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Author Topic: Who do you think was the best derby horse of the 2000's?  (Read 1395 times)
journalstuff
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« on: February 19, 2013, 12:59:31 PM »

2009    Mine That Bird    Calvin Borel    Bennie L. Woolley, Jr.    Double Eagle Ranch et al.    2:02.66    I
2008    Big Brown    Kent Desormeaux    Richard E. Dutrow, Jr.    IEAH Stables / P. Pompa    2:01.82    I
2007    Street Sense    Calvin Borel    Carl Nafzger    James B. Tafel    2:02.17    I
2006    Barbaro    Edgar Prado    Michael R. Matz    Lael Stables    2:01.36    I
2005    Giacomo    Mike E. Smith    John Shirreffs    Jerry & Ann Moss    2:02.75    I
2004    Smarty Jones    Stewart Elliott    John Servis    Someday Farm    2:04.06    I
2003    Funny Cide    Jose Santos    Barclay Tagg    Sackatoga Stable    2:01.19    I
2002    War Emblem    Victor Espinoza    Bob Baffert    Thoroughbred Corp.    2:01.13    I
2001    Monarchos    Jorge F. Chavez    John T. Ward, Jr.    John C. Oxley    1:59.97    I
2000    Fusaichi Pegasus    Kent Desormeaux    Neil Drysdale    Fusao Sekiguchi    2:01.00    I
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bnlong
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« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2013, 01:28:26 PM »

That's Easy Street Sense
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TheRedMile
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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2013, 01:54:52 PM »

POINT GIVEN
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2013, 02:00:47 PM »

If by "the 2000's", you mean the first decade of the 21st century, you need to drop the entry for 2000 (Fu Peg), and add the 2010 winner, Super Saver.

This is because, strictly speaking, there was no "Year Zero" in the Anno Domini calendar system that is conventionally used to number the Gregorian calendar that we all use today (unless you ascribe to one of the Chinese or Hindu or Buddhist calendars, in which case, scram, you dang weirdo!  Grin).

That means the first decade A.D. consisted of the years A.D. 1 through A.D. 10, inclusive; carried forward, that means the first decade of the 21st century consisted of the years A.D. 2001 through A.D. 2010.

(FYI, if you decide to use this one, I get 10% commission on all bar bets. $US only please.) 
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Earl Sande
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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2013, 02:44:51 PM »

Smarty Jones, without a doubt. Answered the call for all the Triple Crown races and damn near won the Belmont.
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childewood
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« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2013, 03:19:20 PM »

Which Derby???
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bigdog32
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« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2013, 04:10:01 PM »

barbaro
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SandyLoam
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« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2013, 05:03:46 PM »

If you're talking about best horse in the Kentucky Derby, it's Monarchos. Although Big Brown has a very nice turn of foot in his Derby. If you're talking about the best career horse who also won the Derby, the edge has to go to Street Sense. Although Roy Rogers would have given Smarty Jones a better ride in the Belmont, and he was dead by then.
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mottoman
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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2013, 05:22:29 PM »

The two worst by far are Giacamo and Mine That Bird!
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Wink Martingale
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« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2013, 05:42:53 PM »

Bold Forbes
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"Some people like Jews and some do not; but no thoughtful man can doubt the fact that they are beyond all question the most formidable and the most remarkable race which has ever appeared in the world."

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Mr_Ed
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« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2013, 06:01:26 PM »

The two worst by far are Giacamo and Mine That Bird!

I agree, but to watch Mine That Bird come from that far back was amazing.

I agree cause it don't say much about the others since the horse, I believe, never won another race.
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Earl Sande
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« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2013, 06:13:17 PM »

Although Roy Rogers would have given Smarty Jones a better ride in the Belmont, and he was dead by then.

BS, there was absolutely nothing wrong with Elliot's ride in the Belmont.
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Pal B
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« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2013, 07:23:56 PM »

Afleet Alex
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STIVO
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« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2013, 12:06:24 AM »

The best horse on that list was SMARTY JONES. He was absolutely a freak of nature. His run towards the Triple Crown, undefeated, was just awesome. He donned the Cover of Sports Illustrated. I wish he would have run as a 4YO.

Smarty Jones PP's: http://www1.drf.com/tc/kentuckyderby/2004/pps/2004derbywinner.pdf

As far as the best 3YO of the decade, Easily POINT GIVEN. He was the most powerful and impressive Colt of the entire lot. He was physically a giant specimen. Gary Stevens has admitted that his ride in the derby was the worst of his career. He chased the fastest pace in Derby history fanned 5-wide. They went 44 and change for the half and 109 for the first 6 panels. He should have won the Triple Crown and was a much better animal than Monarchos. He won 6 G-1 races. PG's Belmont was epic.

Point Given PP's: http://www1.drf.com/tc/preakness/2004/pps/pointgiven.pdf

2001 Belmont: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtmWIWTh9bw
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STIVO
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« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2013, 12:18:35 AM »

This is Point Given in the BC Juvenile. Listen to what Gary Stevens says after the race.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXy8Hn3cNSo&list=PLC305D4B426854064
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vegas jay
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« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2013, 06:58:59 AM »

Mine That Bird may have been the worst of the bunch (either he or Giacomo), but I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for him.

I loved Pioneerof The Nile that day and bet $200 to win on him at 6-1. As a last-minute afterthought, I made a $2 exacta backwheel saver, playing every horse on top to Pioneer to run second. When Pioneer won the tight place photo, well behind Mine That Bird, the $2 exacta paid $2,074.

A nice memory, to be sure.....
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STIVO
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« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2013, 09:42:05 AM »

I also had POTN on top that day as well. It's funny how we can always remember our derby horses that we bet. Here is a list of all the horses I bet in the Derby's for the 2000's to present:

2012 - Daddy Nose Best
2011 - Animal Kingdom
2010 - Lookin at Lucky
2009 - Pioneer of the Nile
2008 - Denis of Cork
2007 - Curlin
2006 - Sweetnothernsaint
2005 - Don't Get Mad
2004 - Lion Heart
2003 - Ten Most Wanted
2002 - War Emblem
2001 - Dollar Bill
2000 - Fusaichi Pegasus

Winners in BOLD

On the board in Italics

Looking back, I did pretty damn well. My greatest and worst days have come in the last two. I made a killing two years ago with AK. Last year was my biggest disappointment with DNB.
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SandyLoam
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« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2013, 08:11:48 PM »

BS, there was absolutely nothing wrong with Elliot's ride in the Belmont.
Please support your statement. Thank you.
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Mary Ann
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« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2013, 09:17:33 PM »

Regarding Elliott's ride in the Belmont, I wrote the following in another topic in December:

"I guess we will never know for sure what Bailey's intentions were but here's the controversy:

"The controversy centers on the early challenges to Smarty Jones in the 1 1/2-mile Belmont. With more than a mile to go in the marathon race, Bailey, aboard Eddington, and jockey Alex Solis, atop Rock Hard Ten, appeared to have prematurely moved their horses in an attempt to double up on Smarty Jones.

As soon as Purge started to fade, Rock Hard Ten and Eddington pushed to engage Smarty Jones rather than stalk him until the stretch run, putting pressure on Smarty and compromising their mounts in that pursuit.

Steve Waxman of Versailles, Ky., has been a racing fan for 45 years. The thoroughbred owner and breeder wrote that Bailey's ride was one of "not trying to win." He wrote that Elliott and Edgar Prado, who rode winner Birdstone, were probably the only two riders in the race riding to win. He concluded his letter by suggesting Bailey apologize to the Smarty Jones team.

Bill Brown of Philadelphia wrote that he watched the video replay of the Belmont Stakes five times, and is firmly convinced that Bailey and Solis had extremely "questionable rides."

Watching Bailey attempt to move five-wide aboard Eddington with a mile to go, he wrote, "left me incredulous ... indicating to me that (Bailey) was more interested in trying to get Smarty Jones beaten than to win the race himself."

Peter Thompson of Wellington, Fla., asked why Bailey would not sit behind the contested pace, but instead eliminated any chance his horse had of winning by pressing early.

And Mike Iammarino of Surprise, Ariz., wrote, "I have been a jockey for 17 years and have always had a lot of respect for Jerry Bailey. His ride in the Belmont Stakes, however, on a live contender, was a disgrace to horse racing. Bailey sacrificed himself only to beat Smarty Jones and jockey Stewart Elliott."

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2004/jun/14/columnist-ralph-siraco-smarty-jones-fans-cry-foul-/
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journalstuff
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« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2013, 10:35:07 PM »

John Velazquez the jockey of Purge I thought even got involved for a brief second but Purge seemed to not have been interested in doing what Alex Solis and Jerry Bailey had in mind. I think those 3 riders had a hidden agenda planned. I think Pat Day on Royal Assault the 3rd place finisher in there also wanted to win too like Edgar Prado and Stewart Elliott.
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Mary Ann
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« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2013, 11:16:47 PM »

g3tPWNed 24 had replied to my December post with the following:

"altho i was a fan of baileys mary ann youre correct i do recall hearing alotta sh1t bout him regarding the race, he was said to have wanted the mount on SJ prior to the TC( lol who wouldnt?) and maybe some of the top circuit guys didnt like the idea of a older guy comin from a lower mid level circuit(phillys money wasnt even half of what it is now) and doing something none of them has been able to accomplish which was win the TC!"
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Earl Sande
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« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2013, 09:48:40 AM »

Please support your statement. Thank you.

Well, I watched the race. Looked like he made a winning move. Got beat at the very end by a fresh route horse. The armchair jockeys who thought Elliot moved too soon are wrong.
If Smarty staggers home and gets beat two lengths then maybe he did move to soon. But to be beaten narrowly shows that the ride was fine.
But what do I know, I've only seen 20,000 races.
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