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Author Topic: "New in 2013"  (Read 1691 times)
Scav
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« on: March 20, 2013, 04:58:30 PM »

Just caught a FB comment from Arlington regarding the 'carry in' policy. It is set to be released this Friday.

Should be very interesting how it is structured! Smiley
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thearmada
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« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2013, 12:00:02 PM »

The story is on the home page.

Wow... Starting to charge for food and even more, CHARGING for kids?Huh? AP has never done this in my memory. They are really trying to drive away the families.
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laurajean
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« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2013, 12:16:38 PM »

I guess they wanted a marketing nightmare for the first day.
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STIVO
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« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2013, 12:30:01 PM »

Bad business decision by AP.
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Louie Weedelbaum
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« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2013, 12:37:29 PM »

$5 for brining in a cooler?  What a joke.  $8 to get in??  $12 to get in on Fathers day? 

Belmont Park on fathers day is $2.  Saratoga I believe is either $2 or $3 and you can bring in as much as you want.

How much do the casinos charge to get in?
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« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2013, 12:42:13 PM »

Who is going to buy the preferred membership, certainly nobody that has no kids when part of the incentive to get is saving a big $16 on getting them in on the year.

And what family goes enough to justify spending $250 for a membership.

They are out of their minds.

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Chris Szulc
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« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2013, 12:46:42 PM »

Hilarious. Can you imagine the families Mothers Day and Fathers Day who may not be in tune to the track's every press release? I feel bad for the gate agents.

Has to be the highest admission aside from maybe Del Mar? Toga clubhouse is only $5 and I think GA is only $2 or $3 like LW said, and kids are still free under a certain age.
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Ed
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« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2013, 12:54:48 PM »

I don't mind paying those prices to attend Saratoga or Keeneland. If I had to pay to get into AP, I would never go. I guess they want the people to stay home and wager thru TS.
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Louie Weedelbaum
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« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2013, 01:03:35 PM »

Hilarious. Can you imagine the families Mothers Day and Fathers Day who may not be in tune to the track's every press release? I feel bad for the gate agents.

Has to be the highest admission aside from maybe Del Mar? Toga clubhouse is only $5 and I think GA is only $2 or $3 like LW said, and kids are still free under a certain age.

Yes they are, 12 and under plus they give the kids free jockey autograph books and ENCOURAGE the kids to get the autographs.

Oh yeah, mothers are free on mothers day and fathers free on fathers day at Belmont.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 01:05:09 PM by Louie Weedelbaum » Report to moderator   Logged
NYRA 792
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« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2013, 01:07:44 PM »

“Arlington is a premier entertainment venue .............” says Arlington general manager Tony Petrillo
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brdman12
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« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2013, 01:32:52 PM »

  I do stay home and wager on TS.  But never on Arlington.  I left them a few years ago. They still don't get it. 
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Secretariat
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« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2013, 03:51:44 PM »

when old man wirtz died , the blackhawks regained a great deal o the childhood base that thy had in the 60's when they were on wgn free tv.

seems like there is a new sherriff in town to pick up the reins as the most disliked/hated...yes hated...sports owner in town.

looks like the sooner DD moves on - the better off racing will be here. look at how much joy the hawks now bring to millions of people, instead of to just one man

it a terrible thing to type, but facts is facts..

DD has to go ..one way or the other

if racing is going to make any type of progress in illinois.

he is a greedy fat ugly man who is probably the most disliked man in the game today
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« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2013, 04:50:56 PM »

The story is on the home page.

Wow... Starting to charge for food and even more, CHARGING for kids?Huh? AP has never done this in my memory. They are really trying to drive away the families.

No wonder DD bought that $1 million of extra CHDN stock. AP is going to clean up!
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2013, 04:51:51 PM »

he is a greedy fat ugly man who is probably the most disliked man in the game today

Geez he doesn't seem that fat to me, nor ugly.
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« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2013, 07:32:03 PM »

I noticed that if you purchase the Arlington Preferred Club or Arlington Preferred Club Plus, besides other things, you get two "daily racing guides". What's a daily racing guide? Is it a program? If it's a program, why don't they call it a program? I've heard people call programs books but I've never heard anyone ask for a racing guide. Or is it something that shows you how to wager, etc. It's not that I'm going to buy these, just wondering what it is.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2013, 07:38:05 PM »

Is it that DRF-lite thing?
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« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2013, 08:21:26 PM »

Is it that DRF-lite thing?

Sounds like a program.
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NYRA 792
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« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2013, 08:26:41 PM »

It's been awhile since I've seen one but it's  similar to a harness program. It had past performances and comments for every horse.
   Calling it a racing guide is more "family-friendly"  and less intimidating than calling it a program.
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orioles
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« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2013, 09:09:54 PM »

Its a program they have called it that for a couple years, its like calling a racetrack a racecourse, to some those are
 dirty words,
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Cablacinasian
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« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2013, 09:12:01 PM »

$5 for brining in a cooler?  What a joke.  $8 to get in??  $12 to get in on Fathers day? 

Belmont Park on fathers day is $2.  Saratoga I believe is either $2 or $3 and you can bring in as much as you want.

How much do the casinos charge to get in?

Sounds great! Can't wait for opening day.
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Trainer Rusty
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« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2013, 10:15:30 PM »

Tsc elite bronze and up get in free.
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Scav
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« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2013, 10:34:33 PM »

My two cents

1) The charging for kids is absolutely the most absurd thing I have heard in my life. Because of it, I won't be spending a single dollar of my money on food or beverages the whole meet. I figure this equates to about 3k to 3,500 that they just won't have. Its just f'n assine.

2) I will say that I agree with the charging of coolers. People bring in grocery stores full of food and just the overhead of having to clean that crap up afterwards is probably equal to the $5 per cooler.

I'm getting sick of this comparsion to other sporting events in the Chicagoland area. Horse Racing is NOT F'n Baseball or Basketball or FOOTBALL.
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« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2013, 11:33:23 PM »

I guess through their studies of the elasticity of demand, this is the way to maximize revenue. Eh.
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Trainer Rusty
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« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2013, 07:50:55 AM »

Wow I just saw they are charging for kids.  Horrible.  I won't be bringing my kid now just as a boycott.  I get in free with tsc elite but to charge kids when there is nothing to do for them except on Sundays.  And I think they charge for some of those activities?  Did they add a water park or are they giving Duck rides through the infield lake?

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« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2013, 08:22:26 AM »

  Did they add a water park or are they giving Duck rides through the infield lake?

These things will come after the casino is up and running and live racing is dead. I'm thinking carnival, water park, etc on one end, outdoor sports bar and OTB on the other with the casino in the middle.
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Matchtown
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« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2013, 09:19:20 AM »

That's good kids don't belong there anyway!!!
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2013, 10:22:12 AM »

These things will come after the casino is up and running and live racing is dead. I'm thinking carnival, water park, etc on one end, outdoor sports bar and OTB on the other with the casino in the middle.

Will these new attractions be free for casino patrons? Will the $5 for coolers be waived?

Actually, I'd drop the OTB part at the main casino campus. Between the slots and the new online gaming, Arlington management will have no interest in a low margin game like horse racing, other than to give away whatever purse money is mandated from the added gambling as expeditiously as possible, in probably as short a racing season as possible.
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« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2013, 10:51:53 AM »

Once the barns are gone, I envision the addition of an entertainment complex, hotel and a shopping mall. Think Gulfstream except admission is free at Gulfstream.
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« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2013, 01:15:52 PM »

Once the barns are gone, I envision the addition of an entertainment complex, hotel and a shopping mall. Think Gulfstream except admission is free at Gulfstream.

Is that hotel to the west by the freeway still for sale?

Maybe AP could purchase that, do a thing like the Indians do to make it part of the rez, and then refurbish it and make it into the casino/Internet gaming center. Then they could leave the track pretty much as is and still charge admission & cooler charges to racing patrons. I'd call it a win/win for DD's stocks.

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Think Gulfstream except admission is free at Gulfstream.

And except Gulfstream quality racing.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 01:17:23 PM by honest & balanced terry » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2013, 01:26:28 PM »

They built a waterpark next to the hotel. I think it closed around 2009 or 2010. Maybe RLD can get a good price on the used waterpark equipment  when he decides to build his waterpark extravaganza.
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« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2013, 01:28:27 PM »

Is that hotel to the west by the freeway still for sale?

It got sold 2 years ago.  It is being converted into condos.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2013, 01:55:30 PM »

It got sold 2 years ago.  It is being converted into condos.

Rats. It was a good plan, though.

Now they're going to have to close the training track and relocate barns back there to free up some ex-barn space for remote parking, while they transform the horsemen's parking lot into all the new casino junk. I have no idea where the waterpark extravaganza will fit. Maybe all the desirable barns just behind the paddock will be the ones that have to move, to make room for VIP casino patron parking.
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« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2013, 02:00:29 PM »

DD has to go ..one way or the other

he is a greedy fat ugly man who is probably the most disliked man in the game today
Duh, yeah and someday the sandman will be looking for you and me as well.

Having met the man, I can heartily say that you don't know jack, jack.  Mr. D is dedicated to putting on the best face for racing of anyone I've met.   You sir, are the stuff that resides between his toes.
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« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2013, 02:23:00 PM »

Saratoga doesn't charge for coolers. And, you can bring in beer - no charge.
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« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2013, 02:28:43 PM »

It got sold 2 years ago.  It is being converted into condos.

I drove by there the other day. It looks as if construction has stopped on the project.
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« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2013, 03:10:08 PM »

Saratoga doesn't charge for coolers.

If AP got the same on site handle as Saratoga, they wouldn't either.
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The Turf Monster
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« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2013, 03:19:51 PM »

I don't know where this mindset from horse racing fans/bettors comes from where everything should be given to them for free for going to the track

If $5 to bring in your own food (the track is paying to clean up after you) or $6 to bring in your kid (it's entertainment for them, right?) is too much, you probably shouldn't be spending your money on gambling.  Do you complain that you have to pay for your kid's ticket to a movie or that you can't bring food in there either?
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Ed
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« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2013, 04:05:08 PM »

If AP got the same on site handle as Saratoga, they wouldn't either.

If AP had the same quality racing as Saratoga, they would have the same handle.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2013, 04:30:29 PM »

I don't know where this mindset from horse racing fans/bettors comes from where everything should be given to them for free for going to the track

If $5 to bring in your own food (the track is paying to clean up after you) or $6 to bring in your kid (it's entertainment for them, right?) is too much, you probably shouldn't be spending your money on gambling.  Do you complain that you have to pay for your kid's ticket to a movie or that you can't bring food in there either?

Arlington is a gambling establishment. Gamblers expect the norms of gambling establishments. What's the price of admission at area casinos these days?

What picknickers expect, I couldn't tell you.
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« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2013, 04:41:31 PM »

If AP had the same quality racing as Saratoga, they would have the same handle.

Who makes that happen?  Who is responsible for the quality of racing in Illinois? Is it all AP's fault? Is it possible to have the highest quality racing in our area running 11 months a year? Do higher purses guarantee a higher caliber of horse(s) and larger fields? (see PA)

It seems to me that if you are arguing for a quality of meet similar to Saratoga, AP should have a boutique meet of similar length starting in July when CD ends.  Have 60-70K MSW and ALW races and you could have a lot of major barns shipping up here from CD. I would imagine that the Illinois horsemen might not be too keen on that scenario. Increased competition and fewer racing days is not something the ITHA is fighting for, and would no doubt strenuously fight against.  
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runninfool
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« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2013, 04:48:48 PM »

It's disappointing that AP is trying to capture every nickel it can squeeze out of the casual fan.  I guess they feel charging $2 for kids will help make up the deficit for not having slots for the kids to play:).  

The argument will be that even the Kane County Cougars charge 8 to 10 for lawn seats for all and you can't bring in outside food!

Kid eat food, so with less kids at AP this summer I would expect food prices to go up too!  Or I guess I'm just waiting for the pay toilet to make a comeback...

I understand business is business, but a little continuity year to year would be helpful especially when racing has their hands fully extended looking for voter support.  

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« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2013, 04:50:50 PM »

A shorter boutique meet would be great. And while we're at it, why not move the track up to the Wisc Dells. Maybe we could appease the Illinois horsemen with a subsidy from the Arlington Heights casino.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2013, 04:53:14 PM »

Who makes that happen?  Who is responsible for the quality of racing in Illinois? Is it all AP's fault? Is it possible to have the highest quality racing in our area running 11 months a year? Do higher purses guarantee a higher caliber of horse(s) and larger fields? (see PA)

NYRA tracks run 12 mos./yr.
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« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2013, 04:54:57 PM »

It's disappointing that AP is trying to capture every nickel it can squeeze out of the casual fan.  I guess they feel charging $2 for kids will help make up the deficit for not having slots for the kids to play:).  

The argument will be that even the Kane County Cougars charge 8 to 10 for lawn seats for all and you can't bring in outside food!

Kid eat food, so with less kids at AP this summer I would expect food prices to go up too!  Or I guess I'm just waiting for the pay toilet to make a comeback...

I understand business is business, but a little continuity year to year would be helpful especially when racing has their hands fully extended looking for voter support.  

Well, of course this is all the fault of the IRB for giving those winter simulcast dates to Haw ... even though AP announced this policy for 2013 before the dates hearing.
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« Reply #44 on: March 23, 2013, 05:02:01 PM »

Seriously, it is kind of tacky if you really think about it.  What are we talking about...avg 100 kids/day over the couse of the meet?   So, $200 a day for 90 days or $18,000 incremental revenue? 
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« Reply #45 on: March 23, 2013, 05:03:57 PM »

Seriously, it is kind of tacky if you really think about it.  What are we talking about...avg 100 kids/day over the couse of the meet?   So, $200 a day for 90 days or $18,000 incremental revenue? 

The worst part is the babies in (bootleggin') strollers constantly in the way are still free. thumbs down
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« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2013, 08:29:44 AM »

All i know is that the best deal in town is going to Haw on a Friday for live racing...$2 admission which includes a free racing form,,,,a Friday at AP will cost what? $14.50 to get in and a form??.........no thanks
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« Reply #47 on: March 24, 2013, 11:55:16 AM »

NYRA tracks run 12 mos./yr.

You know how much I hate to disagree with you, but even if you ignore the fact that they have subsidized purses, one might point out a slight difference in the quality of racing during the 40 or so days that Saratoga runs.
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« Reply #48 on: March 24, 2013, 12:13:50 PM »

Yesterday, I asked at the programs counter at the OTB, "if someone asked for a Daily Racing Guide, what would you sell them?" She first asked me, "A Green Sheet?" Then she asked, "Maybe a book, a program?" If someone buys into those memberships at Arlington for attending multiple times, it's not going to be a novice and they will call it a program like everyone else thoughout the country. There is nothing wrong with the word "program". I think calling it a Daily Racing Guide is just another silly Arlington PR tactic. They want to make it sound similar to the Daily Racing Form but can't use that name so they made up a new name similar to it, in my opinion. This is not really a big issue to me but just an example of how silly Arlington is and how they confuse people more than they already are, possibly hoping to sell more of their Daily Racing Guides.
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« Reply #49 on: March 24, 2013, 12:14:25 PM »

You know how much I hate to disagree with you, but even if you ignore the fact that they have subsidized purses, one might point out a slight difference in the quality of racing during the 40 or so days that Saratoga runs.

They have had subsidized purses for 2 years only, while the quality of racing there has been far and away above Arlington's for as long as I can remember, so that's not an issue.

And yes, Saratoga is better than Aqueduct, and slightly better than Belmont, but even the quality of Aqueduct has been better than what AP offers over recent years, at least as far as purses. So let's not be blaming the inability of AP to be Saratoga on a year round schedule.  

And NYRA didn't even own the OTBs out there all these years, though they did get some money from them.

And I might add that So. Cal. runs a year round circuit without subsidies, and every one of those meets exceeds AP in quality.
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« Reply #50 on: March 24, 2013, 12:20:36 PM »

Yesterday, I asked at the programs counter at the OTB, "if someone asked for a Daily Racing Guide, what would you sell them?" She first asked me, "A Green Sheet?" Then she asked, "Maybe a book, a program?" If someone buys into those memberships at Arlington for attending multiple times, it's not going to be a novice and they will call it a program like everyone else thoughout the country. There is nothing wrong with the word "program". I think calling it a Daily Racing Guide is just another silly Arlington PR tactic. They want to make it sound similar to the Daily Racing Form but can't use that name so they made up a new name similar to it, in my opinion. This is not really a big issue to me but just an example of how silly Arlington is and how they confuse people more than they already are, possibly hoping to sell more of their Daily Racing Guides.

I still think this is something in conjunction with the DRF that's different from a normal Equibase program. It sounds familiar.

Or maybe that was an ancient name that AP resurrected for its programs?
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« Reply #51 on: March 24, 2013, 12:50:11 PM »

They have had subsidized purses for 2 years only, while the quality of racing there has been far and away above Arlington's for as long as I can remember, so that's not an issue.

And I might add that So. Cal. runs a year round circuit without subsidies, and every one of those meets exceeds AP in quality.

So that goes back to my original question, who's fault is that? Does the blame solely lie with AP? Is it HAW's fault they have short fields? Do we blame AP but not HAW? I know that it is important on this forum to assign blame, but can we dump this all on Mr D?  Is increased purses all that is necessary to improve the quality of races? That then should mean that Parx is a hotbed of quality racing.
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« Reply #52 on: March 24, 2013, 01:07:14 PM »

I still think this is something in conjunction with the DRF that's different from a normal Equibase program. It sounds familiar.

Or maybe that was an ancient name that AP resurrected for its programs?

Terry, I've always thought that DRF provided the statistics for the programs, at least for the simulcast programs. I've just looked at yesterday's Form and Simulcast Program for Hawthorne. The only difference I saw was the speed figures and that's interesting because they really vary from the program to the Form. So whose speed figures are in the Simulcast Programs?

I know you will be able to buy a separate program for Arlington itself. Maybe it's  all in Equibase's standard format. I just googled Daily Racing Guide and nothing other than Daily Racing Form came up and DRF puts out special publications for special events called Daily Racing Form Guides.

In any event, I know you can purchase DRF PP's through Equibase so who really knows what's what. Here's a sample of Equibase PP's which looks very different from what you will see in the simulcast programs but it could be what you see in Arlington's Daily Racing Guides (I wouldn't know as I never buy them):

http://www.equibase.com/samples/Race%20Program%20Sample/1.PDF

Additional Note: I saw at the bottom of each race in the simulcast programs that it does say Equibase Company. I'm sure this is why there are different speed figures from the Form. It sure looks more like the DRF format than Equibase though.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2013, 01:18:16 PM by Mary Ann » Report to moderator   Logged
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« Reply #53 on: March 24, 2013, 01:18:25 PM »

FWIW,I have an AP program from 2006.  At the top it says "Daily Racing Guide".   Another program, from 2012, also has "Daily Racing Guide" at the top.  On the last page of both is a box containing "Copyright @ 20xx by Printing Specialties, Equibase Company LLC, Arlington Park and its associated companies."
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« Reply #54 on: March 24, 2013, 01:31:44 PM »

FWIW,I have an AP program from 2006.  At the top it says "Daily Racing Guide".   Another program, from 2012, also has "Daily Racing Guide" at the top.  On the last page of both is a box containing "Copyright @ 20xx by Printing Specialties, Equibase Company LLC, Arlington Park and its associated companies."

Thanks, zanzibar, for the research. It appears CDI tracks, or at least Arlington, don't have programs but have Daily Racing Guides with their own deal with Equibase. What I find interesting is they call it a name similar to the Daily Racing Form. On the simulcast programs, it's called "Official Simulcast Program".
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #55 on: March 24, 2013, 01:42:40 PM »

So that goes back to my original question, who's fault is that?

It is the fault of the screwed up racing law in Illinois that attempts to spread all the revenue out evenly and encourages tracks to emphasize something other than their live products and live customers, and this goes back years to the OTBs. It's the result of years and years of bad laws that try always to maintain the status quo of 1974. Let each track keep all the revenue of their own meet and OTBs (as long as the OTB licenses are fairly distributed, that is). If that means Hawthorne suffers, or the harness tracks suffer, or even AP suffers, so be it.

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Does the blame solely lie with AP? Is it HAW's fault they have short fields? Do we blame AP but not HAW? I know that it is important on this forum to assign blame, but can we dump this all on Mr D?

Dude. You simply asked if it was possible to have the highest quality of racing in Illinois running 11 mos. per year, and I answered that NYRA (the highest quality) runs 12. No one was blaming Mr. D for anything in that regard. It is possible to have the highest quality of racing running year round. NYRA and the So. Cal. tracks prove it. Kentucky and Florida prove it, too, although their periods of "highest quality" are rather brief.
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« Reply #56 on: March 24, 2013, 01:44:44 PM »

Terry, I've always thought that DRF provided the statistics for the programs, at least for the simulcast programs.

They did, back in the day, but I think the tracks took control of their own data via Equibase back in about 1990?

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So whose speed figures are in the Simulcast Programs?

Equibase.
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« Reply #57 on: March 24, 2013, 01:45:48 PM »

FWIW,I have an AP program from 2006.  At the top it says "Daily Racing Guide".   Another program, from 2012, also has "Daily Racing Guide" at the top.  On the last page of both is a box containing "Copyright @ 20xx by Printing Specialties, Equibase Company LLC, Arlington Park and its associated companies."

Thanks for clearing that mystery up, Zanzibar.
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« Reply #58 on: March 24, 2013, 01:53:26 PM »

They did, back in the day, but I think the tracks took control of their own data via Equibase back in about 1990?

Equibase.

Most likely Moss speed figures.
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« Reply #59 on: March 25, 2013, 02:40:38 PM »

Duh, yeah and someday the sandman will be looking for you and me as well.

Having met the man, I can heartily say that you don't know jack, jack.  Mr. D is dedicated to putting on the best face for racing of anyone I've met.   You sir, are the stuff that resides between his toes.
You may be right--I've met him too--But we're not talking racing--we are talking gouging the public and squeezing every possible penny.

But if he cared so much for racing, why is AP stuck with a terrible off turf racing program, which he could afford to change
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