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Author Topic: Purse cut at Hawthorne  (Read 2253 times)
APCD Dan
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« on: November 17, 2005, 09:03:37 PM »

A 7% cut has been announced.  The out of state handle seems to be good, but the more valuable local handle is not what it should be.  It seems like you Hawthorne guys are not pushing enough money through the window. All the contests and club points do not seem to be doing the job.

Think slots, Terry!
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2005, 09:12:26 PM »

A 7% cut has been announced.  The out of state handle seems to be good, but the more valuable local handle is not what it should be.  It seems like you Hawthorne guys are not pushing enough money through the window. All the contests and club points do not seem to be doing the job.

"We're still running for more than we were at the end of Arlington," Kasperski said. "It's not the end of the world."

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Jim C
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« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2005, 12:30:49 AM »

You just gotta love a guy who is suppose to be the leader of the horsemen who feels any purse cut is "not the end of the world" don't you? Forget what it means, or what it shows about how the meet is going even with all those big fields.........the fact that the purses are still higher than at AP is some how the saving grace of it all.That is one of the most stupid comments anyone could ever make especially for someone in the position he holds. Even if that is what he thinks its not the kind of comment you make in public let alone in the press. That is read in Springfield and they think...see they can live with lower purses.........with that kind of thinking its no wonder the ITHA could not impress the IRB not to open an OTB in Niles which will have a negative effect on the purses at AP as the cut the horsemen get from this OTB will be even lower than the older OTBs or of course at the track. And it will take people from the track.

 I wonder if Hawthorne hadn't tried to upstage AP by having purses so much higher than AP to start with and then if things went better they could have raised purses or at least kept them the same maybe they wouldn't be in the position of having to cut purses at all.

So lets recap......Hawthorne's on track is down even though they are running larger fields.....AP's handle is up but with smaller fields.........Hawthorne cuts its purses by 7% which by the way has more of an effect on the local horsemen as those who run elsewhere in the winter have already hit the road leaving the locals to eat the purse cut...but all is well because the purses are still higher then they were at AP. If it wasn't so sad Id be laughing.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2005, 01:10:58 AM »

You just gotta love a guy who is suppose to be the leader of the horsemen who feels any purse cut is "not the end of the world" don't you? Forget what it means, or what it shows about how the meet is going even with all those big fields.........the fact that the purses are still higher than at AP is some how the saving grace of it all.That is one of the most stupid comments anyone could ever make especially for someone in the position he holds.

It's a dumb comment all right, but I don't agree it means much about the way the meet is going. You have handle from out-of-state "solid" whatever that means, and in-state going down. That's the same trend as every meet lately. What does it mean? That your in-state bettors are staying home and betting your meet on the Internet, and the handle is coming in the back door for 3% instead of at the track or OTB for 20%. Yeah, we are losing our handle to out-of-state account wagering services because we do not have legal account wagering here, is what Joe should be saying.

But at the same time if the purses are still higher than AP after a 7% cut something was truly AFU at Arlington.

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with that kind of thinking its no wonder the ITHA could not impress the IRB not to open an OTB in Niles which will have a negative effect on the purses at AP as the cut the horsemen get from this OTB will be even lower than the older OTBs or of course at the track.

Why. Why will the cut be lower. It's still an OTB isn't it? Still subject to all the same cuts as are currently enshrined in law for all other OTB's.

Sorry, as a consumer of the Illinois racing product, I am looking forward to that new OTB.

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And it will take people from the track.

It will take people from Trackside, mostly.

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I wonder if Hawthorne hadn't tried to upstage AP by having purses so much higher than AP to start with and then if things went better they could have raised purses or at least kept them the same maybe they wouldn't be in the position of having to cut purses at all.

I'm sure that's why they set their purse level where they did, to "upstage AP". Get real, Jim.

Quote
So lets recap......Hawthorne's on track is down even though they are running larger fields.....AP's handle is up but with smaller fields

Why don't you compare apples to apples instead of making a disingenuous statement like that?

"The 94-day, 2005 Arlington Park race meet – run from Friday, May 13 through Sunday, Sept. 18, 2005 – concluded with a 0.8-percent increase in total handle and a 0.5-percent increase in average daily attendance compared to the corresponding totals from the track’s 96-day meet in 2004. On track, average daily handle decreased by 0.8-percent"

"On track, a total of $54,070,047 was wagered at Arlington Park during the 94-day meet, $1,582,411 and 2.8-percent less than the 96-day total of $55,652,458 during 2004. Average daily wagering decreased by 0.8-percent from $579,713 in 2004 to $575,213 this year, a daily decrease of $4,500."

You see that, Jim? "On track" at Arlington also went down. D-O-W-N. The news doesn't go away just because the forum crashed.

http://www.arlingtonpark.com/news/track_news/track_news_09212005b.html

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Hawthorne cuts its purses by 7% which by the way has more of an effect on the local horsemen as those who run elsewhere in the winter have already hit the road leaving the locals to eat the purse cut...but all is well because the purses are still higher then they were at AP.

If I'm an Illinois owners running a horse right now, and I've been running one all year, and the purses are higher now that then were when I was running my horse in mid-September, am I happy or sad? Sad, I guess, that they went down, but happy they're not as low as when Skinflint, Inc. was running its meet.
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« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2005, 01:54:09 AM »

All the contests and club points do not seem to be doing the job.

Boy, if that isn't "Arlington Park"-type thinking in a nutshell -- "See, it's not working. Let's give up...and take as much profit as possible -- screw the bettors".

Hawthorne is smarter than that. They know they are up against it, what with the crummy part of the racing calendar, and no real chance at attracting so-called "marquee" horses and owners. They would be more than justified in just taking as much profit as they can, as AP does; instead, they give and give.

How much worse would Hawthorne's local handle numbers be (and therefore, how much worse would the purse cut be), if they weren't doing everything possible to get players down to the track?

Summer's over, folks, and the BC is behind us -- we are down to the hard-core horseplayers at this time of year.

Quite the cheap shot, Dan.

P.S. How is it that even after the purse cut, Hawthorne's purses are *still* higher than AP's?? Something really stinks about that...unless the math is wrong.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2005, 02:11:36 AM »

P.S. How is it that even after the purse cut, Hawthorne's purses are *still* higher than AP's?? Something really stinks about that...unless the math is wrong.

Your math isn't. I'm sure if you added up all the stakes races to be won by horses and connections outside Illinois, Arlington gave away a lot more of the total purse account than Hawthorne. Even with the IL Derby and Haw Gold Cup purses.

Let's face it. Purses in Illinois now are primarily based on how much gets collected during the day at tracks and OTB's before 6:30 p.m. on simulcast races. That's a steady number, but going down as people migrate to account wagering. Then there's the money collected during the dark months and dark days on simulcast races from other tracks. Finally, way down the totem pole, there's what you take in from Illinois on your live races plus what people from out of state bet on your live races. That number varies a bit from meet to meet, but the main thing is the betting on simulcast races, which is probably very static no matter who is running the live races.

This ongoing argument about what Arlington live takes and attracts, vs. what Hawthorne live takes and attracts, is mostly posturing and baloney, because it's only about maybe 15% of all the total money bet in Illinois anymore. The purses come from simulcasting, folks. Suck it up. It's how much of that you chooese to pay out in daily purses that counts.
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2005, 02:38:10 AM »

It's how much of that you chooese to pay out in daily purses that counts.

So, let me get this straight:

* Hawthorne chooses to pay out more to the local horsemen, and

* Hawthorne chooses to pay out more to on-track bettors, but

* AP is great, and

* Hawthorne sucks

Does that about cover the intent of this thread?
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2005, 03:03:33 AM »

So, let me get this straight:

* Hawthorne chooses to pay out more to the local horsemen, and

* Hawthorne chooses to pay out more to on-track bettors, but

* AP is great, and

* Hawthorne sucks

Does that about cover the intent of this thread?

This thread, that thread, yesterday's thread, tomorrow's thread.

Add in a dash of traffic, the neighborhood, fresh dairy air, "bias", and scary people with different color skin than us, and you've pretty much got a whole year's worth of threads. Pretty much.
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TommyCh
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« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2005, 01:01:15 PM »

The beer is colder at Hawthorne!
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Stat Man Steve
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« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2005, 05:41:11 PM »

I wish my workload let me get out to Hawthorne more. 

The rising price of gasoline this late summer and fall certainly may have put a crimp on people traveling to the live track.  While gas is down to $2.41 a gallon across the street from me, from a high of around $3.19 a gallon, it still is much higher than last year, when I recall $1.69 to $2.00 pricing, rarely over $2.20.  60 mile round trip from near AP to Hawthorne, at 20 miles to the gallon, used to be $5.00-$.660.  Now it's down to $7.43 from a recent high of $9.37.  Not too encouraging to make the drive. 
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2005, 08:00:11 PM »

A 7% cut has been announced.  The out of state handle seems to be good, but the more valuable local handle is not what it should be.  It seems like you Hawthorne guys are not pushing enough money through the window. All the contests and club points do not seem to be doing the job.

Think slots, Terry!

" It's A Dead Game Laddies "
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2005, 08:11:06 PM »

" It's A Dead Game Laddies "

Maybe. It's an anachronism, for sure.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2005, 09:20:54 PM »

Maybe. It's an anachronism, for sure.

I wish all racing was like it was in the past. No simulcasting. You can only bet on the tracks in your city. No OTB's. Bring the fan's back to the track. Make it a spectator sport again. There was a time that horse racing was the #1 spectator sport in the country. Not anymore. The tracks are ghost towns for the most part. Everything is ruining horse racing. Casino's, rebate shops, internet wagering, to much racing. That's why it's becoming...... " A DEAD GAME LADDIE ".
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John Frank
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« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2005, 09:36:40 PM »

Your right Dan: Years ago they use to offer pick 6s and 8"s. I never hit 6 or 8. But I use to hit being the only one with 5 or 7. Back then if either built up to $150,000 plus,the ***hole used to fly in from New York to make wager. As you had to make wager in Illinois. NOW THESE ***,pool wherever they are. ARUBA,no make that the Venezuela slave trade that likes to bet heavy.
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