Chicago Barn to Wire
Home | News | Bloggers | Forums | Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Contact Us | Search


December 21, 2014, 10:39:25 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you don't remember your password, email me.

New  registration procedures -- Some ISPs have been bouncing the verification emails.  Please email me to be activated or if you have any problems.  Click Contact Us above.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 [3]  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Tips/advice for conspiracy theorists  (Read 1711 times)
VicD
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2115




Ignore
« Reply #50 on: February 25, 2013, 04:48:14 PM »

Legal meds administered at the wrong time still make it illegal.
Sort of like carrying a boxcutter.
If you work in a warehouse, you carry one all day, every day.
If you take that boxcutter into a nightclub and get caught, ooops...
I get your point and don't even disagree with all of it.
And then we get into the masking agents and all that stuff.
How about one set of rules for meds, for every state. Uniform with no exceptions.
If you deviate from that in any way, you go on the shelf.
It isn't a difficult concept. And one that I would think all horsemen would want, at least the ones who DON'T try to skate and slide around the rules.
It would help clean up the game and make the gamblers happier.
Report to moderator   Logged
Mel from Moline
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3342




Ignore
« Reply #51 on: February 25, 2013, 06:46:16 PM »

1 set of med rules is without a doubt the best way to go. No argument there.
Report to moderator   Logged

Horses make the humans...not the other way around.
Wink Martingale
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2176

"They gave me a hat. I have the hat to this day."




Ignore
« Reply #52 on: February 25, 2013, 06:57:25 PM »

But the thrust of your posts appears to be that guys are violating these rules willfully in any event.  What good will uniformity do if, as you suggest, the rules are observed only in the breach anyway?
Report to moderator   Logged

"Some people like Jews and some do not; but no thoughtful man can doubt the fact that they are beyond all question the most formidable and the most remarkable race which has ever appeared in the world."

--Winston Churchill
jrstark
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6394



« Reply #53 on: February 25, 2013, 07:13:16 PM »

RMTC has been trying to get uniformity for several years now. Part of the problem is some rules need a new state law to change them. For others they can't get agreement on which level. States where more is legal don't want to use less, and others don't want to raise their limits.

On therapeutic meds it isn't black and white. Horses aren't machines, they metabolize at different rates. Also remember we have independent testing. If the lab gets a new test that is more sensitive, a drug that used to be OK 4 days out now requires a week. But nobody knows that until the positives start coming in.

Then you have plain old human error. Maybe the vet pulled a little too much into the syringe, or used a new compounding pharmacy. Maybe the groom used the wrong feed tub. Or maybe the wrong horse got treated. There are all kinds of things that can go wrong.
Report to moderator   Logged
Mel from Moline
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3342




Ignore
« Reply #54 on: February 25, 2013, 07:17:47 PM »

But the thrust of your posts appears to be that guys are violating these rules willfully in any event.  What good will uniformity do if, as you suggest, the rules are observed only in the breach anyway?



Then I cant help you, if you just dont get it.
Report to moderator   Logged

Horses make the humans...not the other way around.
VicD
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2115




Ignore
« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2013, 08:58:06 PM »

How can a vet pull too much into a syringe?
They measure for an amount or a density, against the amount of blood being samples, cc's per liter or per ounce or whatever.
When there is a concentration of any substance in a horses system that is many times what it should be, that's either willful disregard or one very stupid vet who administered the drug.
Just like the carbon dioxide thing. No baking soda exists in an equine stomach, as far as I know. It's not an accident..
As for the other human error, I suppose that is very possible, but again, if there is a concentration in a horse that is say 4 times the allowed amount, and the cutoff time is 3 or 4 days before a race, you can be pretty sure that is wasn't administered 4 days out, and that's just not an accident.
I agree there are too many variables here, but some of them just are not valid.
We're talking about big outfits with deep pockets here, and "the groom pissed on the hay bale" just doesn't quite cut it..
How about same labs and same standards?
And if this is the best the sport can do, in terms of oversight and regulation, than I would say that the ship has too many leaks in it an sinking is unavoidable.
It's not like the idea of uniform regulation is a new one.
And I'm curious as I am no longer an owner: Why has there not been any real tangible results or action on this matter? Wouldn't you think that owners would want to get together and level this field?
Or is there simply too much "wink and a nod" crap going on here...
Report to moderator   Logged
jrstark
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6394



« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2013, 11:51:28 PM »

I meant the vet administering the drug, not the one testing.

Yes, there are plenty of trainers giving meds too close, but those aren't the ones getting 4x normal positives. Most of the time those are mistaken administration. It's wrong, it happens, you lose the purse. But that isn't intent to cheat, it is bad management.

I'm not talking about baking soda, EPO, snake venom etc. Just legit medication that isn't supposed to show up on raceday.

Now drugs like cocaine are almost always contamination. So is caffeine, although they have found that sometimes unlabeled in supplements and tonics.

The judges/stewards do take all of this into consideration (as much as they are allowed by law) when punishing infractions. They also look at any history of positives, as well as extenuating circumstances.
Report to moderator   Logged
Juicejunkies
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 18247

Ignore Button Below↓↓↓


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #57 on: February 25, 2013, 11:58:46 PM »

I meant the vet administering the drug, not the one testing.

Yes, there are plenty of trainers giving meds too close, but those aren't the ones getting 4x normal positives. Most of the time those are mistaken administration. It's wrong, it happens, you lose the purse. But that isn't intent to cheat, it is bad management.

I'm not talking about baking soda, EPO, snake venom etc. Just legit medication that isn't supposed to show up on raceday.

Now drugs like cocaine are almost always contamination. So is caffeine, although they have found that sometimes unlabeled in supplements and tonics.

The judges/stewards do take all of this into consideration (as much as they are allowed by law) when punishing infractions. They also look at any history of positives, as well as extenuating circumstances.


ARE YOU SAYING BUTE AND BANAMINE ARE THERAPUTIC?
Report to moderator   Logged
VicD
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2115




Ignore
« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2013, 08:00:34 AM »

I meant the vet administering the drug, not the one testing.

Yes, there are plenty of trainers giving meds too close, but those aren't the ones getting 4x normal positives. Most of the time those are mistaken administration. It's wrong, it happens, you lose the purse. But that isn't intent to cheat, it is bad management.

I'm not talking about baking soda, EPO, snake venom etc. Just legit medication that isn't supposed to show up on raceday.

Now drugs like cocaine are almost always contamination. So is caffeine, although they have found that sometimes unlabeled in supplements and tonics.

The judges/stewards do take all of this into consideration (as much as they are allowed by law) when punishing infractions. They also look at any history of positives, as well as extenuating circumstances.


Interesting you mention cocaine.
In years past, all of the coke positives I remember, both horse and human, were not due to trace amounts and contamination. But forget that for now.
Where did the coke come from?
Do I want to be betting on an entity that is buying this shit from some lowlife scumbag on a street corner or the local bar?
Like I said before, the "groom pissed in the hay bale" doesn't cut it, and for whoever wants to believe that, that person probably needs to get educated about the way humans do things and for what reasons.
I'm an beginning to think that there is truly no hope of this game ever being cleaned up.
Too many "what ifs" and "I have a bad groom", and "my competition sabotaged me", and "the inspector is out to get me," and "Gural doesn't like me." And on, and on, and on.
Here is a suggestion:
Keep making excuses for EVERYTHING relative to rules for testing. This could happen or that might happen, and continue to take little or no action. Then watch every track but the Meadowlands swirl down the bowl.
And then complain that your only means of making a living have been severely curtailed or eliminated, because lets face it, not everyone is going to race at M1.
Fiddle while Rome burns. God knows that there has been way too many years of inaction going on, but lots of complaining.
The horsemen and track operators are at a crossroads here. Either drastic changes will be made and the chips will fall where they may, or the scumbags are going to slow this down and confuse this with a lot of frivolous litigation.
So which do you choose? Choose your livelihood, or choose apathy and wishing for a desired result?
Report to moderator   Logged
jrstark
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6394



« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2013, 12:32:13 PM »

ARE YOU SAYING BUTE AND BANAMINE ARE THERAPUTIC?

Are you saying they aren't?
Report to moderator   Logged
Juicejunkies
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 18247

Ignore Button Below↓↓↓


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #60 on: February 26, 2013, 12:33:52 PM »

Are you saying they aren't?


Do you think they improve performance.   I am asking as I respect your opinion.    heart
Report to moderator   Logged
jrstark
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6394



« Reply #61 on: February 26, 2013, 01:25:44 PM »

Do you think they improve performance.   I am asking as I respect your opinion.    heart

You would have to give a lot and it would be a very short-term gain. Bute won't make a horse race with a broken bone. Both are NSAIDs, meaning most effective on soft-tissue issues. The thinking is by giving it prior to exertion, you decrease the subsequent recovery time. Racing on a prior injury just makes it worse.

Report to moderator   Logged
APPRENTICE
Guest

« Reply #62 on: February 26, 2013, 01:30:19 PM »

THE THEORIES,,  CONSPIRACIES AND CONCOCKTIONS,,,

ON ,, THIS SITE ARE TRULY AMAZING,,,,,,


« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 01:32:29 PM by LUCPARK » Report to moderator   Logged
burton
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 14881




Ignore
« Reply #63 on: February 26, 2013, 05:24:57 PM »

THE THEORIES,,  CONSPIRACIES AND CONCOCKTIONS,,,

ON ,, THIS SITE ARE TRULY AMAZING,,,,,,



Spot on Rocco!

Sadly follows Sec. of State Kerry's comment saying that in America, people have a right to be stupid.

Shoot me for quoting this guy but it does ring true.
Report to moderator   Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3]  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.078 seconds with 16 queries.

Home
Upcoming events
Breeders' Cup
Horse slaughter in IL
Racing TV schedule
News Updates
Legislation

Galloping Out

Previous stories

Arlington
Balmoral
Hawthorne
Maywood
Chicago Sun-Times
Chicago Tribune
Blood-Horse
Daily Racing Form
Thoroughbred Times
Harness Link
Illinois Racing Board

 

2014

Breeders' Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2013

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2012

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

More ebay items

 

Home | News Updates | Bloggers | Forums | Search
Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Advertising | Contact Us

Copyright © 2000-2014 Chicago Barn to Wire. All rights reserved.
Privacy policy