Chicago Barn to Wire Breeders' Cup Handicapping Tournaments
Home | News | Bloggers | Forums | Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Contact Us | Search


October 26, 2014, 01:08:41 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you don't remember your password, email me.

New  registration procedures -- Some ISPs have been bouncing the verification emails.  Please email me to be activated or if you have any problems.  Click Contact Us above.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Hawthorne shippers  (Read 1069 times)
NYRA 792
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1827




Ignore
« on: March 25, 2013, 01:05:31 PM »

Hawthorne winners
where they made previous start to running at Hawthorne
10/5/12-3/24/13


Shp Unl           00003  00000    00% 00% 33%   
Shp AP           00945  00128    14% 25% 38%       
Shp ASD          00007  00000    00% 14% 14%     
Shp BEL           00004  00001    25% 50% 50%       
Shp BEU          00011  00000    00% 00% 00%     
Shp CBY          00038  00005    13% 21% 21%         
Shp CD            00008  00003    38% 38% 38%       
Shp CLS          00002  00000    00% 00% 00%     
Shp CNL          00001  00001    100 100 100     
Shp CT            00001  00000    00% 00% 00%     
Shp DED           00002  00000    00% 00% 00%     
Shp DEL           00004  00001    25% 25% 75%       
Shp DMR          00002  00001    50% 50% 50%       
Shp ELP          00005  00001    20% 20% 40%     
Shp FG           00005  00000    00% 40% 40%   
Shp FP           00126  00006    05% 14% 22%       
Shp GG           00001  00000    00% 00% 100   
Shp GP           00004  00001    25% 25% 25%     
Shp HAW          04047  00500    12% 25% 38%   
Shp HOO          00060  00006    10% 22% 33%   
Shp IND          00005  00001    20% 40% 40%   
Shp KD           00008  00000    00% 00% 00%   
Shp KEE          00014  00002    14% 29% 50%   
Shp LAD          00001  00000    00% 00% 00%   
Shp LRL          00001  00001    100 100 100   
Shp MNR          00015  00002    13% 27% 33%   
Shp OP           00010  00000    00% 10% 20%   
Shp PEN          00004  00001    25% 25% 50%   
Shp PRX          00003  00000    00% 00% 00%   
Shp PID          00005  00001    20% 20% 40%   
Shp PRM         00013  00001    08% 08% 23%   
Shp RD           00001  00000    00% 00% 00%     
Shp RP           00003  00000    00% 33% 33%     
Shp SA           00001  00001    100 100 100     
Shp SAR          00007  00000    00% 29% 43%     
Shp TAM         00004  00000    00% 25% 25%       
Shp TP           00037  00002    05% 14% 22%       
Shp TUP          00001  00001    100 100 100     
Shp WO          00005  00000    00% 00% 00% 
Report to moderator   Logged
Wink Martingale
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2176

"They gave me a hat. I have the hat to this day."




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2013, 10:12:57 PM »

...and?
Report to moderator   Logged

"Some people like Jews and some do not; but no thoughtful man can doubt the fact that they are beyond all question the most formidable and the most remarkable race which has ever appeared in the world."

--Winston Churchill
beobob
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1976




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2013, 10:18:08 PM »

...and?

Isn't it obvious?
Report to moderator   Logged
Wink Martingale
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2176

"They gave me a hat. I have the hat to this day."




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2013, 10:25:24 PM »

Yes, autotoss all Fairmount Park shippers, bla bla... but then how to explain Camagin?  Sad
Report to moderator   Logged

"Some people like Jews and some do not; but no thoughtful man can doubt the fact that they are beyond all question the most formidable and the most remarkable race which has ever appeared in the world."

--Winston Churchill
alydar66
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 429




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2013, 10:44:20 PM »

Yes, autotoss all Fairmount Park shippers, bla bla... but then how to explain Camagin?  Sad
What is there to explain?  If you decide to throw out Fairmount shippers you would be correct 95 out of 100 times. I kind of like those odds.
Report to moderator   Logged
Wink Martingale
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2176

"They gave me a hat. I have the hat to this day."




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2013, 10:47:31 PM »

Save for the fact that most of the FP horses were rank outsiders to begin with. 
Report to moderator   Logged

"Some people like Jews and some do not; but no thoughtful man can doubt the fact that they are beyond all question the most formidable and the most remarkable race which has ever appeared in the world."

--Winston Churchill
brivolta
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 763




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2013, 09:23:49 AM »

So this data only includes a horse's first race off of a different location. It doesn't include horses that shipped in for the meet from somewhere else and won second or third time out. These numbers are very deceiving. Especially for FP horses. Let's take the fall meet for example. The quarantine started a few weeks into the meet. So really the only Fairmount horses were the ones that had shipped up for the entire meet. Look at the numbers for Becker, Manley, and Hellman (the main FP trainers who ran the fall meet) and tell me they were 5% trainers.
Report to moderator   Logged
Wink Martingale
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2176

"They gave me a hat. I have the hat to this day."




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2013, 10:28:13 AM »

Similar deal with Canterbury... whatever the broader numPerzz, Brinson's horses kicked ass once shipped down, and Gary Scherer's did pretty well, too.
Report to moderator   Logged

"Some people like Jews and some do not; but no thoughtful man can doubt the fact that they are beyond all question the most formidable and the most remarkable race which has ever appeared in the world."

--Winston Churchill
brivolta
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 763




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2013, 10:34:02 AM »

Similar deal with Canterbury... whatever the broader numPerzz, Brinson's horses kicked ass once shipped down, and Gary Scherer's did pretty well, too.

Zackly
Report to moderator   Logged
Wink Martingale
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2176

"They gave me a hat. I have the hat to this day."




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2013, 10:42:09 AM »

To me, the only numPer in there that's noteworthy and/or counterintuitive is the 0/7 Spa figure.  But the sample is too small to mean very much.
Report to moderator   Logged

"Some people like Jews and some do not; but no thoughtful man can doubt the fact that they are beyond all question the most formidable and the most remarkable race which has ever appeared in the world."

--Winston Churchill
APCD Dan
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3820




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2013, 10:46:16 AM »

So this data only includes a horse's first race off of a different location. It doesn't include horses that shipped in for the meet from somewhere else and won second or third time out. These numbers are very deceiving. Especially for FP horses. Let's take the fall meet for example. The quarantine started a few weeks into the meet. So really the only Fairmount horses were the ones that had shipped up for the entire meet. Look at the numbers for Becker, Manley, and Hellman (the main FP trainers who ran the fall meet) and tell me they were 5% trainers.

The Becker/Stiritz connection is not the typical Fairmount shipper.
Report to moderator   Logged
brivolta
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 763




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2013, 10:52:07 AM »

The Becker/Stiritz connection is not the typical Fairmount shipper.

So what? Being "not typical" doesn't mean they don't count. If "not typical is the criteria, then every track that has a less than 50% ship and win rate should have their winners disqualified as being not typical.
Report to moderator   Logged
Wink Martingale
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2176

"They gave me a hat. I have the hat to this day."




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2013, 10:59:29 AM »

Royalrap started his careerat FP and proved to be a nice allowance horse for Stiritz/Becker.  And Bent Missile won for them returning after a layoff and a single FP race. 
Report to moderator   Logged

"Some people like Jews and some do not; but no thoughtful man can doubt the fact that they are beyond all question the most formidable and the most remarkable race which has ever appeared in the world."

--Winston Churchill
NYRA 792
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1827




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2013, 11:55:48 AM »

same start and end dates

Becker

Shp FP           00018  00002    11% 33% 39%    0.41 0.67 0.61   

Hellman

Shp FP           00005  00000    00% 20% 20%    0.00 0.86 0.46

Manley

Shp FP           00009  00001    11% 33% 44%    1.06 2.09 1.72
Report to moderator   Logged
Wink Martingale
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2176

"They gave me a hat. I have the hat to this day."




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2013, 12:37:11 PM »

What about Brinson and Scherer (Gary, that is) from Canterbury?
Report to moderator   Logged

"Some people like Jews and some do not; but no thoughtful man can doubt the fact that they are beyond all question the most formidable and the most remarkable race which has ever appeared in the world."

--Winston Churchill
NYRA 792
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1827




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2013, 12:46:14 PM »

Brinson

Shp CBY          00010  00003    30% 40% 40%    0.87 1.08 0.79   

Scherer

Shp CBY          00008  00001    13% 38% 38%    0.66 0.85 0.69
Report to moderator   Logged
Wink Martingale
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2176

"They gave me a hat. I have the hat to this day."




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2013, 12:54:49 PM »

See?

And, I realize it's just outside the scope of your study there, but Scherer also won with Intercompany Loan shipping down from Cby on 9/20; it was just at AP, not Haw.
Report to moderator   Logged

"Some people like Jews and some do not; but no thoughtful man can doubt the fact that they are beyond all question the most formidable and the most remarkable race which has ever appeared in the world."

--Winston Churchill
NYRA 792
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1827




Ignore
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2013, 01:06:12 PM »

see what?
Report to moderator   Logged
Wink Martingale
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2176

"They gave me a hat. I have the hat to this day."




Ignore
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2013, 01:16:56 PM »

Oh, nothing at all... carry on.  head shake
Report to moderator   Logged

"Some people like Jews and some do not; but no thoughtful man can doubt the fact that they are beyond all question the most formidable and the most remarkable race which has ever appeared in the world."

--Winston Churchill
sparky
Full Member
***
Posts: 197




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2013, 02:01:39 PM »

We ship from FP and are having a hell of a meet.  Mind the spring meet does tend to be much easier than the fall meet.  But...we're not complaining!
Report to moderator   Logged
jgp
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 706




Ignore
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2013, 02:11:44 PM »

A few years back if I remember correctly, FP horses went an entire meet, maybe even two without a win.  I could be wrong on this but remember reading it in a program.
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12627

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2013, 02:19:25 PM »

We ship from FP and are having a hell of a meet.  Mind the spring meet does tend to be much easier than the fall meet.  But...we're not complaining!

It's all Illinois purse money. If it's going to Illinois connections to support the Illinois racing and breeding industries, it doesn't matter from where they hail. Keep up the good work!
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
beobob
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1976




Ignore
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2013, 02:26:38 PM »

It's all Illinois purse money. If it's going to Illinois connections to support the Illinois racing and breeding industries, it doesn't matter from where they hail. Keep up the good work!

It is amazing there are some who just have to pick sides and slam. In the famous words uttered at Altamont by the great statesman Mick Jagger, "why are we fighting"?
Report to moderator   Logged
NYRA 792
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1827




Ignore
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2013, 02:35:31 PM »

who is "slamming"
Report to moderator   Logged
brivolta
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 763




Ignore
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2013, 04:27:56 PM »

same start and end dates

Becker

Shp FP           00018  00002    11% 33% 39%    0.41 0.67 0.61   

Hellman

Shp FP           00005  00000    00% 20% 20%    0.00 0.86 0.46

Manley

Shp FP           00009  00001    11% 33% 44%    1.06 2.09 1.72

Again, you're only accounting for their first start off the ship in. That was my whole point. Looking at only one start by each horse doesn't tell the whole picture of how those horses compete there.
Report to moderator   Logged
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.117 seconds with 16 queries.

Home
Upcoming events
Arlington Million
Horse slaughter in IL
Racing TV schedule
News Updates
Legislation

Galloping Out

Previous stories

Arlington
Balmoral
Hawthorne
Maywood
Chicago Sun-Times
Chicago Tribune
Blood-Horse
Daily Racing Form
Thoroughbred Times
Harness Link
Illinois Racing Board

 

2014

Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2013

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2012

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

More ebay items

 

Home | News Updates | Bloggers | Forums | Search
Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Advertising | Contact Us

Copyright © 2000-2014 Chicago Barn to Wire. All rights reserved.
Privacy policy