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Author Topic: Hawthorne announces purse increase...  (Read 1165 times)
dano-themano
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« on: February 22, 2013, 10:27:05 PM »

I am very confused on the reason for the purse increase.  The news release attributes it to the increase in handle because of the suspension of adw.  So if the purses go up when adw is down, why do we want adw?
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« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2013, 10:39:14 PM »

I am very confused on the reason for the purse increase.  The news release attributes it to the increase in handle because of the suspension of adw.  So if the purses go up when adw is down, why do we want adw?

So we can bet on what we want, when we want. So Hawthorne is forced to COMPETE by providing a decent level of racing and not have the protection of being the only game in town.

The state is losing handle and over time so will Hawthorne. Their OTB handle went up because it's winter and their isn't as much to do. And trust me, that money being bet at the OTB's isn't being bet at a higher percentage on Hawthorne races. It's just that Hawthorne-- and Arlington-- get a bigger piece when it's bet at an OTB then they do when it's bet online. No ADW is great for the tracks, not so great for the horseplayers or the industry.

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Trainer Rusty
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« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2013, 12:07:03 AM »

Otb's aren't as close as these tracks think.   ADW is needed.  I'm not buying the purse increase reasoning.
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« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2013, 03:16:38 AM »


  Can one then conclude that the failure to extend ADW legislation was not an inadvertent oversight , but rather a deliberate , calculated , strategic move  orchestrated by the tracks in concert with legislative leadership ?
 
 If so, is it:    the ultimate goal ?   or a smoke screen ?   a bargaining chip ?   or _______?
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« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2013, 08:28:26 AM »

Otb's aren't as close as these tracks think.   ADW is needed.  I'm not buying the purse increase reasoning.

I agree with you. The reason for the purse increase is that they based the levels off of last year's numbers - the ADW action, not accounting for the fresh OTB money that would come in.

Plus, its kinda of hard to understand after 3 days of racing they could come to a reasonable conculsion such as this.

I have a hard time understanding that 3 days of racing will dicate a 15% increase, so I'm thinking that they really undershot the purse level to almost 'create' this increase for positive news
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2013, 08:46:36 AM »

 Can one then conclude that the failure to extend ADW legislation was not an inadvertent oversight , but rather a deliberate , calculated , strategic move  orchestrated by the tracks in concert with legislative leadership ?

Not if you believe the Arlington propaganda we saw previously that said it was all the fault of the horsemen, for not meekly bending over and accepting the loss of all the 10th casino money that hasn't been paid out even after the 10th casino is up and running because our "strong & wise industry leaders" from Arlington and their people who crafted the 1999 law couldn't get the language right to make the payment mandatory or more likely were simply out-maneuvered yet again.

So IMHO it has become a bargaining chip some legislators are using for the $80 million (and future millions) that they seem to view as "found money".
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 08:48:45 AM by honest & balanced terry » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2013, 08:56:17 AM »

"This is in keeping with our ongoing commitment to reinvest in Illinois racing," said Tim Carey, president and general manager of Hawthorne. "We continue to work closely with our horsemen to provide rewarding racing opportunities."

 Mike Campbell, Illinois Thoroughbred Horsemen's Association president, said, "This is going to make a significant difference for many trainers here at Hawthorne. I think almost everyone involved in Illinois racing understands where the industry is at financially, and this is a great example of how we need to work together so that we can all get to the next phase of Illinois horse racing." 



Read more on BloodHorse.com: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/76429/hawthorne-to-hike-overnight-purses-15#ixzz2LjamkzsH
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DaPaver
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« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2013, 09:22:53 AM »

Would Arlington do the same, NOT
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« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2013, 09:27:28 AM »

Would Arlington do the same, NOT

THEY DID, last year or the year before, cause of a good Million Day
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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2013, 09:42:03 AM »

THEY DID, last year or the year before, cause of a good Million Day

That kind of talk is frowned on here.
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ggenie
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« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2013, 10:16:53 AM »

Not because of a good Million Day.  Because the impact fee money was released that week.  Otherwise we were looking at a purse cut.  Million Day is always a $2M loss to the purse account.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2013, 10:26:32 AM »

THEY DID, last year or the year before, cause of a good Million Day

I thought the August 2011 purse increase was due to receiving the free money:

http://www.arlingtonpark.com/news/archives/arlington-park-increase-purses-effective-aug-12

As for last year ... ? Wasn't that the year Sporthorse assured us there was a going to be a big 20% purse CUT after the Million but it never happened? Oh wait, no, that was 2011 as well.

As for 2012, I don't see such a story in the archives for last year?

http://www.barntowire.com/Archive-AP.shtml
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« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2013, 10:35:45 AM »

Not because of a good Million Day.  Because the impact fee money was released that week.  Otherwise we were looking at a purse cut.  Million Day is always a $2M loss to the purse account.

Where do you get these numbers that it is a 2 million dollar LOSS to the purse account?

The published purses are obviously 'projections' based on money bet, and if they project that they are gonna handle x amount, and they handle x amount plus 10%, that is a good million Day.

Now I have no idea what they project as far as handle is concern for that specific day

2011 was because of the impact fee, but I'm almost positive 2012 there was a purse increase of some kind. If I ever get a second I'll go back through charts to try and prove it.
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« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2013, 10:43:23 AM »

Well, it's because the track has been taken over by 1:08 sprinters, DUH!
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2013, 10:54:25 AM »

Where do you get these numbers that it is a 2 million dollar LOSS to the purse account?

I think ggenie means it costs $2M more in purses than it generates from the wagering.

For instance, total wagering on the card in 2012 was reported at $14,785,748  Most of that comes from out of state and ADW, and produces very little purse money or track commission. 2%each, maybe, for probably > $10M of that handle.

But let's say even it was all bet on track, where the horsemen see about 7% of every dollar. That $14,785,748 would generate $1,035,002 in purse money at that 7%. (I'd guess < $700,000 would be a more accurate and still generous number based on the mix of handle sources.) But meanwhile, they gave away $3,002,400 in purses.

So, $3,002,400 - $1,035,002 = ($1,967,398) or ~$2M
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 11:13:51 AM by honest & balanced terry » Report to moderator   Logged

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jrstark
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« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2013, 11:04:23 AM »

Where do you get these numbers that it is a 2 million dollar LOSS to the purse account?

The published purses are obviously 'projections' based on money bet, and if they project that they are gonna handle x amount, and they handle x amount plus 10%, that is a good million Day.

Now I have no idea what they project as far as handle is concern for that specific day

2011 was because of the impact fee, but I'm almost positive 2012 there was a purse increase of some kind. If I ever get a second I'll go back through charts to try and prove it.

Quote
In addition, the all-sources commingled handle of $14,785,748 was 14 percent higher than the $13,017,554 wagered on the 2011 Million Day card. On track, the $2,891,660 bet was 13 percent higher than the $2,562,613 handled the previous year.

http://www.barntowire.com/2012/APrelease120819.html

Only approx. 1.5% of that offsite $12M goes to purses = $180,000. There's a higher percentage from onsite and ADW, but it still doesn't cover the $2.65M for the four big stakes.

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brianwspencer
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« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2013, 11:08:22 AM »

I think both happened.

From a pair of emails I have lingering around:

Quote
ARLINGTON HEIGHTS, Ill. (Aug. 11, 2011) – The positive development of the release of the Horse Racing Equity (“HRE”) Trust Fund money to the Arlington Park purse account has lead to a purse increase for the racetrack effective Friday, Aug. 12, 2011.

Quote
ARLINGTON HEIGHTS, Ill. (Aug. 23, 2011) – As a result of strong purse earnings from the  pari-mutuel handle on the Aug. 13 International Festival of Racing program, Arlington Park management has announced that average purse distribution will be increased by $10,000 per day from $202,000 to $212,000 effective with the Thursday, Aug. 25 racing program.
 
“The success of last week’s International Festival of Racing exceeded our projections and as a result we are able to again raise our purses for overnight races,” said Arlington Park General Manager Tony Petrillo.  “When Arlington Park is able to bring top quality stakes races to a national and international market, the revenues earned from those races allow us to bolster our overnight program for the horsemen who race with us season long.”
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2013, 11:17:42 AM »

Thanks for the research, Brian. Maybe the Million wagering was strong enough that it wasn't quite the big hole blasted in the purse account they expected? Or maybe the boat money cushioned the blow?

Wasn't there also some back and forth with the horsemen over exactly how much of the boat money was going to be spent in 2011? Did that lead to another adjustment after the initial announcement?
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« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2013, 11:27:42 AM »

Do all tracks get the same percentage off of ADW?
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2013, 11:40:37 AM »

Do all tracks get the same percentage off of ADW?

No. Tracks like Gulfstream, Santa Anita, Saratoga, etc. can charge more to the ADWs. What the tracks (or their 3rd wheel ADW arm taking cuts off both sides) give their horsemen out of that is another matter.
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jrstark
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« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2013, 11:46:03 AM »

Do all tracks get the same percentage off of ADW?

Under the Illinois rules, in order to be licensed an ADW provider must have a contract with a racetrack. The percentages are in those contracts. Otherwise it's just the regular simul percentage depending on where the money is entering the pools.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2013, 12:18:00 PM »

Under the Illinois rules, in order to be licensed an ADW provider must have a contract with a racetrack. The percentages are in those contracts. Otherwise it's just the regular simul percentage depending on where the money is entering the pools.

I think what you're talking about there is for bets that originate in Illinois, right? And in our case, pretty much only on bets on Illinois races that originate in Illinois?

Bets that come in on Illinois from somewhere else via ADW only pay the simulcast fee the track and horsemen negotiated with that entity, and bets that Illinois residents might make on out-of-state tracks via ADW pay diddly, except maybe in tax to the State?

It's all confusing, but that's my understanding. And I think I saw somewhere, either here or maybe at the ITHA site, that the crappy % Illinois horsemen see of ADW full card bets was part of the issue over the renewal of the law. (Churchill/Twin Spires wants to suck out all the OTB and ITW money and run, while the Illinois horsemen feel they should be getting a better deal from the Illinois licensed ADW's on Illinois wagers.)
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« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2013, 12:31:17 PM »

The 6-month extension was of the current law, to keep negotiations separate from slots, etc.
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« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2013, 02:42:28 PM »

The 6-month extension was of the current law, to keep negotiations separate from slots, etc.


And that 6 months was what AP thinks was worth $80 million?

I know there were two or three bills floating around.
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