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Author Topic: Jon Court Sucked today  (Read 3308 times)
HorseVoice*
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« Reply #50 on: May 08, 2013, 02:30:05 PM »

HV, You might be right and I may have too much faith in this animal but I think he's the most talented horse in the TC. He will be the best horse over the next year IMHO. Am I crazy as hell? We'll see. We'll see in about 10 days!

This horse has talent, no doubt about it...but he is so FRICKIN' HUGE!!

Enormous size can really work against a racehorse in a large field, and...

...yes, Pimlico *does* have tight turns, according to the JOCKEYS that ride there -- screw Watchmaker's opinion, when was the last time (or the first time) that fat slob was ever on a horse?

It's the banking of the turns that reportedly creates the "tight and snug" feeling; taking a snapshot of one oval and laying it over another just shows what an idiot Watchmaker is: horse racing is three-dimensional and LIVE, not two-dimensional and theoretical.  screwy 

Watchmaker should stick to what he does best: picking LOSERS, at short, unappealing prices.
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STIVO
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« Reply #51 on: May 08, 2013, 03:39:13 PM »

He is a chalk-dog. I'll give you that. Him and George Segal on HRTV.
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Wilson
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« Reply #52 on: May 11, 2013, 12:30:58 AM »

Lukas is trying to blame Court for his mistakes. He has been Down on Jon since Titletown Five did not fare well at the Louisiana Derby. Titletown is a sub par horse but has some deep pocket owners. Court has given Lukas most of his big wins this year including a great ride over Oxbow in the Rebel. If Court had been on Oxbow, WTC would have been lucky to be 2nd to him. Donna Brothers said on National TV just before the horses got to the gate that Will Take Charge seems to have left his race in the Post parade, meaning he had foamed up and expended to much energy because he was excited. Had Lukas ran him in the Arkansas Derby he would have been better prepared for the crowd as well as probably $600,000 richer. (Court won 2 or the last 3 AR Derbys, but had no mount on one this year) But Lukas wanted Calumet farmís Oxbow to win that race. Maybe it is not a Jockey change, but a trainer change that is needed.
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STIVO
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« Reply #53 on: May 11, 2013, 06:29:35 PM »

Lukas is trying to blame Court for his mistakes. He has been Down on Jon since Titletown Five did not fare well at the Louisiana Derby. Titletown is a sub par horse but has some deep pocket owners. Court has given Lukas most of his big wins this year including a great ride over Oxbow in the Rebel. If Court had been on Oxbow, WTC would have been lucky to be 2nd to him. Donna Brothers said on National TV just before the horses got to the gate that Will Take Charge seems to have left his race in the Post parade, meaning he had foamed up and expended to much energy because he was excited. Had Lukas ran him in the Arkansas Derby he would have been better prepared for the crowd as well as probably $600,000 richer. (Court won 2 or the last 3 AR Derbys, but had no mount on one this year) But Lukas wanted Calumet farmís Oxbow to win that race. Maybe it is not a Jockey change, but a trainer change that is needed.

Watch the Blimp view of the stretch. That is why Jon got replaced. He's not a big money rider. If Borel was on WTC, he may have won the damn race. With Jon, 8th.
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afleet
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« Reply #54 on: May 11, 2013, 06:44:46 PM »

Watch the Blimp view of the stretch. That is why Jon got replaced. He's not a big money rider. If Borel was on WTC, he may have won the damn race. With Jon, 8th.
liquidate your 401k and fire WTC in the Preakness.  He's the wiseguy horse, but still should get a good price
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Wilson
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« Reply #55 on: May 11, 2013, 06:48:56 PM »

He had to check hard when Verrazano veered suddenly instead of maintaining his path.  No way that could have been predicted.  If Jon had not been on him in the Rebel, he would have not won that race.  Jon scored all the derby points for WTC and most for Oxbow.  I think all but one of Lukas's graded wins this year were thanks to Court.  Will Take Charge should have been in the Arkansas Derby. Maybe then he would not have been washed out for the KD.  He would have easily won the Ark Derby.  Oxbow should have won it but Stephens screwed that up.  Oxbow should have stuck with the Louisana Derby but Lukas was trying to pull points out of his butt with Title Town 5, (Who has no business in the Preakness, but should be in a NW1X Sprint at Churchill).  Lukas in not the trainer he used to be, but will use up a horse to try to prove he is.  He still talks a good game and doesn't seem to keep any jockeys more than about a year.  He started using Court after Court gave a grade ride to Optimizer last year for 2nd in the Rebel to put him in the KD. But Court cannot always make Lukas look better than he is.  
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STIVO
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« Reply #56 on: May 11, 2013, 08:45:51 PM »

I thought Lukas did a magnificent job training WTC up to the Derby. The horse was ready and ran big. Even after he "washed out", Jon still wasn't ready at the top of the lane and had zero feel. Everyone knew that Verrazano was spent....Jon didn't. He should have floated Orb out or go inside. Instead, he gashed Verrazano's hocks into a bloody mess!
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Wilson
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« Reply #57 on: May 11, 2013, 09:36:33 PM »

I thought Lukas did a magnificent job training WTC up to the Derby. The horse was ready and ran big. Even after he "washed out", Jon still wasn't ready at the top of the lane and had zero feel. Everyone knew that Verrazano was spent....Jon didn't. He should have floated Orb out or go inside. Instead, he gashed Verrazano's hocks into a bloody mess!

I think Jon knew Verrazono was spent.  He had WTC wide enough to pass most of the tiring horses.  I guess it is impossible to know what a spent horse will do, but I think most maintain a fairly steady course.  I guess Donna Brothers didn't know what she was talking about in her report just before they loaded.  The horse must have been fit cause Lukas said he was. 
I am for the horse.  It is Arkansas owned and won me a bunch, including the exacta and late dd in the Rebel. 
I have seen Lukas overhype, and over work horses to get his name in the news.  Dublin was a good example. 
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STIVO
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« Reply #58 on: May 11, 2013, 09:56:19 PM »

What is it that you're saying? The horse runs better washed out? Did you watch the replay?
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Wilson
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« Reply #59 on: May 11, 2013, 10:39:51 PM »

What is it that you're saying? The horse runs better washed out? Did you watch the replay?
I have watched the replays several times, all angles.  Unlucky trip, Court not to blame.  Also, Lukas is over hyping and blaming Court to cover the fact that the layoff was too long and the horse was ill prepared for the crowd. 
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STIVO
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« Reply #60 on: May 11, 2013, 11:36:35 PM »

Watch how Mike Smith rides him in the Preakness.
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Wilson
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« Reply #61 on: May 12, 2013, 01:23:15 AM »

Watch how Mike Smith rides him in the Preakness.
He should get a better trip with a fast track and less traffic.  He should also be a bit sharper 2nd off a layoff and should be more comfortable with the crowd.  I hope Smith doesn't use him to much to early as he has a tendency to do.  He should keep him just behind the 2nd flight and start picking them off half way through the turn. 
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #62 on: May 12, 2013, 08:04:36 AM »

Watch how Mike Smith rides him in the Preakness.

Once he is outside the rail path, Smith WILL NOT go back inside, no matter how "open" it might be.

Add in rain, mud flying around, a horse tightening him up on the right, and a horse puking in front of him, and Mike Smith will look an awful lot like Jon Court.

In fact, Smith is less likely to take any chances than Court, so you are looking at a potentially timid and ineffective ride on a big strapping beast of a colt.

Pray for a perfect trip and perfect weather in Baltimore next Saturday...and if 3 or 4 horses that are already faster than WTC show up with less than their A game, it wouldn't hurt.
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STIVO
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« Reply #63 on: May 12, 2013, 11:49:23 AM »

Once he is outside the rail path, Smith WILL NOT go back inside, no matter how "open" it might be.

Add in rain, mud flying around, a horse tightening him up on the right, and a horse puking in front of him, and Mike Smith will look an awful lot like Jon Court.

In fact, Smith is less likely to take any chances than Court, so you are looking at a potentially timid and ineffective ride on a big strapping beast of a colt.

Pray for a perfect trip and perfect weather in Baltimore next Saturday...and if 3 or 4 horses that are already faster than WTC show up with less than their A game, it wouldn't hurt.

So, Jon Court is a better Jock than Mike Smith? Or, are you at least saying this is a lateral move? Explain. Also, the only "Faster" horse that I'm worried about is Orb.
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #64 on: May 12, 2013, 12:22:16 PM »

So, Jon Court is a better Jock than Mike Smith? Or, are you at least saying this is a lateral move? Explain.

I'm saying that under the circumstances Court faced in the Derby, Smith would have done exactly the same thing; he simply doesn't take any risks out on the track anymore.

The idea touted earlier in the thread that Court could have "floated Orb out" is a fantasy -- there simply was no room to do this without possibly causing a wreck, and to keep insisting that Court "could have gone inside" belies a certain lack of perspective about what it is to be a race rider.

(Certainly, you don't change lanes on a crowded expressway without having a peek back to see if you have room; Court didn't even have time to take a peek!)
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afleet
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« Reply #65 on: May 12, 2013, 01:09:13 PM »

Watch how Mike Smith rides him in the Preakness.

He did a great job on Palice malice
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Trainer Rusty
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« Reply #66 on: May 12, 2013, 01:57:18 PM »

This thread is popular.
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STIVO
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« Reply #67 on: May 12, 2013, 06:25:59 PM »

Bump......lol. This thread is nuts. It all started with my rant and vent. I'm sure Jon Court wishes he had done something different at the very least guys....trust me!
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Trainer Rusty
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« Reply #68 on: May 12, 2013, 10:50:35 PM »

Many people must agree to be checking it out.  Or angry Court fans?
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TheRedMile
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« Reply #69 on: May 13, 2013, 06:09:18 AM »

i maybe in the minority here but i do not see will take charge winning any g1 events this yr at 1 1/8 mile and up
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Wilson
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« Reply #70 on: May 13, 2013, 09:05:28 PM »

i maybe in the minority here but i do not see will take charge winning any g1 events this yr at 1 1/8 mile and up


It just seems to me that Lukas was more concerned about his other horses.  Why pass up a G 1 on a track the horse won 2 of his last 3 starts including a Grade 2 win in the Rebel.  The Ark Derby was 4 weeks after the Rebel, and 3 weeks before the KD, the perfect time to run.   Lukas wanted Oxbow to win Ark Derby.  Oxbow should have stayed in the Fair Ground Series where he had won the Grade 3 Le Comete and finished a close up 4th in the Risen Star (both with Court up).  But Lukas wanted Title Town Five and their prominent owners Paul Hornung to have a chance there in the Louisana Derby.   
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STIVO
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« Reply #71 on: May 14, 2013, 07:51:36 AM »

i maybe in the minority here but i do not see will take charge winning any g1 events this yr at 1 1/8 mile and up


What makes you say that? He has never run over 1 1/8th until the Derby. He was doing his best running at the 3/16th's to 1/4 pole in the Derby, which is 1 1/8th.  doh

I personally feel that this horse is going to be one of the top 3 of this crop. We'll see.
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TheRedMile
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« Reply #72 on: May 14, 2013, 09:31:44 AM »

What makes you say that? He has never run over 1 1/8th until the Derby. He was doing his best running at the 3/16th's to 1/4 pole in the Derby, which is 1 1/8th.  doh

I personally feel that this horse is going to be one of the top 3 of this crop. We'll see.

we obviously see different things when we look at wtc.you said you were impressed w his works before the derby and i was not.
i also do not think he was doing the best running at that part of the race as you say.
i just think he is not as good as some have shown so far and there are always new shooters coming up.he figured to run good in the slop at cd w his big wet number and he did but got nothing.i know he nmay have have a reason but good horses overcome those.
i know his dam was a standout but the damsire i believe was a sprinter.
on the sire side unbridled songs while precocious do not get better the longer they go imo.i also do not think that wtc's pps show him beating any g1 winners yet let alone winning one himself.
i stand by wtc not winning any g1's from a 1 1/8 and up.
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STIVO
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« Reply #73 on: May 14, 2013, 10:12:16 AM »

Niatross:

This will be really fun. Looks like we have a little "contest" or at the very least, our reputations on the line! Stay tuned! It will be fun. Just for fun, who do you feel is the best 3YO besides Orb. We can see who will do better moving forward. We can track both horses.
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TheRedMile
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« Reply #74 on: May 14, 2013, 04:17:04 PM »

Niatross:

This will be really fun. Looks like we have a little "contest" or at the very least, our reputations on the line! Stay tuned! It will be fun. Just for fun, who do you feel is the best 3YO besides Orb. We can see who will do better moving forward. We can track both horses.

they may not be the best but from the derby field i think revolutionary and itsmyluckyday will do more than wtc going forward.
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