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Author Topic: AP Contract done???  (Read 2442 times)
Scav
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« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2013, 06:05:27 PM »

Folks, I have a feeling that opening weekend is gonna be wild at Arlington and will be unbelievable betting. Those owners awards for large fields are an amazing addition and I can see both Friday and Saturday having a ton of horses racing.

Viva Arlington!
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cubfan
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« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2013, 09:10:27 PM »

Folks, I have a feeling that opening weekend is gonna be wild at Arlington and will be unbelievable betting. Those owners awards for large fields are an amazing addition and I can see both Friday and Saturday having a ton of horses racing.

Viva Arlington!

With all due respect, Scav, about 20% of the betting actually know what's going on with this stuff.
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amtino06
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« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2013, 09:41:17 PM »

With all due respect, Scav, about 20% of the betting actually know what's going on with this stuff.
That's the way uh huh, uh huh, I like it.
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2013, 10:03:07 PM »


What happened at Arlington this year, in my opinion, is all CDI driven because there is a trend in how they operate. They could never have recaptured in stall rent what they would have lost without the simulcasts but they will always try charging more first. Mr. D helped to resolve the dispute. He is a horseman himself and his one true love is Arlington. He may be Arlington's Chairman but it is still a CDI-owned track.

I think it was the other way around.  He could have done this much sooner without all the threats.  I think there was a meeting of CD brass with Mr. D after the stockholders' meeting that might have changed his outlook.  He loves Arlington, but he also loves power.
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Mary Ann
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« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2013, 10:10:34 PM »

I think it was the other way around.  He could have done this much sooner without all the threats.  I think there was a meeting of CD brass with Mr. D after the stockholders' meeting that might have changed his outlook.  He loves Arlington, but he also loves power.

Dan, I guess we will never know for sure exactly who did what but how do you explain all of the other disputes CDI is having with horsemen at other tracks where Mr. D is not involved? They not only have disputes with horsemen, they also have disputes with jockeys and fans.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2013, 10:10:52 PM »

Folks, I have a feeling that opening weekend is gonna be wild at Arlington and will be unbelievable betting. Those owners awards for large fields are an amazing addition and I can see both Friday and Saturday having a ton of horses racing.

Viva Arlington!

I'm just glad it's over and all you guys will be able to bet the KY Derby and have a good time at AP. A shutdown dispute would also have hurt the horsemen and the purse account, too.

Scav or anyone else if you have horses in that weekend best of luck to you.
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
Mary Ann
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« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2013, 10:17:55 PM »

Another article on the dispute and Churchill's loss of profits:

http://blogs.courier-journal.com/horsebiz/2013/04/24/peace-in-the-prairie-state/
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2013, 11:47:47 PM »

Dan, I guess we will never know for sure exactly who did what but how do you explain all of the other disputes CDI is having with horsemen at other tracks where Mr. D is not involved? They not only have disputes with horsemen, they also have disputes with jockeys and fans.

Those were small disputes that were settled or not challenged.  Remember, Mr. D shut the track down for a year to win his point in the past.  He will go to any length to win.
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Scav
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« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2013, 07:35:09 AM »

With all due respect, Scav, about 20% of the betting actually know what's going on with this stuff.
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« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2013, 10:37:31 AM »

Now that the deal is done,the vitriol should subside.No one came out smelling like a rose in this on either side,but the hatchet should be buried for a couple of years at least.Now the "Yeah for us we are so great because we worked out a deal!!!!" stuff will go on as well for a while,but that too will fade away.Get on with it and good luck to all involved,and remember,it's just horse racing.
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cubfan
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« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2013, 10:44:19 AM »

Now that the deal is done,the vitriol should subside.No one came out smelling like a rose in this on either side,but the hatchet should be buried for a couple of years at least.Now the "Yeah for us we are so great because we worked out a deal!!!!" stuff will go on as well for a while,but that too will fade away.Get on with it and good luck to all involved,and remember,it's just horse racing.

I can tell you that from horsemen I've spoken with in the last 24 hours since the deal was announced is that the taste in their mouths after CDI's behavior in all of this is as bitter as ever!

I am sure there will be other disputes outside the contract that will continue on....like getting your barn moved to the South-40 because someone in the racing office is holding a grudge.
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nmslim
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« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2013, 10:46:41 AM »

I can tell you that from horsemen I've spoken with in the last 24 hours since the deal was announced is that the taste in their mouths after CDI's behavior in all of this is as bitter as ever!

I am sure there will be other disputes outside the contract that will continue on....like getting your barn moved to the South-40 because someone in the racing office is holding a grudge.
That grudge holding goes on everywhere.How many head of horses are on the grounds or will be by this weekend?Is the Hawthorne barn area open all year?Can they train there all year?
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« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2013, 11:28:27 AM »

I can tell you that from horsemen I've spoken with in the last 24 hours since the deal was announced is that the taste in their mouths after CDI's behavior in all of this is as bitter as ever!

I am sure there will be other disputes outside the contract that will continue on....like getting your barn moved to the South-40 because someone in the racing office is holding a grudge.

There will be residual resentment, this got very personal.  I'm sure there are those that would find something to be mad at AP about no matter what, just as there are those who will never be happy with or at HAW.  Here's hoping that everyone can put their personal bias' aside and move forward with what's best for IL racing.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2013, 11:49:01 AM »

That grudge holding goes on everywhere.How many head of horses are on the grounds or will be by this weekend?Is the Hawthorne barn area open all year?Can they train there all year?

IIRC one year Hawthorne offered to keep the backside open on a general basis with stall rents, but I don't think there were many takers so that didn't continue. Then last year Midwest TBreds rented a few barns and trained there.
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
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« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2013, 12:54:18 PM »

With all of these threads and all of these comments about the machinations of the horsemen and Arlington and CDI and whoever else, there's a huge hole in this milky way: The Fans. Wait until Castle Dick opens and we see complaints here about how they have refined and ramped up the nickle-and-diming of the fans, notwithstanding the quality of the racing. AP should be boycotted for the Illinois Derby snub alone.
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bnlong
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« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2013, 01:27:40 PM »

Their really not worried about on track fans only real bettors in this simulcast universe.
with tracks being built without even a barn area. Management vs Horseman is the new racetrack business model.
Sure we can coexist in this dwindling market place if they want to or need to.
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Scav
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« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2013, 01:31:30 PM »

Their really not worried about on track fans only real bettors in this simulcast universe.
with tracks being built without even a barn area. Management vs Horseman is the new racetrack business model.
Sure we can coexist in this dwindling market place if they want to or need to.


I for one don't disagree about the cooler charge. People get pretty excessive with it IMO sometimes and there is a done of garbage associated with that stuff.

The other thing, I heard that they changed the kid age for charges of $2 to 12 to 17. If this is the case, I really don't think that is such a bad deal. Its the charging for 4 and 5 year olds that I think is just ridiculous.
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beobob
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« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2013, 02:56:25 PM »

I for one don't disagree about the cooler charge. People get pretty excessive with it IMO sometimes and there is a done of garbage associated with that stuff.

The other thing, I heard that they changed the kid age for charges of $2 to 12 to 17. If this is the case, I really don't think that is such a bad deal. Its the charging for 4 and 5 year olds that I think is just ridiculous.

I think that if there is an attendance backlash it will be measured in the hundreds not thousands.  Every entertainment venue that charges for admission is always seeking the level that maximizes revenue without destroying attendance.  If they are over reaching, they'll know early on and I assume they'll make changes.

I personally don't think that a nominal cooler charge and $2 for 12-17 year olds will keep people away.
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PURPLE LAVERN
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« Reply #43 on: April 26, 2013, 11:10:21 AM »

LETS NOT FORGET.....

PREFERRED PARKING  $5.00
ADMISSION  $10.00
CHEESE FRIES $4.00
HOT DOG $5.00
BEER $8.00

RESERVED SEAT $10
PROGRAM $3

It is not a great bargain considering the class of racing & to charge little kids is pretty upsetting....
I suppose the charge for the coolers is borderline- does anyone know if Ravinia festival charges to bring coolers into that park,  I am interested to know if this is singular to Arlington or done to offset the six figure salary of Howard Tudberry.

Don't forget last year they started adding tax to the already overpriced food which pretty much ended my purchasing of grub except for an occasional beer.....Yes, the $6.00 burger suddenly became $6.48 or something like that......I dont care how many guys are wearing 10 gallon chef hats, aint paying $15.00 for a burger-fries-drink.

For sure will be there when it opens & will be there plenty but won't be taking the family much this year & won't be buying the food...Stop at subway on Euclid & try to sneak in my footlong laughing guy laughing guy
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2013, 11:51:53 AM »

I suppose the charge for the coolers is borderline- does anyone know if Ravinia festival charges to bring coolers into that park,  I am interested to know if this is singular to Arlington or done to offset the six figure salary of Howard Tudberry.

No, Ravinia does not.
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
farquarks
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« Reply #45 on: April 26, 2013, 02:02:05 PM »

LETS NOT FORGET.....

PREFERRED PARKING  $5.00
ADMISSION  $10.00
CHEESE FRIES $4.00
HOT DOG $5.00
BEER $8.00

RESERVED SEAT $10
PROGRAM $3
 laughing guy laughing guy

1-Plenty of Free General Parking. It's not much of a walk, but if you prefer Preferred parking $5 seems reasonable.

2-$10 admission IS high (I thought it was $8 which is still high) but AP's ambience trumps $3-$5 or whatever at many non racino tracks which are typically free. If you don't value that, stay home and wager or go to your local OTB.

3-Come on! Are $4 cheese fries a make or break decision for you? If so, why would you buy them at a track?

4-Same as 3. Also, the few times I had a hotdog at AP last year it included chips and plenty of condiments.

5-Not exclusively on the $8 beers. $2 or $4 Miller drafts were easily attainable most of the days I was there. Besides, I think most area sports venues charge as much as $8.

6-AP has the most free seating indoors and outside of ANY track (compared to any of the 20+ that I've attended). Frankly, I don't know why anyone would feel the need to buy reserved seating at AP anyways - maybe it's necessary at dumpy tracks.

7-Just about every track program sucks. At least AP's has some good information vs some of the bare bones pamphlets that many tracks give you. AP's program works very well for the novices that have attended with me. I, like most regulars bring my own info which I download, so I'm glad the decision to buy a program is my choice.

Bottom line - If you have that many gripes about AP, you have options. I'm retired and look forward to spending a large part of the summer at the nicest facility I've ever been to. Its a great value for me, but I understand that doesn't work for many. Personally I can't imagine sitting inside one of our area Casinos or OTB's on a beautiful Summer day downing cheaper beer and hotdogs - different strokes for different folks. My issues are primarily with the day to day quality of the contestants, not the track.
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PURPLE LAVERN
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« Reply #46 on: April 26, 2013, 03:33:28 PM »

1-Plenty of Free General Parking. It's not much of a walk, but if you prefer Preferred parking $5 seems reasonable.

2-$10 admission IS high (I thought it was $8 which is still high) but AP's ambience trumps $3-$5 or whatever at many non racino tracks which are typically free. If you don't value that, stay home and wager or go to your local OTB.

3-Come on! Are $4 cheese fries a make or break decision for you? If so, why would you buy them at a track?

4-Same as 3. Also, the few times I had a hotdog at AP last year it included chips and plenty of condiments.

5-Not exclusively on the $8 beers. $2 or $4 Miller drafts were easily attainable most of the days I was there. Besides, I think most area sports venues charge as much as $8.

6-AP has the most free seating indoors and outside of ANY track (compared to any of the 20+ that I've attended). Frankly, I don't know why anyone would feel the need to buy reserved seating at AP anyways - maybe it's necessary at dumpy tracks.

7-Just about every track program sucks. At least AP's has some good information vs some of the bare bones pamphlets that many tracks give you. AP's program works very well for the novices that have attended with me. I, like most regulars bring my own info which I download, so I'm glad the decision to buy a program is my choice.

Bottom line - If you have that many gripes about AP, you have options. I'm retired and look forward to spending a large part of the summer at the nicest facility I've ever been to. Its a great value for me, but I understand that doesn't work for many. Personally I can't imagine sitting inside one of our area Casinos or OTB's on a beautiful Summer day downing cheaper beer and hotdogs - different strokes for different folks. My issues are primarily with the day to day quality of the contestants, not the track.


There is no doubt Arlington is a great facility & only 15 min from my door...well 11 if I need to get a bet
I suppose you could consider these gripes but more like observations......

I hate who the Bears drafted, doesn't mean I hate the Bears or won't go to any games..Love the Sox but will still boo when Adam Dunn walks to the plate...

Already have my seasons pass, & guess my gripe is more with the treatment of the Arlington club members- lets not forget that the program at one time had free admission, free preferred parking, free program, & a voucher.......Look at what it is now, almost laughable...wow I can get in 15 minutes earlier!!  25% off 1 item at the gift shop head shake head shake

Look at the preferred lot on Euclid most non event days & there are rows & rows of open parking...why not throw your best customers a bone.

Then they ask you to write letters to the state reps....almost arrogant...

TAX ON FOOD!!!!! that was the last straw for my food purchasing...a $5.00 hot dog should be $5.00...not $5.47

Lets not forget the crappy polytrack  (imo) & average racing quality at best...

Beyond all that, it is still one of the cleanest & nicest tracks in the country which does count for something......but still will voice my displeasure when necessary

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Mary Ann
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« Reply #47 on: April 26, 2013, 04:02:11 PM »

Maybe this could be a reason to raise prices. They make a lot of campaign contributions:

http://blogs.courier-journal.com/politics/2013/04/26/churchill-folks-gives-very-big-to-rpk-and-mcconnell/
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farquarks
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« Reply #48 on: April 26, 2013, 05:36:57 PM »

There is no doubt Arlington is a great facility & only 15 min from my door...well 11 if I need to get a bet
I suppose you could consider these gripes but more like observations ......... but still will voice my displeasure when necessary

Sorry. I wasn't directing my comments specifically at you Purple, I meant them to be toward those who seem to constantly critique stuff that seems pretty petty to me and optional to any attendee. Anyone that has a beef with AP or any entity has every right to voice their displeasure in the hope things might "improve" for them. Heck it means you care and I apologize. I just get a bit tired of what seems to be incessant complaining about AP. To be fair, I see criticism directed at Haw too, I typically try not to join in - I just look elsewhere. Sorry I didn't express myself more clearly, chalk it up to my frustration at the general negativity and with how good it could be with reasonably honest politicians and more enlightened ownership.
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PURPLE LAVERN
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« Reply #49 on: April 26, 2013, 08:14:35 PM »

No offense at all Farq...

People get protective of their "home" track & don't like unqualified opinions..
I am as guilty as anyone with my barbs toward Hawthorne, but more as a way to annoy HV..

Either way with only one week away- looking forward to the first program...

I Have always felt like Arlington could be the Keeneland of the summer...I know there is plenty of competition but have been to most every track & nothing really compares.
Maybe one day when slots come- although if slots come we may be parking at the Sheraton nyah

No Jessica....can that be confirmed...

I assume it will be Joe K
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