic of the comparison. The Sox and Cubs hit you big on the way in, but you're then not expected to keep on spending more money to support the show on the field.
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
bnlong
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« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2013, 11:04:37 AM »

Not scientific But I did hear a "dad" say "after paying to get in,the food and everything we made $80"
So its a possible entertainment option that can pay for itself. That fan had a good day & will come back.
The profit was an unexpected bonus & had he lost I don't think it would have mattered.
With or with out slots we need ANY TYPE of racing fans to survive.
And if the slots don't materialise even more.
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brianwspencer
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« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2013, 11:12:00 AM »

The crowd seemed to stay to the end and as they exited out the gate I doubt if anyone felt like they were raped.

At the risk of being crowned the oversensitive king of Nofunville, I feel like mentioning that I would imagine nobody felt like they were "raped" because voluntarily paying $12 admission is nothing like being sexually assaulted.

Given that roughly 1 in 5 women will at some point in their life be a victim of a sexual assault, there is a statistical certainty that more than a small handful of women at Arlington on Sunday would have a pretty good idea of just how far apart those two things are.

Blah blah blah, it's a colloquialism, I know -- I just think it's a terrible one.
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bnlong
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« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2013, 11:21:35 AM »

Allow me the standard apology. Statements made by me may have been offensive to some, NONE was intended I sincerely apologize to anyone that was offended. Should I continue to offend please just ignore me.
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beobob
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« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2013, 11:37:31 AM »

It's a business practice that helps AP make money.

If you had to pay White Sox parking and tickets to get in and were immediately down $160, how much wagering would you be doing on top of that? There's the fault in the logic of the comparison. The Sox and Cubs hit you big on the way in, but you're then not expected to keep on spending more money to support the show on the field.

I never compared AP to other sports teams, it is apples and oranges.  However, any place that charges admission is always seeking the level that maximizes revenue.  I agree that any dollar spent to get in and for food is a dollar not available to wager, but there is no guarantee that it would be wagered.  Who determines what a "fair" price is?  I think it is the consumer, and it appears that $12 didn't keep them away.

Every racing venue charges what they can because it's guaranteed money they don't have to split. If HAW could charge $10, they would.  Tampa is free during the week but they charge on weekends because they can.  I think $12 is too much, but 20K didn't. Even if they chopped the price in half, I don't know that you would see that big of a jump in attendance or onsite handle.
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2013, 11:50:42 AM »

When the family of 4 has a $48 admission charge, $5 cooler charge, and $4 (?) program charge up front, that's a pretty big overhead nut slapping them in the face.

 laughing guy

Instant classic, and it will forever be my mental image of anyone foolish enough to pay $12 to walk in to AP.

I just hope your comment doesn't get sacked!  Grin
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2013, 02:12:14 PM »

laughing guy

Instant classic, and it will forever be my mental image of anyone foolish enough to pay $12 to walk in to AP.

I just hope your comment doesn't get sacked!  Grin

I wondered whose mind would be sick enough to see it that way. laughing guy
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« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2013, 03:18:17 PM »

At the risk of being crowned the oversensitive king of Nofunville, I feel like mentioning that I would imagine nobody felt like they were "raped" because voluntarily paying $12 admission is nothing like being sexually assaulted.

Given that roughly 1 in 5 women will at some point in their life be a victim of a sexual assault, there is a statistical certainty that more than a small handful of women at Arlington on Sunday would have a pretty good idea of just how far apart those two things are.

Blah blah blah, it's a colloquialism, I know -- I just think it's a terrible one.
C'mon Brian, with all the knowledge and insight you can give to this board, that's what you come up with? Weak sauce. Be mindful next time you're on the air with Joe K. and mention the runner you like that 'Killed', 'Slaughtered', or 'Creamed' his competition last time out. Unless it was a filly in against the boys...then it's cool.
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brianwspencer
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« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2013, 04:00:01 PM »

C'mon Brian, with all the knowledge and insight you can give to this board, that's what you come up with? Weak sauce. Be mindful next time you're on the air with Joe K. and mention the runner you like that 'Killed', 'Slaughtered', or 'Creamed' his competition last time out. Unless it was a filly in against the boys...then it's cool.

I don't say words like killed and slaughtered anywhere when I'm talking about horse racing.

I'm sorry if it seems out of place, and perhaps it was wildly off topic, but I don't think it's "weak sauce" as a rule to point out what is a really awful euphamism. To disagree is fully your call, and totally fine with me.
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bnlong
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« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2013, 05:00:12 PM »


Or maybe you also took offense that I pointed out on a public forum

That an uninformed soccer dad could have a higher ROI than a "professional tip sheet tout"
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nmslim
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« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2013, 07:00:05 PM »

The participation trophy generation has a lot of folks so scared to speak on the chance they might offend someone.No one with half a brain(twice as much as me)is offended by words.There are many more grownups in the world than the people who sniff and whine and say,"words hurt." Grow a pair. Oh, was that offensive? If a place charges too much,don't go back,or avoid it all together.
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PURPLE LAVERN
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« Reply #40 on: May 13, 2013, 07:28:57 PM »

From what I heard the place was packed-
You insinuated that was 10,000 patrons short but not sure what you are basing that on.

I do know AP is the only track that I take my entire family to when one of my horses runs...they sit in the box, watch TV, & eat over priced food.

My stance has somewhat changed & think IL needs year round racing that includes Hawthorne.......
It would be nice if everyone could get on the same page & stop fighting each other although probably wishful thinking.


Thanks for the compliment though  (I think ) when being compared to John Frank....For one thing,  I do not wear jean shorts maroon
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Mick
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« Reply #41 on: May 13, 2013, 07:35:15 PM »

My sister wanted to go out with her family after lunch with my mom.   It as 3:00 pm but I told her to hold off.

She has four kids and a husband.   Mom and I make 8 people so if we arrived at 3:30 we would pay $96 to see the seventh race and just maybe the sixth.    We showed up at 4:15 pm and played the eighth and ninth.  Mom hit a trifecta and I don't think that most people won something and no one lost much.  

I think it's friggin ridiculous that AP charges as much as they do and then have the nerve to charge more for those good soulds who celebrate Mom's day.   That said, a business is a business and the folks at AP have to do what they must to survive and maintain the nicest looking track in North America.   With slots I would almost guarantee that you would have free entry.

    
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« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2013, 08:22:30 PM »

My stance has somewhat changed & think IL needs year round racing that includes Hawthorne.......
It would be nice if everyone could get on the same page & stop fighting each other although probably wishful thinking.

You are right, Lavern. It wouldn't be good for Illinois or Chicago-area racing to have just one track for a couple of months each year. Right now, there's a lot of concern about California racing with Hollywood shutting down. I've read it's scheduled for demolition in January. What a shame.

Here's what beobob said about the situation between Gulfstream and Calder:

If I was in South Florida my concern would be Calder losing profitability to the point where CDI has no incentive to keep it open.  Even if they hate CDI, I don't think that it would be in the best interest of FL horsemen to lose competition between those 2 tracks.  Monopolies tend to only benefit the guy in the top hat.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2013, 09:12:19 PM »

Or maybe you also took offense that I pointed out on a public forum that an uninformed soccer dad could have a higher ROI than a "professional tip sheet tout"

Please point us to where that soccer dad's picks are/were posted prior to the races, so we can see if that's really true.

A newt "could" have a higher ROI than you, too, but it's impossible to tell without seeing your long term picks or the newt's.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #44 on: May 13, 2013, 09:15:14 PM »

My sister wanted to go out with her family after lunch with my mom.   It as 3:00 pm but I told her to hold off.

She has four kids and a husband.   Mom and I make 8 people so if we arrived at 3:30 we would pay $96 to see the seventh race and just maybe the sixth.    We showed up at 4:15 pm and played the eighth and ninth.  Mom hit a trifecta and I don't think that most people won something and no one lost much.  

I think it's friggin ridiculous that AP charges as much as they do and then have the nerve to charge more for those good soulds who celebrate Mom's day.   That said, a business is a business and the folks at AP have to do what they must to survive and maintain the nicest looking track in North America.   With slots I would almost guarantee that you would have free entry.    

Geez it used to be if you came after the 7th (?) you got in free. Now they're even charging full boat for two races?

Mr. D must need a vintage Louis XIV chandelier for that yacht, or something.
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« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2013, 06:09:32 AM »

Geez it used to be if you came after the 7th (?) you got in free. Now they're even charging full boat for two races?

Mr. D must need a vintage Louis XIV chandelier for that yacht, or something.
He's saying they went after the 7th so they wouldn't have to pay. Still free for the late double.
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Louie Weedelbaum
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« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2013, 07:12:21 AM »

Let's say admission were free (which it should be) 95% of those who attended would have taken the $12 admission fee and just bet it through the windows or spend it on food and drinks anyway so they'd get the $12 no matter what and the people would think they got a bargain.
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« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2013, 07:18:06 AM »

Louie, of that $12, how much profit does AP make if it is wagered vs spent on admission?
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« Reply #48 on: May 14, 2013, 08:00:54 AM »

Louie, of that $12, how much profit does AP make if it is wagered vs spent on admission?

Can't look at it that way, unless it is your belief that everyone that doesn't pay the $12 admission will only wager it once (or worse, not at all).

Think "churn".
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« Reply #49 on: May 14, 2013, 08:15:16 AM »

It's gonna take a lot of "churn" to equal the admission profit margin. What about the poor guy who loses his whole $12 on his first bet?
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