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Author Topic: Why the AP Stall application fuss?  (Read 1912 times)
beobob
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« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2013, 12:38:33 PM »

Another thought that occurs to me is that if we are counting on slots to solve all our problems we might be mistaken.  We have incredible leverage now because AP is dependent (not completely but to a large extent) on our horses and horsemen are fairly unified.  If slots on site are introduced and CDI becomes less dependent on racing, or even worse if racing is viewed as a drag on earnings, what will our leverage be?  How many of our fellow owners and trainers will be willing to boycott MSW 60K races? Let's work out a way to coexist now, it's not going to be easier later.
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sodgod
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« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2013, 01:08:01 PM »

Table Gamer,

Mr. D's horses are trained by Block & Goldfine both of whom are trainer/directors w/ the ITHA.  Not sure if that's a conflict of interest or not?

Beobob,

I agree w/ many of your points.  AP is looking like the big cheap bullies that they are again this year.  They are starting to make Haw. look top notch for buying rubber gloves and gallons of bleach to combat the virus.

That being said I have a question for the trainers here.  Can you tell me another industry where you can operate your business and are allowed to use a facility rent free and w/ no utility expense?  Why could not some of this overhead be included in your day rate?  Perhaps this additional expense would be too much $ for those of you who are the breeders, owners and trainer of the horses ect.  Just looking for info. about this.

Thanks,
Sod
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Scav
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« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2013, 01:46:46 PM »

Table Gamer,

Mr. D's horses are trained by Block & Goldfine both of whom are trainer/directors w/ the ITHA.  Not sure if that's a conflict of interest or not?

Beobob,

I agree w/ many of your points.  AP is looking like the big cheap bullies that they are again this year.  They are starting to make Haw. look top notch for buying rubber gloves and gallons of bleach to combat the virus.

That being said I have a question for the trainers here.  Can you tell me another industry where you can operate your business and are allowed to use a facility rent free and w/ no utility expense?  Why could not some of this overhead be included in your day rate?  Perhaps this additional expense would be too much $ for those of you who are the breeders, owners and trainer of the horses ect.  Just looking for info. about this.

Thanks,
Sod

While I understand what you are saying and you have an extremely valid point, I preach the same thing every year to almost everyone.

Without the horses, the track and trainers have nothing.
Without the track, the horses and owners have nothing.
Without the trainers, the track and horses have nothing.

Not one entity is more important then the other, and without one of those three, you have nothing. Unfortauntely past negiotations are basically setting the new ones up for failure because people can't just let stuff die. 
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beobob
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« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2013, 02:47:56 PM »

While I understand what you are saying and you have an extremely valid point, I preach the same thing every year to almost everyone.

Without the horses, the track and trainers have nothing.
Without the track, the horses and owners have nothing.
Without the trainers, the track and horses have nothing.

Not one entity is more important then the other, and without one of those three, you have nothing. Unfortauntely past negiotations are basically setting the new ones up for failure because people can't just let stuff die. 


  thumbs up

Everyone in the boat has to paddle the same direction, or you stay in the same place.
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farquarks
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« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2013, 03:02:34 PM »

............. I say positive things about AP, and because that is so rare on this board, I can see how it might seem I was a company shill.  On this stall issue, I think AP is dead wrong to sneak it in late in the game. .............. If Illinois racing is to survive, we are going to have to do many things differently than we have in the past. I think it is possible to have a preference without hating the other................If we have gotten to the place where neither side is willing to throw the other side a bone and every change requested is deemed unreasonable, we are dead.

Very well said Beobob. Much like our politicians and just about everything else in our society there seems to be no middle ground nowadays. I love going to AP - it's by far my favorite track, but I question their motives/agendas at times under the Corporate umbrella of CDI. Mr D behaves much like many CEO's and/or wealthy individuals - they have to win at everything, all of the time, even at the cost of a more beneficial big picture. The various factions within the industry are in a very poor position to successfully compete with  the more powerful IL Casinos for legislative clout.
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Table Gambler
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« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2013, 03:03:57 PM »

Table Gamer,

Mr. D's horses are trained by Block & Goldfine both of whom are trainer/directors w/ the ITHA.  Not sure if that's a conflict of interest or not?

Beobob,

I agree w/ many of your points.  AP is looking like the big cheap bullies that they are again this year.  They are starting to make Haw. look top notch for buying rubber gloves and gallons of bleach to combat the virus.

That being said I have a question for the trainers here.  Can you tell me another industry where you can operate your business and are allowed to use a facility rent free and w/ no utility expense?  Why could not some of this overhead be included in your day rate?  Perhaps this additional expense would be too much $ for those of you who are the breeders, owners and trainer of the horses ect.  Just looking for info. about this.

Thanks,
Sod
Thanks Sod, I am aware of Block and Goldfine training Mr.D's Stock. I was just curious about what runners he has sent out to Saratoga to run according to HBT.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2013, 03:06:27 PM »

Sounds like a rule preventing extortion by a racing secretary to me.

And the difference between extortion and this proposed new rule (without any firm guidelines on how, why, who, when) is ...... ?
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2013, 03:09:31 PM »

What I see as potentially dangerous is if we allow whatever our bias or preference is to cloud our judgement about what is best for Illinois racing.  If what is best for the future viability of Illinois racing is what is also good for AP or bad for HAW, must it be opposed?

And who gets to decide that, based on what criteria?
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
beobob
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« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2013, 04:23:42 PM »

And who gets to decide that, based on what criteria?

That answer is obvious, you and I.

I suppose if that's not acceptable to most there must be some way to make that determination.  I would imagine that if we were to determine where we wanted to be 5 or 10 years from now along with what we can forecast about market trends(with a dose of realism, 6 days a week 12 months a year might night be realistic) and then mapped out what seems to be the best way to get there might be a way to go.  Anticipate the future instead of reacting to the present.
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jgp
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« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2013, 04:45:57 PM »

Without the bettors you have nothing, and the bettors are leaving.  If Illinois tracks do get slots would the Department of AG. still give money to the track.  As a taxpayer in this broke state, why should tax dollars go to supplement racing? 
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2013, 06:19:35 PM »

Without the bettors you have nothing, and the bettors are leaving.

What explains the tank of handle in all the other states where presumably they're not as AFU as Illinois?
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
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