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Author Topic: Does this seem odd to anyone else...  (Read 2448 times)
RunSuckerRun
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« on: June 23, 2006, 09:59:16 AM »

Y'all,

In an effort to get to the root of the problem involving the greater number of breakdowns, AP will take off the track surface and examine the base.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/horse/cst-spt-arl23.html

What's curious to me is that if AP suspects there's a problem, why are they running 30 more races over the track?  If somebody really suspects the surface is the problem, then stop racing until you know it isn't.

Plenty to talk about if there's a notable breakdown on Saturday.

-RSR
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Trackman
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« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2006, 10:44:04 AM »

rsr,

Yeah, it's a tough call. This is a big weekend for the track. I guess they could have postponed Illinois Day for a week and petitioned the IRB to make up the lost dates on Mondays. The loss in handle would be pretty big.

I guess that if the horsemen are willing to run and the jockeys are willing to ride, just tell everyone not to take chances and make it around the track safely.
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Ed
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« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2006, 11:15:11 AM »

Good point RSR. If there are additional breakdowns tioday, the weekebd cards could be decimated even if the track/trainers/jockeys decide to race this weekend. If the track examination was done immediately, AP would be controlling its own destiny. By not doing so, they're really exposing themselves if further breakdowns occur today or over the weekend, especially Saturday.

Ed
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nwaryas
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« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2006, 11:16:26 AM »

The reason most of the horses are breaking down is due to the Hawthorne track. The problems those horses had at Hawthorne are starting to catch up. We had a horse breakdown that came in from Tampa Downs. Tampa has a bad track too.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2006, 12:19:32 PM »

The reason most of the horses are breaking down is due to the Hawthorne track. The problems those horses had at Hawthorne are starting to catch up. We had a horse breakdown that came in from Tampa Downs. Tampa has a bad track too.

Please!

Appalachee Cat didn't run any races at Hawthorne and only had two works there this Spring. Boom City hadn't been on the Hawthorne track since last year. On the bad Sunday wasn't there some horse that broke down in its first race ever?

Besides, if the horses have lingering problems that might result in a breakdown and horsemen are sending them out anyhow, "the reason most of these horses are breaking down" would be horsemen!
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alydar66
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« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2006, 12:34:03 PM »

Is there a list of the horses that have broken down?  Are they all cheap claimers?  Maybe they would have broken down no matter what track the raced on.  Who are the trainers? Could the trainers be at fault by putting unsound horses on the track to race?
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vcackerman
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« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2006, 12:42:58 PM »

I saw some blip on Original Spin being a question mark for the weekend.   Are the owners thinking of pulling her out of the races?
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CLOCKERbiggestal
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« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2006, 01:37:34 PM »

Is there a list of the horses that have broken down?  Are they all cheap claimers?  Maybe they would have broken down no matter what track the raced on.  Who are the trainers? Could the trainers be at fault by putting unsound horses on the track to race?

**LOL** there be lotsa live horse if they ran on poly at Arlington.

They ran over 1000 races at Turfway. Most cheap claims and had 3 breakdowns. Arlington has that in one day.

everybody knows something wrong with Arlington track ya ain't gotta be sherlock holmes to see that.

 clocker biggestal
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2006, 02:00:26 PM »

**LOL** there be lotsa live horse if they ran on poly at Arlington.

Arlington won't get poly until some of the other Churchill tracks commit to it, so calm down big fella. Why haven't we read anything from you about replacement of the New Jersey tracks surfaces? When is Monmouth going to get poly to replace that speed favoring concrete highway they have there?

I see Hollywood (no longer owned by Churchill but still operated by it?) has chosen something called "Cushion Track" as its new surface. Is it exactly the same as Turfway's polytrack?

http://horseracing.sportsline.com/cbs/headlines/showarticle.aspx?articleId=10524
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our favorite omen
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« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2006, 02:57:07 PM »

I think that most of the blame is with the trainers for sending out unfit horses.  Maybe they are being pressed by the racing office to fill races.  The horses are all breaking down on or near the turn for home.  If they are unsound, this is where fatigue will set in, and the possibility for a breakdown increases. 

The track is awfully quick.  1:08 for 6F is fast anywhere.

Whatever it is, I hope they fix it ASAP.
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edwarren
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« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2006, 03:12:15 PM »

It's way too fast. My guess is, due to the rainy spring. Last two or three years were dry, but I'm guessing. Maybe the track is packed and needs more loam, or whatever, clay. Something's missing.
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TommyCh
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« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2006, 03:21:30 PM »

How much you wanna bet they come back after the testing and say "the track's OK. This has just been an unfortunate series of events that certainly defy statistical certainties." If there is something wrong with the track inthat spot, EVERYONE would know what the problem is. Doesn't the track superintendent have an intimate knowledge of every inch of the track? Like the groundskeepers at Wrigley or Comiskey? The "investigation" is an answer to the rumblings about the breakdowns. Is the stroller crowd sqwauking? I don't know. But this is more than just the track or the health of the horses. It's about both of those issues and throw in drugs too. Racing in general has its head up its ---, and Arlington and Hawthorne are not immune to it and are on the lower rungs. Just where does Arlington stand in the country as far as quality of race surface?

In watching the Roundtable TVG show on Thursday nights, it has become clear to me that American racing has a sick, twisted, destructive obsession for speed and speed numbers. It goes from the track surfaces to the breeding shed. Who cares how fast they go? Speed is relative to the horses in a race as they face each other.

Racing is  so fragmented, it may never solve these problems.
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CLOCKERbiggestal
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« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2006, 03:25:42 PM »

Arlington won't get poly until some of the other Churchill tracks commit to it, so calm down big fella. Why haven't we read anything from you about replacement of the New Jersey tracks surfaces? When is Monmouth going to get poly to replace that speed favoring concrete highway they have there?

I see Hollywood (no longer owned by Churchill but still operated by it?) has chosen something called "Cushion Track" as its new surface. Is it exactly the same as Turfway's polytrack?

http://horseracing.sportsline.com/cbs/headlines/showarticle.aspx?articleId=10524

Only a couple of breakdowns this year so far at monmouth. Of course they only been racing 4 days a week so far. but the track is normal (speed favoring)

and yes Hollywood installing a knockoff of Poly. expect a lot of kickback and very few breakdowns and losta starts for horses.

 clocker biggestal
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CLOCKERbiggestal
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« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2006, 03:28:43 PM »

How much you wanna bet they come back after the testing and say "the track's OK. This has just been an unfortunate series of events that certainly defy statistical certainties." If there is something wrong with the track inthat spot, EVERYONE would know what the problem is. Doesn't the track superintendent have an intimate knowledge of every inch of the track? Like the groundskeepers at Wrigley or Comiskey? The "investigation" is an answer to the rumblings about the breakdowns. Is the stroller crowd sqwauking? I don't know. But this is more than just the track or the health of the horses. It's about both of those issues and throw in drugs too. Racing in general has its head up its ---, and Arlington and Hawthorne are not immune to it and are on the lower rungs. Just where does Arlington stand in the country as far as quality of race surface?

In watching the Roundtable TVG show on Thursday nights, it has become clear to me that American racing has a sick, twisted, destructive obsession for speed and speed numbers. It goes from the track surfaces to the breeding shed. Who cares how fast they go? Speed is relative to the horses in a race as they face each other.

Racing is  so fragmented, it may never solve these problems.

nah California "gets it". All the major tracks their will be installing poly by the end of 2007. end of the 5 hoss field at Bay Meadows.

 clocker biggestal
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edwarren
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« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2006, 04:11:43 PM »

Gamblers, or "punters" as they're called over there, don't like poly, Al. It's completely different. Not saying it's bad, but handicapping will be different. Have you heard this too?
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glahn
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« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2006, 04:32:03 PM »

The reason most of the horses are breaking down is due to the Hawthorne track. The problems those horses had at Hawthorne are starting to catch up. We had a horse breakdown that came in from Tampa Downs. Tampa has a bad track too.

Tampa is certainly not a 'bad' track. I don't want to sound mean, but I must point out that extrapolating from _one_ isolated incicdent to a universal principle is fallacious. Horses that came from Tampa performed _incredibly_ well at the spring Keeneland meet and the beginning of Churchill this year, and large enough odds that you could've made a flat-bet profit just betting these horses (at these two tracks; I haven't paid any attention to the Tampa horses going back to Philly or Delaware or anywhere else in the mid-Atlantic). The Tampa surface is deep and tiring, and if a horse isn't fit s/he won't handle it first time there. That said, horses that winter there, generally speaking, end up becoming fitter than those at Oaklawn or Gulfstream.

By the way, who trains your horses?
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sodgod
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« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2006, 06:35:46 PM »

If I owned a horse the quality of Original Spin I would not run her over the current Arlington surface.  Those people who sip the CDI Kool Aid and continue to defend the surface seem to forget that it was hard as cement at the end of last years meet.  Hawthorne has the rail bias but at least there is more cushion to run on while being maintained under tough weather conditions. thumbs down  By the way does any one know what the real story behing Dr. Seabaugh suddenly leaving is?

Thanks, Sod
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2006, 06:49:06 PM »

Those people who sip the CDI Kool Aid and continue to defend the surface seem to forget that it was hard as cement at the end of last years meet.

Maybe those people (Jim C., nwaryas) are on the same AP-provided free lunch program as the DRF's Marcus Hersh; not a peep out of him about the upcoming sub-surface inspection. Maybe he doesn't read O'Donnell.   
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ABBY
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« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2006, 07:57:37 PM »

THEY HAD BREAKDOWNS IN CA. AND FLA TODAY AS WELL.
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Jim C
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« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2006, 12:08:41 AM »

I have already replied to this issue under the too many breakdowns topic....so I will not repaet myself, but there will be no...the track is fine statement, they are taking up the top surface, leveling the base and adding something to help remove moisture from the track. All under the oversight of one of the top track people in the US. At least they are working on it and trying to take care of the problem. More than most tracks would do in the middle of a meet.
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ABBY
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« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2006, 09:42:35 AM »

Really, what do most of you know about track surface and conditions? Have you ever had a job as track super? Are you actually on the track (and not just training on the apron) daily? Most of you can't even spell track.
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CLOCKERbiggestal
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« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2006, 10:09:26 AM »

Really, what do most of you know about track surface and conditions? Have you ever had a job as track super? Are you actually on the track (and not just training on the apron) daily? Most of you can't even spell track.

don't have to be a track super to know there is something wrong with the racing surface. There is. they are going to try and remedy it on MOnday.

End of story.
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pamwaggy
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« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2006, 05:02:36 PM »

Amen to CLOCKER'S post. 

I've heard about the poly affecting handicapping, but not exactly HOW it will.  Does anyone know?  Or have ideas?
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2006, 06:49:43 PM »

The site below answers many of the "Polytrack" questions. It's quite interesting. Many European tracks have used it for several years, and they like it there.

http://www.polytrack.com/racingmenu.html
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dogs up
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« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2006, 06:55:58 PM »

as an arlington employee, it is disturbing to me how badly the track is being operated. roy arnold might have served the marines well but he is clue less in operating the track. actually the bigger problem is mr d-- for the many good things he has done for arlington, he has also made several costly mistakes (the attack on balmoral some years ago is still his biggest). he literally runs the show. the tv production is terrible--i truly believe that is the biggest reason for the drop in simulcasting handle.we are a race track, but do little to promote racing. it was nicve that the arlington million was the first million dollar race. but that was 25 years ago and nothing has been done to try to increase the luster it once had.

i fear that once mr d moves to his next level of existence, churchill will simply find a developer to pay them a good price to take the place off their hands Angry Lips Sealed
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