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Author Topic: CLTV 2 more breakdowns at AP  (Read 1365 times)
Matchtown
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« on: July 04, 2006, 07:41:47 AM »

The 730 news on CLTV has more upbeat info about horse racing 2 more breakdowns at AP bringing the total to 17 more than all last season.
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First Samurai
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« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2006, 10:04:53 AM »

amazing how no one has picked up on the track being sealed after a rain and breakdowns occuring together. LMFAO today all will be fine. The next rain we have HuhHuhHuh??
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Turn the page.......
edwarren
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« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2006, 02:41:17 PM »

Something wrong with the track. Joking in on the poly racket. You're being conned. Boo hoo.
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CLOCKERbiggestal
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« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2006, 06:47:48 PM »

Something wrong with the track. Joking in on the poly racket. You're being conned. Boo hoo.

As an owner I rather have live hosses running on Poly.

Than dead ones running on Arlington's dirt.

 Cry

 clocker biggestal

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Kickers beat one-pacers almost every time.
David
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« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2006, 07:18:20 PM »

I have been willing to explain this away as a normal quirk or statistics, that is perhaps the breakdowns are up but not to such a degree that it would be out of the realm of normal variancy especially with the limited sample of data that is being analyzed.

That still would be my belief, but I was just thinking about logical explanations to the percieved phenomonen (if it is actaully real) and have come up with the following possible scenarios some of which have been brought up, some not.

1.) Regular statistical fluctuation, as mentioned above and in previous post.

2.) Javier Barajas has claimed they have not changed a thing from past years, it might be possible he is not being truthful, either on his own or through direction from higher ups and in fact perhaps they have changed something and don't want to admit it due to public relations or liability. (Disclaimer - I went to school with Javier, but haven't spoken with him in years and this certainly doesn't come from him.)

3.) Odd weather, although it hasn't seemed that much odder than normal

4.) Sore horses, doesn't seem to make sense as the uptick has been limited to Arlington

5.) Lack of proper state vet, this might be the most logical if the phenomenon is real

6.) Breeders Cup Hangover (this would be my crackpot theroy). They took down an awful lot of trees when the had the BC, including a ton of them down the homestretch curve where the rash of breakdowns seem to have occured. You used to not be able to see the Red Rooster when you looked that way - now it is a clear shot. The idea behing this theroy is  1.) There could be a ton of rotting roots, that could be causing a void underneath the surface which in turn is causing slight imperfections in the finsih track which is causing bad steps and breakdowns. or 2.) The wind and hence dirt distribution may have been altered by the cut down and is causing a track abberation. I realize this is a crackpot theroy - but I was just trying to think of things that have changed.
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photofinish
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« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2006, 07:38:55 PM »

 Problem with #5 theory above is that we've had the same state vets at all the Chicago tracks for several years or  more.......

  Possibility with theory #2, AP has injured more horses than other tracks since they reopened. Often around the 1/4 pole (go figure). Lots and lots of bowed tendons, innordinate # of fractures, but injuries requiring long recuperation or carer ending do not make any statistical lists. Ever notice when you are handicapping in early spring at HAW the # of horses whose last start was at AP in mid summer and they don't resurface until March? So, you take a subtle variation in the base and never address it as a problem, over 6 years of use it may just become a whole lot less subtle.
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2006, 09:48:35 PM »

David,
I think your #6 quesstimation is very likely. I have thought the exact same thing, but didn't have the info regarding the tree removal as you said. I saw several of the breakdowns on TV and it certainly seemed as though they went into a slight depression just before they went down. It reminds me of NJC after they built the race car track after the first heavy rain of the meet. It was like a giant sinkhole emerged at the final turn during a race. The horses almost disappearred. NJC closed down for several days to fix the problem.
I wonder if they have any direct burial high voltage running out to the infield under the track. That cable can also rise over time due to ground contraction/retraction.
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Stat
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« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2006, 11:30:02 PM »

The only voltage is coming from the battery boys, like Baird.

That is hilarious, a current in the track.

You have surpassed Frank.
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2006, 12:14:16 AM »

The only voltage is coming from the battery boys, like Baird.

That is hilarious, a current in the track.

You have surpassed Frank.

You just showed how naive you are Stat.
Hawthorne has a 4160volt circuit running underground starting at barn #1 and running diagonally to the center of the main building(look at the 2 rows of bushes in the infield going from slightly southwest to slightly northeast). A few years ago horses were jumping on the backstretch at the southwest turn. No one could figure out why. I walked out there and found that the high voltage cable had risen to about 5" from the surface. We trenched down 39" to below the frost line and re-buried it. After that- there were no more problems.
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Stat
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« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2006, 12:30:43 AM »

"I see," said the blind man to the deaf mute.

Better increase your medication, Navaro.
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Jim C
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« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2006, 12:38:49 AM »

Well for what it is worth this is what about 6 trainers have told me they feel is the problem. That the track is not holding moisture on the top and is making for a harder than usual suface. These trainers had noticed that most of the breakdowns have taken place on days following rain where there have been higher winds on hot sunny days, meaning the surface of the track is drying quickly while the bottom is not. The base and the surface  of the track have been checked and are level. But this may tie in to what you are saying about the loss of the trees in some spots as there is less of a wind break and even some loss of shade in some areas.

This is the reasoning behind putting in the wood chips as they are supposed to help the surface hold moisture better and add more bounce to the track. The reason it is taking longer then planned to do is mainly the rain we have had but it also takes some expertise in adding this mixture to the current surface, you cant just go out there and throw it around and then plow it under to mix it in. Lets hope this does the trick.
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David
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« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2006, 01:48:53 AM »

I thought they just changed vets or even had a vacancy for awhile the guy (Seabaugh or something) was leaving for private practice, but you would know more than I.

I wouldn't think the power for the infield is run on the turn, common sense would be that it would be  run from the main building out there, but sometimes common sense doesn't come into play, I'll check into that next time I'm out there. In a similar vein , when they had lights up, where they on the outside of the track or the inside - I don't remember anymore, that might be another possible void the abandoned conduit and/or cable for the lights.

I know they say the base looks good, but you only need a slight depression to cause havoc to horses that are running full out, and at that point of the race many of which are tired. How they are sure the base is good would be a valid question as they certainly didn't peel back the whole track to inspect it.

What Jim C says make sense and that would play into the often very fast times overall, but might not explain why alot of the breakdowns happen on that turn (other than that has always been a good place to break down due to tired horse and the stress of the turn on the horse). One question about that would be what would be different this year in this regard?

I guess this could get to be like the Kennedy conspiracies before too long, my money is still on a normal statistical fluctuation.
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Ted Womnt
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« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2006, 04:20:35 AM »

looks like AP has hit the AP

Alarming number of breakdowns at Arlington
Associated Press

ARLINGTON HEIGHTS, Ill. - Some owners might pull their thoroughbreds from Arlington Park following the fatal breakdowns of two more horses. Seventeen horses have been euthanized this season.

With 2 months left in the season, the total destroyed has surpassed last year's 12 deaths. The latest occurred last weekend when Bernel Trail and I Love Lisa were put down.

Track officials last week brought in consultant Joe King to examine the turn leading into the dirt oval's homestretch, where nearly all the breakdowns have occurred. He declared it safe, but owners remain uneasy.

Earl J. Trostrud Jr. already has lost a thoroughbred at Arlington this season - Angelic Morgan L. was destroyed after being hurt in a June 17 race. Trostrud is wary about running the four horses he has left at the track.

"I'm very seriously thinking about not racing," he said.

Illinois regulatory officials have suggested the breakdowns could be linked to a thoroughbred shortage in the state, prompting some owners and trainers to overrace horses.

Former Gov. Jim Edgar suspects the oval is the cause. A gelding he owns, Jake's Fever, was destroyed after a June 23 race, and another of his horses, 3-year-old San Cart, developed a swollen knee during a race Thursday and is probably finished racing. Edgar said his horses have been returning sore from runs.

"I think there's something wrong, and I don't think it's the owners' and trainers' greediness," Edgar said.

Derrick Miller said he will hold out filly Savy's Delite for the rest of the Arlington season unless the track performs a "major reconstruction or admits something is wrong" in the wake of the death of Bernel Trail. He was the co-owner of the horse, who injured his front left ankle.

Other owners said they support the track's efforts to prevent injuries and will keep racing there.

"I trust Arlington more than any other track," said Robert Neumeyer, whose gelding Gully Washer broke down in a May 7 race after a bad step. "I know they were out there for 3 days looking over that section. They would never chintz on anything."

In a statement, Arlington Park president Roy Arnold said the track is doing all it can to ensure the safety of the horses.

"The safety of the horses that run at Arlington Park and the jockeys who ride them are our paramount concern," Arnold said inthe statement. "So, we will continue to use every tool available in the industry to make this the best and safest track possible."

According to a Chicago Tribune story, 29 horses were destroyed after races at Illinois' three thoroughbred tracks last year. The paper said that nationally the industry estimates just over one horse dies for every 1,000 that start
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