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Author Topic: Lime Spyder Racing Team LLC  (Read 9172 times)
Dan Nance
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« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2006, 03:27:17 PM »

Paul

         Edward can't explain jackshit about pre-racing or any rules for that matter. He doesn't know one thing about training a horse or pre-racing one. All he can do is act like he's a know it all on this forum and try and make people think he knows the game better then anyone when the fact is all he knows how to do is read charts and watch replays. As a matter of fact he doesn't even know what he looking at when he is watching replays. I hope he never becomes a steward because then the horseman will be in big trouble with this clown watching over things.

         This school boy is starting to make me sick with his self-rightous bullshit he trys to spew to someone like me who has been through it all and knows what the hell is going on. This punk doesn't know 1/10th what I know about the business and about betting and about handicapping a race. He's a blowhard who belongs at trackchampion with his fraud buddy Tom Wendt.  


Hey Dan

        Why don't you hire this school boy Edward to manage your stable? He claims to know everything about harness racing so I'm sure he can run your stable and tell you everything to do to make money.
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« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2006, 03:44:19 PM »

Paul,

  Maybe you can explain why everyone thinks that pre-racing is so bad for the sport but several states and Canada allow several types of "pre-race" to be used right on race day, and administer it in the paddock for you. Tony is in Canada and I can't believe what they allow and will do for you right in the paddock on race night.  By the way...lasix is $55.00 a shot!! Ouch....oh yeah, want Clot All just ask...they will give it right along with the lasix.

And you-------------"WONDER WHY" they are lowering the purses at many of the Canadien tracks??? The gamblers are tired of it have you figured it out yet?? Why do you think most of the Woodine horses flop on there face when they leave? No rocket scientist to figure that one. Most of the drugs used in your own back yard come via Canada.  thumbs down thumbs down
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Frog Dooley
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« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2006, 05:35:43 PM »

Free Legged:

In the past 30 years I've owned then, I've trained them, I've driven them, I've bred them, I've broken them, I've shipped them hundreds of miles, I've trained them down, I've shoveled manure, I've got kicked, bitten, thrown and bloodied; I've published and edited a harness magazine for 12 years, I was down in Springfield in 1995 fighing like hell against recapture before it became law, I've have been on the IHHA Board for over 10 years, I'm still on the ISOBA Board, I was in charge of all harness operations at Hawthorne in 04 and 05 and I'm Frog Dooley, who has been handicapping Chicago harness races for 15 years. And you know what. You still learn something everyday in this business. I especially value my friendships. We have all made mistakes. I will do the best I can managing the Lime Spyder Stable.
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FreeLegged
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« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2006, 05:49:44 PM »

Free Legged:

In the past 30 years I've owned then, I've trained them, I've driven them, I've bred them, I've broken them, I've shipped them hundreds of miles, I've trained them down, I've shoveled manure, I've got kicked, bitten, thrown and bloodied; I've published and edited a harness magazine for 12 years, I was down in Springfield in 1995 fighing like hell against recapture before it became law, I've have been on the IHHA Board for over 10 years, I'm still on the ISOBA Board, I was in charge of all harness operations at Hawthorne in 04 and 05 and I'm Frog Dooley, who has been handicapping Chicago harness races for 15 years. And you know what. You still learn something everyday in this business. I especially value my friendships. We have all made mistakes. I will do the best I can managing the Lime Spyder Stable.
Very well said and I wish you the best. All I am saying is the industry will not ever get better if the undesireables are not weeded out....and they will not get weeded out until reputable people take a stance and not get involved with them. His rap sheet is a mile long, he has basically stole money from other owners/trainers/drivers. I suppose you have the right to support a thief down the road if that is your choice. Personally, I hope you do great up until the time you hook up with a crook...once you do, I hope you never get a check.
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Lusty Tar Heel
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« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2006, 05:55:55 PM »

Well said Freelegged....I could never support someone who supports a thief
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nelly
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« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2006, 06:41:24 PM »

New names for the racing stable:

No Integrity Stable
Rocket Fuel Racing Stable
Gout Racing Stable
Paper Trainer Stable (2 for the price of 1)
Barred from racing stable (only available in certain states)
Temporary restraining order stable (limited time offer)
Hay and Oats who needs em stable
Pre-racing specialists stable
Needle and tube racing
Environmentally contaminated stable
Underinvestigation stable


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tonymfan
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« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2006, 06:47:13 PM »

Good old Barn To Wire forum. There's not one subject or person in harness racing that someone won't immediately sign on to trash. Nice picture of the Chicago harness racing community readers get here. Buncha ***hole racing circuit.
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john
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« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2006, 07:11:50 PM »

I would like to say good look to Dan. As a manager of funds, I have so many great memories and friendships. Dan, it sounds like you have been through all facets of the business. You certainly have some impressive credentials. I hope you get many people to invest and do well !!!
When I have my investors and there friends and families in the winners circle, it makes everything worth it.
I think your fund would get instant credibility if you used more Illinois Trainers. Horsemen like Eaton, Hochstetler, Willis, Ozment, Plowman, nance, and etc. would make your fund more marketable to the area (Hey scott, i'm throwing you a bone).
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swoodall
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« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2006, 07:20:04 PM »

tonymidiot

The only ***hole on BTW greets you in the mirror everyday.  But don't let that stop you from showing your cheaters love with every key stroke.
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tonymfan
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« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2006, 07:30:45 PM »

The only ***hole on BTW greets you in the mirror everyday.

You are so wrong. I sign on to BTW in the morning and see last post from people like you and Nance. No mirror needed they call it a computer monitor!
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swoodall
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« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2006, 08:17:59 PM »

Dan P.

I think I still have most of the Midwest Harness Horse magazines I subscribed to while you were the editor.  Your column was the best.  Your industry knowledge and ability to explain what was going on between the Illinois Harness Racing rivals with a clear and easy to understand perspective was not given enough credit by fellow horsemen.  You sounded the alarm on recapture and few listened.  Which is why I can't understand your selections for possible trainer to train your new stable's horses?

Have you had a John McCain type of political epiphany, where you embrace old enemies (institutionalized cheating in your case) for personal gain?  Rucker does seem to have a deity like ability to rise up from harness racing's graveyard for trainers, GETTING CAUGHT CHEATING!       Why not list the Ledfrauds as a possible trainer since being suspended hasn't stop Seldon from jogging or training?  Having Todd Warren down as trainer and driver will improve your winning percentage since he seems to do better with horses under his control!  Don't plan on buying any Indiana breds unless you have a different trainer than Warren to race there.

If my memory serves me right Dan, you spent a hell of a lot of personal time and ink standing up for the small stables and family run harness farms in Illinois.  An honorable effort by anyones standard.  So the $64,000.00 question is; Why would you now support the KNOWN CHEATERS in Illinois Harness racing who are STEALING purse money and their sole way of earning a living away from the honest small stable horsemen you use to defend?
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FreeLegged
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« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2006, 08:20:41 PM »

Dan P.

I think I still have most of the Midwest Harness Horse magazines I subscribed to while you were the editor.  Your column was the best.  Your industry knowledge and ability to explain what was going on between the Illinois Harness Racing rivals with a clear and easy to understand perspective was not given enough credit by fellow horsemen.  You sounded the alarm on recapture and few listened.  Which is why I can't understand your selections for possible trainer to train your new stable's horses?

Have you had a John McCain type of political epiphany, where you embrace old enemies (institutionalized cheating in your case) for personal gain?  Rucker does seem to have a deity like ability to rise up from harness racing's graveyard for trainers, GETTING CAUGHT CHEATING!       Why not list the Ledfrauds as a possible trainer since being suspended hasn't stop Seldon from jogging or training?  Having Todd Warren down as trainer and driver will improve your winning percentage since he seems to do better with horses under his control!  Don't plan on buying any Indiana breds unless you have a different trainer than Warren to race there.

If my memory serves me right Dan, you spent a hell of a lot of personal time and ink standing up for the small stables and family run harness farms in Illinois.  An honorable effort by anyones standard.  So the $64,000.00 question is; Why would you now support the KNOWN CHEATERS in Illinois Harness racing who are STEALING purse money and their sole way of earning a living away from the honest small stable horsemen you use to defend?

That,my friends, is a well thought out and well written comment(s).
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njhorseman
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« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2006, 08:40:31 PM »

Paul,

  Maybe you can explain why everyone thinks that pre-racing is so bad for the sport but several states and Canada allow several types of "pre-race" to be used right on race day, and administer it in the paddock for you. Tony is in Canada and I can't believe what they allow and will do for you right in the paddock on race night.  By the way...lasix is $55.00 a shot!! Ouch....oh yeah, want Clot All just ask...they will give it right along with the lasix.

Donna:

With the type of money Erv and Tony's horses make, the owners can afford $55 for Lasix.  Wink

Just like you can get Clot All in Canada, you can get Amicar in PA from the vet that administers Lasix to your horse.

The grandstand goofs confuse legally administered meds with illegal pre racing like milkshaking.
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DLeestable
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« Reply #38 on: June 26, 2006, 08:56:35 PM »

Paul,

    I am all for anything that keeps the horses from bleeding. I wish they would allow it here in Illinois. The tough winters really put a lot of stress on horses that have raced all year long. It makes a lot of horses bleed over lasix. Wouldn't it be a plus to the public to know that the horse you just wheeled in the tri, wasn't going to bleed over lasix?  Bleeding is a number one problem with a lot of horses here in Chicago and it can make a lot of horses race off form.

   You better make money racing up there.  Thirty day supply of EPM meds $329.00. Vitamin jug, $90.00. Sounds a bit high..... Shocked
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nelly
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« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2006, 09:08:13 PM »

DLeestable,

I agree with you on the bleeding issue, every racing jurisdiction has different rules on what is allowed and when!!!  I would like to see one common set of rules with the intent to prevent horses from bleeding over lasix and yes the biggest benefit would be to the wagering public!!!!
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kellytuc
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« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2006, 09:45:46 PM »


Dan is desperate to make money for his stable and knows the only way to do that in Chicago is with Rucker and Warren.  He has unfortunately sold his soul to make a profit.  We'll see how it unfolds.
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Frog Dooley
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« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2006, 01:58:20 AM »


Wow! I'm selling my soul to make a profit. Let's get real here.
As I stated previously, as of now, Rucker is not one of the trainers Lime Spyder will be using
in our initial operations. We will be going with Elliott Deaton and Todd Warren. I've watched both
of these fine trainers over the past year or so and have been impressed with their ability. I've been
involved in this business for over 30 years and I can say that my philosophy is a little old school.
I always have liked trainers who drive their own and both Deaton and Warren have exhibited the ability
to be top trainers, as well as leading drivers at the tracks that they race at. That is a quality that is almost
impossible to find in this day and age. If that makes me greedy so be it.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2006, 02:05:16 AM »

Wow! I'm selling my soul to make a profit. Let's get real here.
As I stated previously, as of now, Rucker is not one of the trainers Lime Spyder will be using
in our initial operations. We will be going with Elliott Deaton and Todd Warren. I've watched both
of these fine trainers over the past year or so and have been impressed with their ability. I've been
involved in this business for over 30 years and I can say that my philosophy is a little old school.
I always have liked trainers who drive their own and both Deaton and Warren have exhibited the ability
to be top trainers, as well as leading drivers at the tracks that they race at. That is a quality that is almost
impossible to find in this day and age. If that makes me greedy so be it.

Dan
           It's 3 in the morning in Chicago so why not go to bed and get a good nights sleep instead of being worried about what is posted on this site? Don't be like me and fall into the same trap with these grandstand goofs who have me defending myself everytime I log on to this forum. It's too late for me until the day comes I decide I had enough but you can quit now while you're ahead.

    Take care and best of luck whoever you are with. 

           
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DLeestable
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« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2006, 05:16:15 AM »

Nelly,

   I agree it should be one unified set of rules for every state, but it will never happen. They can't agree on anything. You need a rule book when you go to another state to even know what is allowed and what isn't.
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VitoTheCapper
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« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2006, 07:06:33 AM »

That's right nothing on race day, but you can do plenty of things legally up until that point...and it's legal and far from racing on only "hay, oats and water."

I agree NJ. Sure there are plenty of things you can do legally.one point that i would like to say is.You just cant race hard ever start..if you draw a bad post against a tough field why not race easy? It keeps horses fresh.Any horse i am involved with usually races atleast 40 times a year......keep them them sound "TREAT" them with the best of care. I believe in training them easy and race hard when need be...Too many guys want to train hard race hard and burn them up......A perfect example ia a horse i have here in Florida....he dont even train at all........A cheap claimer$6,000 he stays on the home property were he just jogs around  a small area..We send him off to race and he does very well......Sound as can be..Just win from the 8 hole.

*FOURTH-1 MILE TROT; nw751L5; PURSE $3,020 TRACK CONDITION-FT  OFF: 08:23*
HORSE                 PP  1/4  1/2  3/4   STR       FIN      TIME           ODDS     DRIVER       TRAINER
Moving By Passer      8    1    2    1    1-1 1/2   1-NK     1:59.2         2.30     B Ranger     Gravagna
Radar                 7    2    3    2o   2-1 1/2   2-NK     1:59.2         18.00    T Sells      Eichas
What A Pearl          1    5    5    4o   3-3       3-3/4    1:59.3         *1.20    J Sears      Sears
Big Komona            3    7    7    6o   4-4 1/2   4-2 1/2  1:59.4         9.30     M Deters     Deters
Igotmytanindaytona    6    9    9    7o   5-6 1/2   5-4 1/2  2:00.1         10.10    D Bier       Tlumac
Flaming Vic           10   6    6X   9    7-8 1/2   6-6 1/4  2:00.3         26.70    A Brisson    Brisson
Son O'light           2    4    4    5    6-8       7-8      2:01.0         32.30    C Richards   Richards
Sand Prince           9    10   10   10oo 8-11      8-10 1/4 2:01.2         36.70    D Brainard   Brainard
Dc Current            4    3o   1    3    9X-15     X9-18 1/22:03.0         6.00     W Hennessey  Hennessey
Any Given Sunday      5    8    8    8o   10-17     10-21    2:03.3         19.40    A Saul       Saul
Time-29.0; 58.4; 1:28.4; 1:59.2**
8-Moving By Passer (B Ranger)                    6.60      6.20      3.40
7-Radar (T Sells)                                          14.60     4.00
1-What A Pearl (J Sears)                                             3.20
Exacta(8-7) Paid $62.00
Trifecta(8-7-1) Paid $273.20
Superfecta(8-7-1-3) Paid $1,184.40


This horse was claimed after we had Tropic Sun claimed from us....tropic Sun should have been voted claimer of the year here 2005......

But because we are not well liked and Not ass kisses we didnt even get to be considered..Tropic Sun never saw the Track except on race nights.....

The Same with Moving By Passer

My point is class them were they belong....treat them well....Forget  the Rucker types and you can bet and pay the bill with purse money alone.......

Ill take care of them myself on my own property before i give one to clowns like the Rucker type...

Ive had horses with plenty  of the top names in the biz...and I have more fun and enjoyment with a little guy.........I call the "shots" ...I i don't get burned.





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VitoTheCapper
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« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2006, 07:17:48 AM »

I do not know Dan Poprawski.   Never met him, although there was a time a few years back I spoke to him on the phone....This much is clear - here's a guy that 'goes public' with his desire to get a new public stable going and to potentially involve others in what many of us feel is the greatest sport in the world.   Not a sport without problems, but still the greatest sport in the world.  As I understand it, he's not part of a track management team anymore but seeks to involve some new blood into the game and make it a fun experience.   What's wrong with that, I ask?   From my vantage point I'd cut him some slack, wish him well and see how things play out.   If he was in it to cheat or waste $$ or otherwise make things worse in Illinois, why would he 'go public?'   He could hide behind most anything and operate in the shadows like crooks and cheats have done in the past.   Give it a whirl Frog!
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« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2006, 09:14:13 AM »

       Why would anyone want to invest there hard earned money on horse racing that cant even police itself?Huh
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« Reply #47 on: June 27, 2006, 09:38:35 AM »

Just wanted to let everyone know that the Lime Spyder Racing Team LLC is very close to beginning our operations.
We will most likely begin our initial claiming of horses in Indiana, using Elliott Deaton as our trainer, and in Illinois, using Todd Warren as our trainer. Because of the uncertainty surrounding Ken Rucker, we will hold off with any activity on the East Coast until the Fall, perhaps at Chester Downs in October.

We will be accepting initial members through July 1st at a purchase price of $2,500 per share. After that, the price of shares will be determined by the membership, so there is an advantage to being in the initial group of members. If anyone needs information on our group, simply click on our banner ad on Barn To Wire's Home Page. I want to thank everyone who has expressed interest in our group and for those who have helped in getting the word out.

The bottom line is that this could be a lot of fun with minimal risk considering it is only a one-time investment with
no monthly expenses. If anyone would like to contact me, my e-mail address is limespyder@hotmail.com, or just fire away on this thread and I will certainly respond.

Thanks again,
Dan Poprawski
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dan, you may have already addressed this but how can your shares come
with a guarantee of no additional investment needed?

Also, given that I would expect total monthly expenses per horse to
be $2250 do you really believe you will be claiming horses that will earn at
least $30,000 per year just to break even?  If you are going
to be claiming any horses under $15,000, I would love to see a list of all
horses in Illinois or Indiana for a claiming tag <15k that have earned
at least $30,000 last year---it would be a very small list.

What will the LLC do if funds run out and new members are not purchasing
additional shares?

I realize it makes for a minimal investment for individuals to say they are
"owners" of a race horse and will allow them to take a winner circle photo
occassionally but I don't see how there could truly be a profit for the
investors given an estimated cost (by me) of $2250 monthly (your numbers
could even be higher) to maintain each horse.

Then, when you are buying on the east coast, the realistic cost per horse
would approximate $3000 per month for everything, pushing the
earnings per year (per horse) needed to $40,000 just to break even
(after driver/trainer 10% cut).

Don't get me wrong, I believe it is excellent for the trainers and Lime Spyder
management (management fees, etc) involved to have a new revenue stream
coming in but other than a "fun" little $2500 throwaway investment for
a newbie owner coming in I can't possibly see how there could be a profit
for the investor.

Are you selling a tax write-off benefit to this??-I suppose that could help
justify it.

Please let me know if you dispute any of the figures I listed above.

Thanks-
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« Reply #48 on: June 27, 2006, 01:17:52 PM »


Trotter1:

You bring up some very good points that we have tried to address as best as possible.
Your estimate of $2,250 per month is a fair estimate, although perhaps just a tad high.
As per the information that is available on our website, we anticipate to hold some 30-35% of our
membership's capital investment in escrow to pay all of our training and business expenses.

As everyone involved in the racing game knows, it is a very high risk business. We believe by utilizing
top percentage trainers such as Elliott Deaton and Todd Warren, we have better than an even chance
of turning a profit. The beauty of the Lime Spyder Racing Team is, I believe, that after your initial investment,
you will not have to worry about paying bills every month. Every owner that I have known that has gotten sour
on our business, has done so because they got tired of plunking out more and more money each month on
training bills. Thus, that is the one thing I wanted to eliminate.

Certainly, it is a risk, but if you invest say $5,000, that is the end of your financial exposure. We hope to draw
additional investors as time goes on as several potential investors have told me that they wanted to see how
we are doing before committing to purchasing shares.

To answer your other questions, if the time comes that we do not have enough funds in escrow to pay the bills,
we will begin to sell assets and if necessary, sell all assets, pay the remaining bills, and then distribute the remaining
capital to our shareholders. Finally, the beauty of the LLC is that you can deduct losses, if any, without filing a
Schedule C, and profits, in most cases, can avoid the double taxation of self-employment taxes. In any case,
we expect to have a lot of fun and action for our members with little financial exposure.

Thanks, Dan P.
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trotter1
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« Reply #49 on: June 27, 2006, 01:29:28 PM »

Trotter1:

You bring up some very good points that we have tried to address as best as possible.
Your estimate of $2,250 per month is a fair estimate, although perhaps just a tad high.
As per the information that is available on our website, we anticipate to hold some 30-35% of our
membership's capital investment in escrow to pay all of our training and business expenses.

As everyone involved in the racing game knows, it is a very high risk business. We believe by utilizing
top percentage trainers such as Elliott Deaton and Todd Warren, we have better than an even chance
of turning a profit. The beauty of the Lime Spyder Racing Team is, I believe, that after your initial investment,
you will not have to worry about paying bills every month. Every owner that I have known that has gotten sour
on our business, has done so because they got tired of plunking out more and more money each month on
training bills. Thus, that is the one thing I wanted to eliminate.

Certainly, it is a risk, but if you invest say $5,000, that is the end of your financial exposure. We hope to draw
additional investors as time goes on as several potential investors have told me that they wanted to see how
we are doing before committing to purchasing shares.

To answer your other questions, if the time comes that we do not have enough funds in escrow to pay the bills,
we will begin to sell assets and if necessary, sell all assets, pay the remaining bills, and then distribute the remaining
capital to our shareholders. Finally, the beauty of the LLC is that you can deduct losses, if any, without filing a
Schedule C, and profits, in most cases, can avoid the double taxation of self-employment taxes. In any case,
we expect to have a lot of fun and action for our members with little financial exposure.

Thanks, Dan P.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dan-
Thanks for your staightforward response.  I think it would be a great way for a
new owner to be introduced into the business for only a $2500 investment.

I was looking at it from a different perspective, having been in the business for
25 years but I do see how it could be a lot of fun for a small investment.

Best wishes to you and who knows, maybe I'll even buy a share or two down
the line!

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