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Author Topic: NEW SULKY to be used at POCONO  (Read 4261 times)
Homestretch
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« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2013, 02:45:47 PM »

If it makes even the slightest difference, it will help !!
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Mel from Moline
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« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2013, 02:55:12 PM »

Somebody believes bikes make a difference.....Try being a catch driver without one of the 4 big bikes and see how many drives you get



Sure...but do you think if you have a 5 year old harmer as compared to the new spider it makes a difference? Does anyone really think a wood shafted bike on a world champion is going to hurt? I will certianly grant the thought that it only takes a few inches to win, but if YOU TRULY BELIEVE the bike makes that much difference, you'e sadly mistaken.

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« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2013, 02:56:58 PM »

Sure...but do you think if you have a 5 year old harmer as compared to the new spider it makes a difference? Does anyone really think a wood shafted bike on a world champion is going to hurt? I will certianly grant the thought that it only takes a few inches to win, but if YOU TRULY BELIEVE the bike makes that much difference, you'e sadly mistaken.




DONT WANNA ARGUE,,BUT WHEN  U WIN BY AN INCH OR LOSE BY AN  INCH,,WOOD U NOT WANT ,,THE MOST,,AERODYNAMIC BIKE,,

JUST ASKIN
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the exactorman
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« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2013, 09:23:19 PM »

Just because you are given a piece of info doesnt mean its important eman...
I agree with you. It would seem as if they can provide better program info such as providing 2nd quarter times for each horse. Sports Eye always provided that, which was great. Many nights Meadowlands has strong winds on backstretch quarter. Knowing who went a tough trip into that quarter would be helpful....more than what bike is being used.
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Mel from Moline
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« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2013, 09:26:24 PM »

Scientists will tell you at 30-33mph the "aerodynamics" you mention are a microscopic difference. Just like the weight of the driver because of the rolling start.
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« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2013, 10:36:39 PM »

Scientists will tell you at 30-33mph the "aerodynamics" you mention are a microscopic difference. Just like the weight of the driver because of the rolling start.

So at 240 lbs, I still have a chance to be leading driver at Hoover Downs?  laughing guy

Did these scientists ever figure out why almost every harness driver is 5'8" 153 lbs?  And why did they tell us how aerodynamically shaped vehicles were going to save on gas?  dunno
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« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2013, 08:44:33 AM »

Scientists will tell you at 30-33mph the "aerodynamics" you mention are a microscopic difference. Just like the weight of the driver because of the rolling start.
I think this new sulky is for improving tracking, not aerodynamics, if you can stop the swaying of the bike, the rolling friction can be reduced dramatically. If you watch these races closely some of the bikes are like flags waving behind the horse. Stop that and who knows what could happen, maybe a second drop, which would be huge!
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dennycrane
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« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2013, 09:55:04 AM »

randy  u need to tell a few of them guys to sit still
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HarnessFanDE
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« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2013, 10:14:21 AM »

Yeah that bullshit about the weight of the driver not making any difference has always cracked me up.....I'll take Yannick Gingras you can have Ben Stafford
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SHOWTIME!!!
stone162
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« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2013, 10:18:06 AM »

This is not the 1st time that you have stated this type of opinion.  When I handicap, I can narrow down the field usually to 2,3 or 4 horses per race, pretty quickly & then race by race, narrow it down further, based on odds, track bias & other factors.  Included in those other factors is equipment changes & possibly sulkies.

Notably, at PPK, Bruce Ranger has had some struggles during the "prime" season here the last few years.  He has had a great season this year, which coincides with his recent acquisition of the UFO bike.  At some tracks, it still means something.

If this add-on is ground-breaking or even just a small factor it could make a difference in a tight finish.  I think it is just plain wrong to ignore it.

I laugh at posts like this one..........Ranger had a .350 udr before the UFO and he has the same UDR now.....been over .320 the last 3 years so it isnt the bike
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Psycho Dad
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« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2013, 10:24:23 AM »

If I was still playing this game full time, I would be charting every sulky -- because they do make a difference -- a big difference.  Of course when a horse wins by open lengths, or loses by a substantial amount, or has a driver who does not know how to take advantage of the advantages of the sulky -- it doesn't matter.

Unfortunately, it is not like the days of old, when you only needed to compare good sulky against poor sulky -- there is now a menu, and would take a lot of work to chart them all.  What the Meadowlands offers is good, but not good enough for the handicapper.  Handicappers need to know about sullky changes and determine if they thought it made a difference.

Personally, I did not think the UFO improved upon the other new-style sulkies, and drivers were being sold a bill of goods spending the extra bucks for it.

Historically, the greatest improvement ever was the Joe King single shaft sulky going against the regular sulkies of its day.  Forget what everybody told you about why the single shaft sulky went out of favor.  The real story is that another manufacturer tried to recreate the King sulky, and a lot of horsemen invested in this inferior product and were out big bucks.  These "losers" (for lack of a better word) made such a fuss because they were at such a big disadvantage with their knock-off version, that they got the best sulky ever created -- permanently banned.
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JOHN W
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« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2013, 10:48:39 AM »

I think the "between the shafts" theory is very strong in determining the outcome of the race. The equipment the horse uses, including the race bike, has a factor in the final outcome. We all know that change is important in our game to keep a fresh face on things. But we also should not forget, if I am correct, that the fastest mile paced ( Time trialed at Lex's Red Mile) was to one of the old style Haughton bikes. This style bike was balanced as well as any. My personal opinion is that the wheels on the bike have a major impact on the speed of the horse. I for one like the Pete Alagna wheels from what I have seen and heard. My final thought on this is:  " That is why it is called horse racing"!

Good luck to everyone. I would rather be lucky than good anytime!
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Sam R
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« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2013, 10:53:09 AM »

If I was still playing this game full time, I would be charting every sulky -- because they do make a difference -- a big difference.  Of course when a horse wins by open lengths, or loses by a substantial amount, or has a driver who does not know how to take advantage of the advantages of the sulky -- it doesn't matter.

Unfortunately, it is not like the days of old, when you only needed to compare good sulky against poor sulky -- there is now a menu, and would take a lot of work to chart them all.  What the Meadowlands offers is good, but not good enough for the handicapper.  Handicappers need to know about sullky changes and determine if they thought it made a difference.

Personally, I did not think the UFO improved upon the other new-style sulkies, and drivers were being sold a bill of goods spending the extra bucks for it.

Historically, the greatest improvement ever was the Joe King single shaft sulky going against the regular sulkies of its day.  Forget what everybody told you about why the single shaft sulky went out of favor.  The real story is that another manufacturer tried to recreate the King sulky, and a lot of horsemen invested in this inferior product and were out big bucks.  These "losers" (for lack of a better word) made such a fuss because they were at such a big disadvantage with their knock-off version, that they got the best sulky ever created -- permanently banned.
It was dangerous. If it lasted there would have been cripling and deaths.
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Psycho Dad
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« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2013, 11:06:56 AM »

It was dangerous. If it lasted there would have been cripling and deaths.

That was the story the people who lost their shirts on the phony single shaft started to get it banned.  The fact is that it is safer than any other sulky ever made because  -- since the horse is not restricted by two shafts -- the horse was able to avoid incidents.

Think of al the terrible accidents where trailing horses have run over fallen comrades.  With the single shaft, the horse could make 90 degree turns if necessary.
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Sam R
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« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2013, 11:10:18 AM »

My trainer/driver at the time Jimmy Bernstein had the shaft split apart at the top just as he was crossing the finish line dumping him. He sued King. I don't know the outcome.
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Dolfan
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« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2013, 01:30:23 PM »

I laugh at posts like this one..........Ranger had a .350 udr before the UFO and he has the same UDR now.....been over .320 the last 3 years so it isnt the bike

You haven't paid attention over the last few years.  Ranger bats .420 in Sept, Oct & Nov.  Then when Dillander & Plano & Nap show up in Dec, Jan & Feb, with their bikes, he went from .420 to .350.  Huge difference between last year & this year, especially on front-runners.

Believe me when I say that Bruce would NEVER have spent that kind of money on a bike if he did not know that he would get it back.
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Mel from Moline
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« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2013, 02:09:01 PM »

So at 240 lbs, I still have a chance to be leading driver at Hoover Downs?  laughing guy

Did these scientists ever figure out why almost every harness driver is 5'8" 153 lbs?  And why did they tell us how aerodynamically shaped vehicles were going to save on gas?  dunno



vehicles dont travel at 30-33 mph at their fastest...but touche'. As for the drivers...Cat Manzi or Tony Morgan isnt either of those...,how many wins they got? Just that most are in that category. (Again, Im not saying it doesnt make a small difference, which could be the difference between winning and second, just not the ridiculous disparity proclaimed earlier...3 seconds)
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 02:11:48 PM by Mel from Moline » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2013, 03:15:31 PM »

vehicles dont travel at 30-33 mph at their fastest...but touche'. As for the drivers...Cat Manzi or Tony Morgan isnt either of those...,how many wins they got? Just that most are in that category. (Again, Im not saying it doesnt make a small difference, which could be the difference between winning and second, just not the ridiculous disparity proclaimed earlier...3 seconds)

We'll hold off on the 3 second claim until it is being used, considering 1/3 of that would make it the most valuable piece of equipment ever. 

Manzi is the exception - how tall is Morgan & how much does he weigh?

I was just giving you the prototype of the harness driver.  Speaking your language, McIlroy is not the tallest guy but he's among the longest drivers while most others are allot beefier - Dustin, Colsaerts, Garrigus, Beljan, Quiros...
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We can produce more wealth, but we cannot produce more time.  When we give someone our time, we actually give a portion of our life that we will never get back.
Mel from Moline
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« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2013, 03:37:48 PM »

We'll hold off on the 3 second claim until it is being used, considering 1/3 of that would make it the most valuable piece of equipment ever.  

Manzi is the exception - how tall is Morgan & how much does he weigh?

I was just giving you the prototype of the harness driver.  Speaking your language, McIlroy is not the tallest guy but he's among the longest drivers while most others are allot beefier - Dustin, Colsaerts, Garrigus, Beljan, Quiros...


Morgan is probably 6'3 and 180...doesnt really matter. The golf analogy is an apt one...driving skill isnt dependant on size near as much as being in position and knowing when and how to use the momentum, which in a horse race is EVERYTHING. Just as raw swing speed is to a long driver in golf. Being a "smaller" driver helps, but isnt the end all.

In an odd sidenote about Tony Morgan...he's the KING of the gimmick bikes, so you can bet he'll have one as quick as anyone.
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MR.DALRAE
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« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2013, 05:51:58 PM »

IF THE 2 CHEAPEST DRIVERS IN THE GAME BOUGHT UFOS IT MUST BE GOOOD,,,,RANGER AND SAFTIC
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« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2013, 08:37:15 PM »

Morgan is probably 6'3 and 180...
I am at this very moment looking at a picture of Tony Morgan standing next to me. I guaranty you 100% that Tony is less then six foot.
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I am just an old "Hoss" trainer, that has been raced hard and put away wet. 
As my Friend from Maine(Ora Stratton) says "There are horse trainers, and then there are real "Hoss" trainers.
Mel from Moline
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« Reply #46 on: February 27, 2013, 09:00:03 PM »

I am at this very moment looking at a picture of Tony Morgan standing next to me. I guaranty you 100% that Tony is less then six foot.


Is it life size?  A fathead, perhaps?


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Dolfan
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« Reply #47 on: March 20, 2013, 02:23:08 PM »

Thought this can use a bump as we near opening day.
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« Reply #48 on: March 21, 2013, 05:01:18 AM »

Thought this can use a bump as we near opening day.
From what I'm hearing from a trainer who has been involved with developing and testing the prototypes.  The manufacturer, Tel Star,  has sold a bike to a driver/trainer at the Pocono. They have obtained permission to use the bike for experimental purposes. Also the trainer who has been testing the prototypes, has said the bike goes through turns as fast as it can go straight, and it does not inhibit the horse in the turns.     
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Daydreamer
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« Reply #49 on: March 21, 2013, 07:49:59 AM »

After I cash my first ticket I will let the cat out of the bag.
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