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Author Topic: Devilfish...  (Read 5111 times)
TK
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« Reply #50 on: June 19, 2006, 02:22:12 AM »

oh boy... .here come the conspiracy theory's....

NJ Paul.... shoot me a pm and let me know what you're dislike for Waxman comes from if you would..... I'm not saying it's good or bad just want to know why you have those feelings...

TK
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MC
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« Reply #51 on: June 19, 2006, 04:29:21 AM »


   TK you can't be that stupid!
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bettor2belucky
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« Reply #52 on: June 19, 2006, 07:33:02 AM »

TK,
The guy didn't pay his bills in Harrisburg and stiffed alot of good people. Then shifts his assets to his son........nice guy .. I'm sure Paul could add more to it..

                Bettor
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njhorseman
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« Reply #53 on: June 19, 2006, 08:31:35 AM »

oh boy... .here come the conspiracy theory's....

NJ Paul.... shoot me a pm and let me know what you're dislike for Waxman comes from if you would..... I'm not saying it's good or bad just want to know why you have those feelings...

TK

TK:

No need for a PM...these are matters of public record.

Bob Waxman stiffed Standardbred Horse Sales Company, Hanover Shoe Farms, and his former trainer Bob McIntosh for hundreds of thousands of dollars. He was sued, judgements were obtained, and he still didn't pay. His license was lifted as a result. He transferred ownership of many of his best horses, including Loyal Opposition, to his son, Daniel (who was in college and certainly couldn't afford to legitimately buy them). They now race under the Vandalay Racing name...itself a slap in the face of the authorities, because the history of the name Vandalay on the old "Seinfeld" TV show.

Eventully Waxman worked out a deal with McIntosh, who settled for a percentage of what he was owed. Hanover Shoe Farms and Standardbred Horse Sales Company got him to sell off a lot of his stock at Harrisburg, and the proceeds were used to pay off his debts there.

In addition to the civil matters involving horseracing related debts, Waxman faces serious civil and criminal charges in Canada over alleged fraudulent activities he committed while running the family business. He is accused, among other things, of defrauding other family members out of their rightful ownership share of the business.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #54 on: June 19, 2006, 08:40:40 AM »

First let me say....I didnt accuse Erv Miller of giving this horse anything other then hay, oats, and water
I just threw the question out there
But, It wouldnt be the first stakes caliber horse that came out of a stakes race that was given something else
Does the name Loyal Opposition ring a bell, wasnt it her that had her purse money DQ in Lexington? in a stakes race?



"Lusty"

If you are talking about what happened this past fall, the positive in Lexington was one of a number of identical positives called on several trainers. All the horses were treated by  the same vet, who had screwed up and didn't follow the state's newly adopted medication policy. The horses would not have come up positive a week or two earlier, before the new rule was adopted.

All the trainers were fined under the trainer's responsibility rule. None were suspended because the vet's error was the cause of the problem (The vet was also punished). I think the penalties were appropriate, and no reasonable person could blame the trainers for what happened.
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trotter1
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« Reply #55 on: June 19, 2006, 03:16:25 PM »

I would give 8 John Drew's for 1 DEVILFISH!!!!
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TheTruth
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« Reply #56 on: June 19, 2006, 05:17:20 PM »

Was just too immature and wasn't ready for it all.... Nice to see a trainer who recognizes that and an owner who doesn't pressure him to pushing the horse to the races....Good things come to those who wait...and have some talent and brains

TK,

Thanks for the response.  I agree that it was a smart move on Erv's part to exercise patience.

Does anybody know where this monster is headed next?  Hoosier Cup?  I don't believe he is staked to the race.  What is the supplement payment if there is a supplement for this race?
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race track phil
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« Reply #57 on: June 19, 2006, 05:25:54 PM »

              There has been a lot of points made about devilfish not beating any high caliber horses who can look him in the eye . they are valid points and we will have to wait and see how he responds to pressure ! but there I have been many great horses who get better with pressure applied to them ! just think if this horse gets a lot better with pressure as some horses have before . I personally think he will get better and see a monster like we have'nt seen since bret hanover ! but time will tell ! I'm sure pulling for this horse to be something special that may revive harness racing like CIGAR did to help the t- breds .                                      RTP
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #58 on: June 19, 2006, 05:31:46 PM »

TK,

Thanks for the response.  I agree that it was a smart move on Erv's part to exercise patience.

Does anybody know where this monster is headed next?  Hoosier Cup?  I don't believe he is staked to the race.  What is the supplement payment if there is a supplement for this race?

He's not paid in to the Hoosier Cup.  I don't believe you can supplement -- does anyone know?

Best,
EW
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TheTruth
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« Reply #59 on: June 19, 2006, 05:44:06 PM »

He's not paid in to the Hoosier Cup.  I don't believe you can supplement -- does anyone know?

Best,
EW

EW,

Starting fee is $5,000.  I would guess that the supplement is $50,000 or more if there is one.

Supplements may be another topic for you to start.  I don't agree with supplements.  If you didn't pay stakes payments all along like everyone else, you shouldn't be let in.  JMO
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DLeestable
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« Reply #60 on: June 19, 2006, 09:05:22 PM »

I don't know if Devilfish is going to the Hoosier Cup but I do know that Western Shore is going.
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Mclock
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« Reply #61 on: June 19, 2006, 09:19:33 PM »

I THINK IF HE STAYS HEALTHY AND SOUND THEY MAY NEVER GET THE CHANCE TO LOOK HIM IN THE EYE......YES HE HAS BEATEN ONLY  rat'S BUT HES BEEN ON CRUISE CONTROL THE WHOLE MILE.....HE LOOKS LIKE HE IS JUST GOING A TRAINING MILE.....KINDA REMINDS ME OF FOREST SKIPPER.
                                                        trotter
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Tsunami
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« Reply #62 on: June 19, 2006, 09:34:57 PM »

Here is the list of eligibles and the condition sheet, I see nothing about supplementing or Devilfish

http://www.hoosierpark.com/racing_information/horsemen/stakes_nominations/HoosierCup2006.pdf

http://www.hoosierpark.com/racing_information/horsemen/condition_book/condition_sheet_06242006.pdf

But one never knows
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nelly
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« Reply #63 on: June 20, 2006, 12:16:59 PM »

Edward william,

I spoke with Kevin Mack about Devilfish and no he will not be in the Hoosier Cup. Kevin stated that it wouldn't look right if a N/W of 3 beat this field!!!!
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Claiming King
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« Reply #64 on: June 20, 2006, 12:50:36 PM »

KINDA REMINDS ME OF FOREST SKIPPER.

Well, Forrest Skipper wasn't one of the best ten horses of his generation.
           
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #65 on: June 20, 2006, 12:56:53 PM »

Edward william,

I spoke with Kevin Mack about Devilfish and no he will not be in the Hoosier Cup. Kevin stated that it wouldn't look right if a N/W of 3 beat this field!!!!

Thanks, Nelly.

On an aside, is it possible to supplement?

Best,
EW
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TK
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« Reply #66 on: June 20, 2006, 01:56:31 PM »

Hey MC

GIve me some clarification who you were talking when you said "you can't be that stupid" Waxman, Erv, Both?
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TK
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« Reply #67 on: June 20, 2006, 02:08:18 PM »

NJ Paul

Great response for Lusty... It was a Vet error and some big outfits wound up being the victimis in the whole mess.  In regards to his 2 positives at Haw for the same thing that is a minor Class 4 I believe which results in only a fine and purse redid. Talking with Erv I totally believe him when he says he does not know who those horses got that. He had only 2 babies he was using it on and they were no where near those 2. He's stumped and has sent off a ton of shit at his expense (hay, feed, supplements) for testing to try and figure it out. Nice to see a trainer that really cares how hise reord looks an does not  any blemishes on it.  That's a big reason he attracts some of the top owners in the game.

In the Waxman deal I really don't wish to comment on his previous doing or his previous ones. Since I'm not involved it's not my business.  The one thing I would like say is that he's been but a big time CLASS ACT to my wife and I whenever we have seen him here, Kentucky, Vegas, N.Jersey.  He also seems to care about things when you talk to him that means a lot. We've all got our shortcoming but quite frankly I'm very happy to call him a friend. NOW FOR THE GOOFY KID OF HIS DANNY THATS ANOTHER THING!  Just kidding
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njhorseman
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« Reply #68 on: June 20, 2006, 02:43:19 PM »



In the Waxman deal I really don't wish to comment on his previous doing or his previous ones. Since I'm not involved it's not my business.  The one thing I would like say is that he's been but a big time CLASS ACT to my wife and I whenever we have seen him here, Kentucky, Vegas, N.Jersey.  He also seems to care about things when you talk to him that means a lot. We've all got our shortcoming but quite frankly I'm very happy to call him a friend. NOW FOR THE GOOFY KID OF HIS DANNY THATS ANOTHER THING!  Just kidding

TK:

You may like Bob Waxman, but you might want to ask Murray Brown of Hanover Shoe Farms/Standardbred Horse Sales, or Bob McIntosh what they think of him.

And, don't you think it odd that his horses race under the Vandalay Stable name, whose sole principal per USTA records is Daniel Waxman? Now why would that be?

Perhaps you would be interested in a couple of headlines from the Toronto Globe and Mail:

Police charge Philip executive
By TERRY WEBER

Globe and Mail Update

Monday, December 20, 2004

RCMP have charged a former senior executive of Philip Services Corp. with 12 counts of fraud, accusing him of siphoning off profits following a five-year probe that crossed the Canada-U.S. border and saw investigators conduct more than 200 interviews.

Robert Karey Waxman, the former president of Philip's metals recovery group, is accused of defrauding the company of about $20-million (U.S.) between Jan. 1, 1996 and Dec. 31, 1997.

OSC adjourns hearing into Philip's president
By Janet McFarland


Thursday, March 9, 2006, Page B12

The Ontario Securities Commission has adjourned its hearing in the case of former Philip Services Corp. executive Robert Waxman pending the outcome of the preliminary hearing in his criminal case. Mr. Waxman, the former president of Philip's metals group, was charged by the RCMP in 1994 with 12 counts of fraud relating to allegations he siphoned money out of Philip in 1996 and 1997. His preliminary hearing is scheduled to be held later this year. The OSC said Mr. Waxman has agreed not to act as a director or officer of a public company pending the outcome of his OSC hearing.


Doesn't seem like the type of guy I would like to call a friend.

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race track phil
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« Reply #69 on: June 20, 2006, 04:53:01 PM »

             PAUL ,          sure you can call him a friend , just dont turn your back on a person with those kind of credentials !  as we have aged i'm sure we both know by now you dont judge a book by its cover ! some people do and find out the ending of the book is in no relation to the beautiful cover !   geezer
                                           RTP
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off stride
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« Reply #70 on: June 20, 2006, 04:55:33 PM »

 
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MC
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« Reply #71 on: June 21, 2006, 05:29:37 PM »


  Told you Erv is NO Saint!
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getemup
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« Reply #72 on: June 27, 2006, 04:25:44 PM »

Friday night at the Big M Devilfish is in the fifth race a nw3 race.....

RACE: 5  -  06/30/2006  -  THE MEADOWLANDS  -  PURSE: $ 15,000  -  CLASS: nw3 cd
GAIT: Pace  -  Late Betting  -  DIST: 1 Mile  -  STRS: 8
PP Horse 2006 Year to Date Driver Clm. Med.
Sts W P S Time Earnings
1 BARTOLOMEO N 3 0 1 0 - $ 4,662 Catello R Manzi $ 0 L
2 DEVILFISH 2 2 0 0 1:50.1M $ 32,350 Andy Ray Miller $ 0 
3 SCOTTS ROLLS ROYCE 13 4 4 0 1:52.0M $ 18,430 Brian J Sears $ 0 L
4 WESTERN MAC 6 2 0 1 1:52.1M $ 16,710 George Brennan $ 0 L
5 LIVESTRONG 0 0 0 0 Q1:55.0H $ 0 David S Miller $ 0 
6 ROSECROFT RUMMY 13 2 2 2 1:55.3M $ 22,210 Catello R Manzi $ 0 
7 KEYSTONE ELI 10 4 4 1 1:51.3M $ 37,221 Yannick Gingras $ 0 L
8 PARTIAL SUNSHINE 19 3 3 2 1:53.2M $ 33,655 Richard S Silverman $ 0 L
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #73 on: June 27, 2006, 04:31:44 PM »

Friday night at the Big M Devilfish is in the fifth race a nw3 race.....

RACE: 5  -  06/30/2006  -  THE MEADOWLANDS  -  PURSE: $ 15,000  -  CLASS: nw3 cd
GAIT: Pace  -  Late Betting  -  DIST: 1 Mile  -  STRS: 8
PP Horse 2006 Year to Date Driver Clm. Med.
Sts W P S Time Earnings
1 BARTOLOMEO N 3 0 1 0 - $ 4,662 Catello R Manzi $ 0 L
2 DEVILFISH 2 2 0 0 1:50.1M $ 32,350 Andy Ray Miller $ 0 
3 SCOTTS ROLLS ROYCE 13 4 4 0 1:52.0M $ 18,430 Brian J Sears $ 0 L
4 WESTERN MAC 6 2 0 1 1:52.1M $ 16,710 George Brennan $ 0 L
5 LIVESTRONG 0 0 0 0 Q1:55.0H $ 0 David S Miller $ 0 
6 ROSECROFT RUMMY 13 2 2 2 1:55.3M $ 22,210 Catello R Manzi $ 0 
7 KEYSTONE ELI 10 4 4 1 1:51.3M $ 37,221 Yannick Gingras $ 0 L
8 PARTIAL SUNSHINE 19 3 3 2 1:53.2M $ 33,655 Richard S Silverman $ 0 L


I'm excited.  If he goes anything like Haw, he'll destroy the 1:50 barrier, and this field.

Best,
EW
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getemup
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« Reply #74 on: June 27, 2006, 04:36:57 PM »

This field doesn't stand a chance.....there isn't anyone in there thats any good!
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