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Author Topic: ADW law and surcharges - remember these words  (Read 2426 times)
aregulation
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« Reply #175 on: November 27, 2013, 05:04:09 PM »

Except the thoroughbred horsemen obviously feel they're NOT profiting, and that a solution that helps them while floating all boats would be preferable to the status quo.

No, the money would come from the ADWs. They are not any breed of horse. They're merely computer-aided bookies. The proposal was for all ADWs to provide 4.25% of their revenue to purses, as opposed to the current 2.5% average or whatever it was. There was no proposal to lower the current amount Illinois thoroughbred horsemen get and hand it over to harness horsemen.

And furthermore, there also was no proposal for any thoroughbred-thoroughbred harness-harness split of the ADW monies, so talking about it is just another attempt to blow smoke.

ADW's are profiting from the investment in the Illinois racing industry of generations of horsemen and track owners, both thoroughbred and harness. The ADWs did not create the customer base in Illinois - the local racing industry did. The ADWs are merely taking those existing customers and extracting all the revenue into their own pockets, both tbred customers and harness customers. The proposal floated by the ITHA and partners would have (as far as I can tell) readjusted the windfall profits the ADW companies are taking to flow more to the people who actually built the Illinois racing industry. If it helps the thoroughbred horsemen at both tracks and happens to help the harness horsemen too, it sounds like a win-win for horsemen of all stripes as well as Illinois agricultural interests in general ... those same agricultural interests the Illinois Racing Act was supposed to benefit  

Not Dodge Ball at all. A statutory change in the "tax" on ADW revenue in the form of contributions to the local industry would be exactly the same as a tax. Call it an income tax.

At any rate, we've established here that your primary concern here is with the income and profits of the ADWs. Because they would have been the only ones that had to turn over any of their current revenue. Twin Spires actually less than any other, actually, since you claim it's already contributing the princely 3.2%.

When you start your own business let us know so that we can stand to the side and empty your pockets.

No more Dodge Ball... Now you've buried you head in the sand. Next subject.. Do you have another posting? We've beat this one into the ground...

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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #176 on: November 27, 2013, 05:04:52 PM »

If these real people don't accept that change is coming and work to be part of that change, they will have it forced upon them.  A little pain now, or a lot of pain later. 

We've been whistling past the graveyard the last few years ignoring the obvious because slots were going to save the day.  No one is talking about slots anymore.

Oh sure they are. Just not right now. They're all of them holding out for slots, even CDI and Arlington. If CDI didn't think there was a possibility they would dump AP in a minute just like when they saw Hollywood Park was never going to get slots.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #177 on: November 27, 2013, 05:07:37 PM »

When you start your own business let us know so that we can stand to the side and empty your pockets.

No more Dodge Ball... Now you've buried you head in the sand. Next subject.. Do you have another posting? We've beat this one into the ground...

So you admit you can't carry your argument by continuing to change the subject and pretend there was some alternate proposal when there wasn't. Good for you. No more burying your head in the sand of denial.
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aregulation
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« Reply #178 on: November 27, 2013, 05:08:51 PM »

Oh sure they are. Just not right now. They're all of them holding out for slots, even CDI and Arlington. If CDI didn't think there was a possibility they would dump AP in a minute just like when they saw Hollywood Park was never going to get slots.

His head is out of the sand!! This is a logical position.

You never answered the previous post.. If you were Chairman of the Illinois Racing Board which proposal would you support. I gave you three. You can ignore what you don't want to answer and you avoid what you can't answer.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 05:13:45 PM by aregulation » Report to moderator   Logged
aregulation
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« Reply #179 on: November 27, 2013, 05:10:40 PM »

So you admit you can't carry your argument by continuing to change the subject and pretend there was some alternate proposal when there wasn't. Good for you. No more burying your head in the sand of denial.

Correct in one aspect... You can't argue with someone that can't reason.

You never answered the previous post.. If you were Chairman of the Illinois Racing Board which proposal would you support. I gave you three. You can ignore what you don't want to answer and you avoid what you can't answer.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 05:15:27 PM by aregulation » Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #180 on: November 27, 2013, 05:11:00 PM »

His head is out of the sand!! This is a logical position.

And when you finally explain how LESS money for thoroughbred purses is actually better than MORE money, things will be all tidied up here.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #181 on: November 27, 2013, 05:11:50 PM »

Correct in one aspect... You can't argue with someone that can't reason.

As in "Less is better than More" ?
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aregulation
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« Reply #182 on: November 27, 2013, 05:21:03 PM »

And when you finally explain how LESS money for thoroughbred purses is actually better than MORE money, things will be all tidied up here.

Head out the sand for a moment please... Never said less is more. The point is... if you are going to take money from an ADW company that has a contract with a thoroughbred track keep the money with the thoroughbreds that have contracts with the ADW company it is taken from. Never proposed that ADW keep what they have.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 05:29:38 PM by aregulation » Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #183 on: November 27, 2013, 05:30:22 PM »

Head out the sand for a moment please... Never said less is more. The point is... . Never proposed that ADW keep what they have.

Then you're all for increasing the percentages the ADW companies pay to thoroughbred purses, even to 4.25%? Just so long as harness gets none. Well, that's fair enough. When do the ADWs begin handing the extra money over?

Oh wait ... they won't, unless they're forced to by a change to the law. And there won't be any change to the law unless harness interests agree to it too. So we're never going to have to worry about "if you are going to take money from a ADW company that has a contract with a thoroughbred track keep the money with the thoroughbreds that have contracts with the ADW company it is taken from."

Well. That should make the thoroughbred owners quite happy, I mean the Illinois ones, who are seeing ZIP increase as a result of this latest proposed extension. We didn't get anything but "continued employment", but neither did those evil harness guys. Heh heh heh we sure outfoxed them this time!

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The Turf Monster
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« Reply #184 on: November 27, 2013, 06:05:44 PM »

As in "Less is better than More" ?

Terry, your argument assumes that without ADW, all of that handle would end up on track or at an OTB.  That's a fantasy.  The overwhelming amount of that handle would go to poker, some offshore site, or nowhere.  We can't have a discussion about what ADW adds to the picture and why it should be justly-compensated until you accept that reality
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« Reply #185 on: November 27, 2013, 06:47:03 PM »

Terry, your argument assumes that without ADW, all of that handle would end up on track or at an OTB.  That's a fantasy.

And that seems to be where we are stuck, the idea we can go back to the way it used to be. People wagering from the comfort of their home, or at the office, or while at the beach, is not a passing fad. We now have access to a world wide audience, not just those within driving distance of the track. 

We can't fixate on our piece of the shrinking existing pie at the expense of working to increase the size of the pie.  Our goal should be to put out a product that the horse playing world wants to support - and the ADWs bid against each other to be a part of.
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The Turf Monster
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« Reply #186 on: November 27, 2013, 07:35:05 PM »

And that seems to be where we are stuck, the idea we can go back to the way it used to be. People wagering from the comfort of their home, or at the office, or while at the beach, is not a passing fad. We now have access to a world wide audience, not just those within driving distance of the track. 

We can't fixate on our piece of the shrinking existing pie at the expense of working to increase the size of the pie.  Our goal should be to put out a product that the horse playing world wants to support - and the ADWs bid against each other to be a part of.

Exactly, something tells me that oak lawn, keeneland, nyra, etc dont get into these fits with ADw providers.  If you have a product that people want, you won't have a problem selling it.  If you want to run 10.5 months a year and can't support it, you're going to be in the position that Illinois is in
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #187 on: November 27, 2013, 09:13:06 PM »

Terry, your argument assumes that without ADW, all of that handle would end up on track or at an OTB. 

No, my argument assumes every bit of came OUT of some track or OTB, and the revenue from it that used to support live racing in Illinois is now being sucked out by the ADW companies. The new delivery boys are charging WAY more than the old ones for basically the same service and not really supporting Illinois racing in the process.

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We can't have a discussion about what ADW adds to the picture and why it should be justly-compensated until you accept that reality

When you accept the reality that I'm not advocating closing the ADWs, we can continue. If you keep fabricating what I'm arguing and then arguing against that it's a waste of time.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #188 on: November 27, 2013, 09:13:52 PM »

And that seems to be where we are stuck, the idea we can go back to the way it used to be.

That might be where you are stuck.
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beobob
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« Reply #189 on: November 27, 2013, 09:31:26 PM »

That might be where you are stuck.

Happy Thanksgiving.
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #190 on: November 27, 2013, 10:27:13 PM »

Happy Thanksgiving.

Turf Monster and aregulation:  You must know by now that arguing with Terry is like running around a track with no finish line.  He just keeps adding more furlongs to it until you get tired and quit.  Beobob has been in races with Terry before and has declared his own finish line in this thread by finishing with good summary posts and then heading for the barn.  I suggest you do the same.

Happy Thanksgiving to you guys and thanks for your good efforts at keeping racing going!
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #191 on: November 28, 2013, 11:28:08 PM »

Turf Monster and aregulation:  You must know by now that arguing with Terry is like running around a track with no finish line.  He just keeps adding more furlongs to it until you get tired and quit.  Beobob has been in races with Terry before and has declared his own finish line in this thread by finishing with good summary posts and then heading for the barn.  I suggest you do the same.

Nothing to contribute to the actual subject matter as usual, I see.

Just more of the "APCD Dan Hollywood Insider" celebrity gossip show.
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