Chicago Barn to Wire
Home | News | Bloggers | Forums | Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Contact Us | Search


November 23, 2014, 01:35:05 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you don't remember your password, email me.

New  registration procedures -- Some ISPs have been bouncing the verification emails.  Please email me to be activated or if you have any problems.  Click Contact Us above.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: for the 4th consecutive year--synthetics has safer than dirt  (Read 3505 times)
HorseVoice*
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4480




Ignore
« Reply #125 on: August 20, 2013, 04:57:43 PM »

sir Michael stoute had a lot of turf maidens to run dank in back in april 2012 and he positively choose poly for his g1 animal

You don't know that, unless you and Sir Michael have been hanging out at the pub together.

It was probably RAINING and the turf courses were too boggy, and Dank was ready to go right then -- the whole reason for having an "all-weather" track...but that doesn't make it a "positive" choice, if it's all you have at the moment.

One question do you just pass the race if an unknown (to you) euro is running.

Why not? I've read the rules of simulcasting, and lo and behold, we are not obligated to bet every race!.

Try passing one race, Al; tomorrow, try passing TWO!

I mean almost every serious horseplayer I know knew the dank (and duntle) ran huge races at royal ascot.

But you never heard of dank? Wow.

 clocker biggestal

How would I know? As I have said before, their racing comes on WAY early in the morning.

And besides -- it's BORING as hell...everyone running in a tight pack all the way around until 50 meters out...then, one or two leave the pack. What is THAT shit?

(Oh...now I know why you love Poly so much!  ZZZZZzzzzzzzz......)
Report to moderator   Logged
HorseVoice*
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4480




Ignore
« Reply #126 on: August 20, 2013, 05:19:59 PM »

Well if its winter and the turf flat racing season is over and you have an in form horse

What to do.

Ship him to the few venues that race on grass in the winter here in the states or rest the horse until the spring or race the horse on the poly.

 clocker biggestal

I knew you missed the point.

THEY DON'T HAVE ANY DIRT COURSES in the UK, so if you can't run on the turf...how can you call running on synthetics a "positive choice"?   screwy
 
When the weather is bad, it's syn, or NOTHING. That's not a "choice", it's a default.
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12891

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #127 on: August 20, 2013, 06:00:53 PM »


It was probably RAINING and the turf courses were too boggy, and Dank was ready to go right then -- the whole reason for having an "all-weather" track...but that doesn't make it a "positive" choice, if it's all you have at the moment.

You don't know that, either, unless you and Sir Michael have been hanging out at the pub together.

Seeing as how she broke her maiden in April, and meets like Epsom were running on the turf the same day or days, it would seem more likely that Al's assertion that it was an intentional choice is the correct one.
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
HorseVoice*
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4480




Ignore
« Reply #128 on: August 20, 2013, 09:05:08 PM »

Seeing as how she broke her maiden in April, and meets like Epsom were running on the turf the same day or days, it would seem more likely that Al's assertion that it was an intentional choice is the correct one.

Epsom didn't open in 2012 until June 1st.

You don't have to know anything about racing to know that it rains quite frequently in London in springtime.

There were thunderstorms in London on April 25, 2012, with about a half inch of rain, the day Dank broke her maiden at Kempton on the synthetic surface.

It's common knowledge amongst UK trainers that if you want to make sure you get your race in, you enter at Kempton or Lingfield; neither are prestigious in any way, like Ascot or Epsom, and their purses suck...but your race *will* go.

Seeing as how Dank hasn't been back to a synthetic surface since her maiden win, we might characterize Sir Michael's decision to run Dank on the syn as "pragmatic", but "intentional"? Only the most stubborn and dogmatic would argue such.

Dank is clearly a grass filly.  If the weather were nicer in the spring in London, her feet would have never touched Poly. There was nothing intentional about her running on syn; it's what here connections settled for.
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12891

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #129 on: August 21, 2013, 12:23:15 AM »

Epsom didn't open in 2012 until June 1st.

It had races on April 25th, the same day as Dank broke her maiden at Kempton Park.

See the following fixtures list for 2012. It also lists all the other meets around that date - plenty of choices.
http://www.britishhorseracing.com/goracing/racing/fixtures/2012%20Fixture%20List%20-%20PDF%20Version.pdf

See also this story about Dank's maiden win, that mentions her owners having a loser that very afternoon at Epsom.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Connections+have+high+hopes+for+Dank+after+her+promising+victory.-a0287678107

See also the following results for Epsom that day, where if you click on "full results" for the 4:30 you will see it was a Maiden race:
http://icard.888sport.com/results/meeting/9572

Quote
It's common knowledge amongst UK trainers that if you want to make sure you get your race in, you enter at Kempton or Lingfield; neither are prestigious in any way, like Ascot or Epsom, and their purses suck...but your race *will* go.

"Common knowledge" ... about English races that hardly ever "don't go".  Roll Eyes But you're privy to this .... how? Since you've stated in no uncertain terms that you're not a follower of Euro racing and all, I mean.

Quote
Seeing as how Dank hasn't been back to a synthetic surface since her maiden win, we might characterize Sir Michael's decision to run Dank on the syn as "pragmatic", but "intentional"? 

Seeing as how there was a Maiden race at Epsom that very same day, the very same day the same owners and trainer sent another horse to Epsom, and that Maiden was the same class and almost the same distance, while the Kempton Park race had a bigger(!) purse, one could quite as easily characterize the entry at Kepton as "intentional" as anything else. The facts show they had other choices.   

Quote
Only the most stubborn and dogmatic would argue such.

Only the most stubborn and dogmatic would argue as fact the logic behind someone else's decision making process when they do not and can not know absolutely anything about it. 

Quote
Dank is clearly a grass filly.  If the weather were nicer in the spring in London, her feet would have never touched Poly.

You cannot know that. At the time she was a nothing filly, having run but once before.

Quote
There was nothing intentional about her running on syn; it's what here connections settled for.

Another thing you do not know, and cannot know. Claiming it as fact is bogus as the day is long.

And in any case, you're once again diverting the subject. Your original question to Al, back 100 posts or maybe 100 threads, was simply what "poly" horse had ever won some important Graded stake(s). He's given you examples. I think I even came up with one for you. In every single case you attempt to divert the subject with this peripheral nonsense, usually based on some bogus "fact" you just pulled out of the air. Give it up. The examples have been provided.
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
HorseVoice*
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4480




Ignore
« Reply #130 on: August 21, 2013, 05:57:09 AM »

You cannot know that. At the time she was a nothing filly, having run but once before.

Of course I can. Her pedigree OOZES turf. She was always "going to be a grass filly" in the sense that they bred her for grass, tried her first on grass, and have had her on turf ever since her maiden win. Ask Big Al (remember him? the guy who you feel can't handle his own debates?) if she was always going to be a grass filly -- it's all right there in the DRF. You are merely splitting hairs again.

Another thing you do not know, and cannot know. Claiming it as fact is bogus as the day is long.

You mean, every bit as bogus as claiming they intentionally ran her on poly?

And in any case, you're once again diverting the subject. Your original question to Al, back 100 posts or maybe 100 threads, was simply what "poly" horse had ever won some important Graded stake(s). He's given you examples.

Yes, he has...and in doing so -- providing a short list of Euro's who most American horseplayers have NOT heard of -- he has helped give credence to my larger point: Poly is DEAD. Useless. Not even on the radar of American connections with top class U.S. horses. Something to run on when the only other alternative is to not race at all for another few weeks.

A failed experiment, of which I will see the end of in my lifetime.
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12891

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #131 on: August 21, 2013, 08:43:36 AM »

Of course I can. Her pedigree OOZES turf. She was always "going to be a grass filly" in the sense that they bred her for grass, tried her first on grass, and have had her on turf ever since her maiden win.

They could have run her on turf the very same day they ran her on all-weather, or at any number of other turf courses within a few days of that either way. Instead they chose the all-weather. That can easily be interpreted as an intentional decision to run her in that spot on that surface.

Quote
Ask Big Al (remember him? the guy who you feel can't handle his own debates?)

I'm debating the dumb shit you continually spew on this public forum, not defending Al.

Quote
if she was always going to be a grass filly -- it's all right there in the DRF. You are merely splitting hairs again.

Most horses bred in Europe are bred to be grass horses. Duh. Plenty of horses are bred to be turf horses and end up running on other surfaces. Cigar for instance. Their connections try them on a different surface for one reason or another. In any case it is irrelevant. The question is simply whether or not the connections ran her at Kempton that one time intentionally, over alternatives. You claim to know better. There's no way you can know, unless, as you told Al, you have been in the pub with Sir Michael Stoute, and we all know you have not.

Quote
Yes, he has...and in doing so -- providing a short list of Euro's who most American horseplayers have NOT heard of

So what? Because people like you have blinders on and cannot see past the dirt races in the U.S., all the rest of the horses in the world, and the races they run, are meaningless? Get a grip on your own bad self.

The horse we're talking about in this thread won a major American race, having won the first race of her career on poly. All the Godolphin horses that start their career training in Dubai and then ship out to the rest of the world every year started out their career on poly. All of Al's other examples also started out on poly ofr ran some of their races there. Your examples have been provided.

Quote
he has helped give credence to my larger point: Poly is DEAD. Useless. Not even on the radar of American connections with top class U.S. horses.

Hmmm. That would probably come as some surprise to the connections of Game On Dude, Kettle Corn, Dullahan, Richard's Kid, et al. These clueless horsemen probably need to get on the horn with you pronto to get straightened out on this ploy thing by a real expert.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 08:46:23 AM by honest & balanced terry » Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
HorseVoice*
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4480




Ignore
« Reply #132 on: August 21, 2013, 09:59:21 AM »

Hmmm. That would probably come as some surprise to the connections of Game On Dude, Kettle Corn, Dullahan, Richard's Kid, et al. These clueless horsemen probably need to get on the horn with you pronto to get straightened out on this ploy thing by a real expert.

Funny you should mention mostly California horses.

Don't take my word for it -- talk to the CTBA. They want synthetics OUT of all California tracks.

Nobody out there is mourning the loss of syn at Santa Anita, and for as much hand-wringing as there is over the closing of Hollywood, the underlying sentiment is that at least the replacement for the Hollywood dates will likely be at a facility with natural surfaces.

So, that is California, whose horsemen want syn GONE, and New York, who won't ever install it -- the two biggest and most important racing jurisdictions in the U.S. -- effectively declaring Poly DEAD.

Stick your head in the wax-coated fibers and used condoms and sand, if you wish; Poly will go away even if you never ever come back to regular horseplaying. (You can always continue to write endless posts to BTW about it, if you wish.)
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12891

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #133 on: August 21, 2013, 10:56:44 AM »

Funny you should mention mostly California horses.

Don't take my word for it -- talk to the CTBA. They want synthetics OUT of all California tracks.

Funny how you try and divert attention from your erroneous statement "Not even on the radar of American connections with top class U.S. horses" - as per usual.  Roll Eyes And the CTBA does not represent all Calfornia horsemen, or speak for them all. People are divided on the subject.

Quote
Nobody out there is mourning the loss of syn at Santa Anita

Well, perhaps with the exception of the extra dead horses that started breaking down immediately when the dirt track went in.

Quote
Poly will go away even if you never ever come back to regular horseplaying.

I never left regular horse playing, as I've told you numerous times you lying Internet phony, and as for poly, time will tell.

Quote
(You can always continue to write endless posts to BTW about it, if you wish.)

Speaking of which, Biggestal sure has your number, doesn't he? All he has to do is mention poly or some horse that ran over it, and you're off to the races with a multiple-post six day raving rant. What an endlessly bitin' fish you are.

 laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy

Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
CLOCKERbiggestal
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1446




Ignore
« Reply #134 on: October 05, 2013, 09:07:00 AM »



Hey, how is that Godolphin "Next Big Thing That Started On Poly" horse doing? Secret Number, was it? (Still a Big Secret...)

 

won the Cumberland Lodge Stakes (GB-G3) at Ascot today after running midpack
in the St Ledger his Previous out. maybe not a G1 winner but I don't think you throw him out of the barn if you owned him.

 clocker biggestal
Report to moderator   Logged

Kickers beat one-pacers almost every time.
CLOCKERbiggestal
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1446




Ignore
« Reply #135 on: October 26, 2013, 10:51:22 AM »

Hey HV,
            Ever hear of a horse called Declaration of War? LOL.
started his racing career on the synthetic at Pornichet-La-Baule track in France two years ago. also won on the synthetics at Deauville and a G3 at Dundalk (also on the synthetics). Oh yes and 2 g1's this year in Europe. :-)

cheers.

 clocker biggestal
Report to moderator   Logged

Kickers beat one-pacers almost every time.
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12891

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #136 on: October 26, 2013, 11:02:00 AM »

Yes, but what has that horse done on "the natural surface", carefully groomed sand with a little dirt and clay mixed in? Because, as we all know, horses evolved on the beaches of the world.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120203060011AASfncy
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
CLOCKERbiggestal
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1446




Ignore
« Reply #137 on: November 27, 2013, 10:06:36 AM »

HV,
     not sure how I missed this one.

Sept 12, 2012--Magician is entered at and runs second on the synthetic in a maiden at Dundalk

November 3, 2013--Magician is entered and wins the BC Turf (G1)

clear big trainers in Europe don't mind the synthetic track

 clocker biggestal
Report to moderator   Logged

Kickers beat one-pacers almost every time.
HorseVoice*
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4480




Ignore
« Reply #138 on: November 27, 2013, 11:29:36 AM »

clear big trainers in Europe don't mind the synthetic track

If the turf is a bog and unsafe to race on -- what is the alternative?

This is like saying you don't mind riding an old "belch & wheeze" city bus that stops every block, when your car is in the shop.

Silly statement, Al.
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12891

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #139 on: November 27, 2013, 01:35:52 PM »

If the turf is a bog and unsafe to race on -- what is the alternative?

So Sept. 12 is also now the boggy season in England?
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
HorseVoice*
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4480




Ignore
« Reply #140 on: November 27, 2013, 07:31:20 PM »

So Sept. 12 is also now the boggy season in England?

LOL! England's *only* season is boggy season!

I'm exaggerating, of course, but synthetic tracks are probably a decent backup idea anywhere it rains ~150 days per year like it does in the UK.

As a primary, "desired" racing surface by the majority of horsemen -- as Big Al would have us believe -- no. Never.
Report to moderator   Logged
Grinder
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2136




Ignore
« Reply #141 on: November 28, 2013, 12:52:44 PM »

And Euro racing has a much different style than the US.  Over there they train horses to lope along through 50 second half-miles and 6F's in 115 in a bunch, then sprint home in 23 or 24 second final quarters.  We've all seen that.

Poly racing tends to foster those kind of fractions no matter where it is installed. Its softer and slower. And much more difficult to get a horse to quicken on.  That is why I think it was more widely accepted over there than here.
We breed horses with early speed here that can hang on late, and those types tend to struggle on the cushion-surfaces.

And it now looks like Los Alamitos is getting the green light to expand their 5/8ths mile oval to a 7/8ths to get some of the dates from Hollywood's closing in December.  That will be dirt racing too.

Report to moderator   Logged

The more you bet...the more you win
HorseVoice*
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4480




Ignore
« Reply #142 on: November 28, 2013, 02:49:44 PM »

And Euro racing has a much different style than the US.  Over there they train horses to lope along through 50 second half-miles and 6F's in 115 in a bunch, then sprint home in 23 or 24 second final quarters.  We've all seen that.

This is why some handicappers prefer poly racing, I believe: it creates the appearance that their horse has a chance, for about 95% of the race -- the "slower than death" part. Then, the real random running starts, and the poly fan says, "Well, I had a chance to win for a little while!"

(No you didn't.)
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12891

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #143 on: November 28, 2013, 10:35:23 PM »

This is why some handicappers prefer poly racing, I believe: it creates the appearance that their horse has a chance, for about 95% of the race -- the "slower than death" part. Then, the real random running starts, and the poly fan says, "Well, I had a chance to win for a little while!"

(No you didn't.)

Actually, they should have a chance, assuming the usual complaint about poly killing natural speed is anywhere close to legit. Which, of course, it isn't, except for cheap speed horses that wise guys took a shot at "at a price". Good speed horses still win, they just don't win by open lengths like at the super duper speed biased normal dirt tracks.
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.126 seconds with 17 queries.

Home
Upcoming events
Breeders' Cup
Horse slaughter in IL
Racing TV schedule
News Updates
Legislation

Galloping Out

Previous stories

Arlington
Balmoral
Hawthorne
Maywood
Chicago Sun-Times
Chicago Tribune
Blood-Horse
Daily Racing Form
Thoroughbred Times
Harness Link
Illinois Racing Board

 

2014

Breeders' Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2013

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2012

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

More ebay items

 

Home | News Updates | Bloggers | Forums | Search
Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Advertising | Contact Us

Copyright © 2000-2014 Chicago Barn to Wire. All rights reserved.
Privacy policy