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Author Topic: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF PEOPLE WHO..........  (Read 1474 times)
burton
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« on: February 09, 2013, 05:15:43 PM »

THINK HARNESS RACING IS FIXED.

THINK THE MAJORITY OF THE TRAINERS ARE CHEMISTS


THAT OPEN BETTING WINDOWS EXIST


AND STILL KEEP BETTING ON THE HARNESS RACES!!!!!!!!!

WHAT EXPLAINS SUCH BEHAVIOR??
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« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2013, 05:18:11 PM »

 head shake

« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 05:24:47 PM by LUCPARK » Report to moderator   Logged
burton
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« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2013, 05:26:07 PM »

head shake


GOOD POINTS.
MAYBE THOSE THAT THINK THAT WAY SHOULD CONTACT THE GOVERNMENT AND TRY TO GET AN ANTI-TRUST SUIT GOING AGAINST THE BURKES.
LOL!!!!!!!!
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« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2013, 05:28:42 PM »

GOOD POINTS.
MAYBE THOSE THAT THINK THAT WAY SHOULD CONTACT THE GOVERNMENT AND TRY TO GET AN ANTI-TRUST SUIT GOING AGAINST THE BURKES.
LOL!!!!!!!!


I TOOK IT DOWN BURTON,,SORRY,,

DONT FEEL LIKE ARGUIN WITH SAME,,MEANING LESS PEOPLE,,

MEANINGLESS TO ME,,LIKE ,,


LINT ON MY SHIRT,,


I LUV HARNESS HORSES AND RACING,,I invest  IN IT,,
FOR  DA LOVE OF THE HORSES...period

END OF STORY,,ALL  I NEED TO SAY...
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 05:42:41 PM by LUCPARK » Report to moderator   Logged
burton
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« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2013, 06:17:53 PM »


I TOOK IT DOWN BURTON,,SORRY,,

DONT FEEL LIKE ARGUIN WITH SAME,,MEANING LESS PEOPLE,,

MEANINGLESS TO ME,,LIKE ,,


LINT ON MY SHIRT,,


I LUV HARNESS HORSES AND RACING,,I invest  IN IT,,
FOR  DA LOVE OF THE HORSES...period

END OF STORY,,ALL  I NEED TO SAY...
I understand and agree with you.
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« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2013, 06:24:46 PM »

I TINK THEY EDDER HAVE A  screw LOOSE,,,,OR THEY HAVE A MIZERABLE LIFE WIT NUTTING BETTOR TO DUE,,,  screwy
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Illinois sucks
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« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2013, 06:30:02 PM »

I agree that harness would be better without the chemist.  I love horses just as much as the next.  Had plenty of riding in my younger days with my best friend who had horses.  However since being a owner and hearing about EPO, it makes me sick that people use it.  Thing is if your not in the industry, as a individual you are blinded by what happens to some of these animals.  I know not all stories I have heard either on forums, people in the business, or in general aren't true.  As far as fixed, it is hard to think every race is fixed, or even a few per a card.  But you go to a OTB and boy some of the disgruntled gamblers cry and moan every time they lose and it's this jockey or driver is fixing.  Or every trainer is cheating.  I tend to think that is not the case.
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« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2013, 06:44:04 PM »

JIMMY YOU HAVE OWNED HORSES FOR LAST 10YRS,,OR LONGER ,,U KNOW ITS NOT DA CASE


ITS DA SAME GUYS WHO,,CRY FOUL,,,

THAT USAULLY GO HOME LOSIN FROM DA OTB,,,EVERY NITE...




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Total Truth
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« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2013, 06:52:27 PM »

I am aware that there are some negative things out there.  Some trainers aren't completely honest, some drivers don't give 100%, etc., etc.  but when it comes down to it, this is a hobby I enjoy and compare it to sausage...I don't want to see or know how they make it, i just want to enjoy it.

Some on here will say I'm just burrying my head in the sand, but if I saw them make the sausage, I would probably never eat it again.   I still love this game, and for my dollar there is nothing I'd rather do then play a Saturday night card at the Big M....I'm not becoming a vegetarian any time soon.
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the exactorman
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« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2013, 06:56:56 PM »

I am aware that there are some negative things out there.  Some trainers aren't completely honest, some drivers don't give 100%, etc., etc.  but when it comes down to it, this is a hobby I enjoy and compare it to sausage...I don't want to see or know how they make it, i just want to enjoy it.

Some on here will say I'm just burrying my head in the sand, but if I saw them make the sausage, I would probably never eat it again.   I still love this game, and for my dollar there is nothing I'd rather do then play a Saturday night card at the Big M....I'm not becoming a vegetarian any time soon.

Total Truth, Great post! Pick winners tonight-win money trophy trophy trophy trophy
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« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2013, 06:58:34 PM »

  How do fix a race with marcus m. Kyle wilfong and husted in it . screwy     there are guys who setup horses but NO.Fixed Races here.

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Illinois sucks
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« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2013, 06:59:09 PM »

Going into my fifth year owning.  Hope I make it to ten but Rocco it is getting so expensive.  Just added my bills for the year YUCK.  Everyone gets paid in this business and for a owner who just buys babies, because that is what I want to do, it is costly.  But these guys at the OTB *** and whine every time they rip that ticket.  TT there are a lot of honest trainers, then there are some that look for a small edge, then you have the scum bags that the industry doesn't need.
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« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2013, 07:05:11 PM »

YEAH NO CHEATS IN THIS GAME...JUST FROM THIS WEEK NOT TO MENTION ALL THE BROKE PEOPLE WHO BOUNCE CHECKS, FAIL TO PAY OTHER FINES, HAVE NO WORKERS COMPENSATION, ETC...PLUS ALL THE WHIPPING VIOLATIONS ETC...FULL OF HONEST PEOPLE, YOUR RIGHT.

AND THESE ARE JUST THE ONES THEY CAN CATCH, MANY INCLUDING THE BURKES ARE SKIRTING THE RULES AND HAVEN'T BEEN CAUGHT...

BURTON, RICHARD BLOOMINGDALE, IL YOB 1963
BmlP on 12/8/2012 INDEFINITE SUSPENSION(IND) AS OF
2/1/2013
POSITIVE TEST- POST RACE
An analysis of the test sample obtained from LIL ROY following its first
place finish inthe fourth race on December 8, 2012 at Balmoral Parck
revealed the presence of Phenylbutazone. Pursuant to IRB rule 603.60 A 3
B 1, the purse money won is hereby ordered forfeited and redistributed.
Trainer is hereby assessed a $1000 civil penalty (first offense).
Status as of 2/1/2013 - Subsequent Ruling - Trainer Richard


COLEMAN, NEIL E SHELBYVILLE, IN YOB 1956
BmlP on 12/22/2012 FINED: $1,000
HORSE DISQUALIFIED - PLACED 10,
PURSE REDISTRIBUTION
POSITIVE TEST- POST RACE
An analysis of the test sample obtained from PARK LANE SUE following its first place finish in the fourth race on December 22, 2012 at Balmoral Park revealed the presence of phenylbutazone. Pursuant to IRB rule 603.60 A 3 B 1, the purse money won by PARK LANE SUE is hereby ordered forfeited and redistributed among the remaining horses.


CROSS, STEVEN J
MACEDONIA, OH
YOB 1955
Nfld on 1/1/2013
FINED: $250
POSITIVE TEST- POST RACE
Blood sample #792208 collected at Northfield Park on 1/1/13 from the horse Big On Luk was found to contain flunixin at a concentration of 43 nanograms per milliliter of plasma. This exceeds the threshold of 20 nanograms per milliliter adopted by the OSRC. O.S.R.C.-3769-18-01(B)(1)(a) 18-02 18-99


FAUROT, CLAYTON JR
WASHINGTON, PA
YOB 1965
Mea on 12/4/2012
FINED: $500 FULL - 15 DAYS, 2/15/2013 THRU 3/1/2013 HORSE DISQUALIFIED - PLACED 8, PURSE REDISTRIBUTION
POSITIVE TEST- POST RACE
PA Code Title 58 - (183.352)(183.355)(183.357) Mr. Faurot, Jr. was the trainer of the horse THEY CALL ME MOON for the 1st race on December 4, 2012 at The Meadows. Post race samples were collected from THEY CALL ME MOON. The samples were tested and found to contain Propoxyphene. As the trainer, Mr. Faurot, Jr. is responsible for the positive test. Appeals are due within ten days of ruling. Fine is due by February 24, 2013. During the time of the suspension, Mr. Faurot, Jr. is denied access and use of all areas under the jurisdiction of the PHRC. During the time of the suspension, all horses owned &/or trained by Mr. Faurot, Jr. shall also be suspended unless transferred to an owner/trainer in good standing. All of Mr. Faurot, Jr.`s owner/trainer transfers must be approved by the Judges at the Meadows or the PHRC.
Mea on 12/5/2012
FINED: $500 FULL - 15 DAYS, 3/2/2013 THRU 3/16/2013 HORSE DISQUALIFIED - PLACED 9, PURSE REDISTRIBUTION
POSITIVE TEST- POST RACE
PA Code Title 58 - (183.352)(183.355)(183.357) Mr. Faurot, Jr. was the trainer of the horse MYSTERY ISLAND for the 5th race on December 5, 2012 at The Meadows. Post race samples were collected from MYSTERY ISLAND. The samples were tested and found to contain Propoxyphene. As the trainer, Mr. Faurot, Jr. is responsible for the positive test. Appeals are due within ten days of ruling. Fine is due by February 24, 2013. During the time of the suspension, Mr. Faurot, Jr. is denied access and use of all areas under the jurisdiction of the PHRC. During the time of the suspension, all horses owned &/or trained by Mr. Faurot, Jr. shall also be suspended unless transferred to an owner/trainer in good standing. All of Mr. Faurot, Jr.`s owner/trainer transfers must be approved by the Judges at the Meadows or the PHRC.


WILLEY, KEITH E
HERALD, CA
YOB 1934
CalX on 12/8/2012
FINED: $500
MEDICATION PROCEDURE VIOLATION
TRAINER KEITH WILLEY, WHO STARTED “KD AMAZIN SPIRIT” IN THE THIRD RACE ON DECEMBER 8, 2012, IS FINED FIVE HUNDRED ($500.00)* DOLLARS FOR VIOLATION OF CALIFORNIA HORSE RACING BOARD RULE #1843 (A) (D) (MEDICATIONS, DRUGS AND OTHER SUBSTANCES – PROHIBITIVE DRUG SUBSTANCE – GUAIFENESIN) PURSUANT TO CALIFORNIA HORSE RACING BOARD RULE #1887 (A) (TRAINER TO INSURE CONDITION OF HORSE).



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Juicejunkies
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« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2013, 07:07:45 PM »

THEN YOU HAVE DRIVERS WHO GIVE HOLES, KICK HORSES, ETC ETC...IT GOES ON AND ON...

SURE I LOVE RACING AND AM A GAMBLER, BUT THIS GAME IS SO FAR GONE ANYONE WHO THINKS OTHERWISE IS SIMPLY IN THE LOW IQ BRACKET.
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« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2013, 01:08:12 AM »

WoW.  A bute positive !! censor
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Sea Biscuit
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« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2013, 02:02:38 AM »

YEAH NO CHEATS IN THIS GAME...JUST FROM THIS WEEK NOT TO MENTION ALL THE BROKE PEOPLE WHO BOUNCE CHECKS, FAIL TO PAY OTHER FINES, HAVE NO WORKERS COMPENSATION, ETC...PLUS ALL THE WHIPPING VIOLATIONS ETC...FULL OF HONEST PEOPLE, YOUR RIGHT.

AND THESE ARE JUST THE ONES THEY CAN CATCH, MANY INCLUDING THE BURKES ARE SKIRTING THE RULES AND HAVEN'T BEEN CAUGHT...

BURTON, RICHARD BLOOMINGDALE, IL YOB 1963
BmlP on 12/8/2012 INDEFINITE SUSPENSION(IND) AS OF
2/1/2013
POSITIVE TEST- POST RACE
An analysis of the test sample obtained from LIL ROY following its first
place finish inthe fourth race on December 8, 2012 at Balmoral Parck
revealed the presence of Phenylbutazone. Pursuant to IRB rule 603.60 A 3
B 1, the purse money won is hereby ordered forfeited and redistributed.
Trainer is hereby assessed a $1000 civil penalty (first offense).
Status as of 2/1/2013 - Subsequent Ruling - Trainer Richard


COLEMAN, NEIL E SHELBYVILLE, IN YOB 1956
BmlP on 12/22/2012 FINED: $1,000
HORSE DISQUALIFIED - PLACED 10,
PURSE REDISTRIBUTION
POSITIVE TEST- POST RACE
An analysis of the test sample obtained from PARK LANE SUE following its first place finish in the fourth race on December 22, 2012 at Balmoral Park revealed the presence of phenylbutazone. Pursuant to IRB rule 603.60 A 3 B 1, the purse money won by PARK LANE SUE is hereby ordered forfeited and redistributed among the remaining horses.


CROSS, STEVEN J
MACEDONIA, OH
YOB 1955
Nfld on 1/1/2013
FINED: $250
POSITIVE TEST- POST RACE
Blood sample #792208 collected at Northfield Park on 1/1/13 from the horse Big On Luk was found to contain flunixin at a concentration of 43 nanograms per milliliter of plasma. This exceeds the threshold of 20 nanograms per milliliter adopted by the OSRC. O.S.R.C.-3769-18-01(B)(1)(a) 18-02 18-99


FAUROT, CLAYTON JR
WASHINGTON, PA
YOB 1965
Mea on 12/4/2012
FINED: $500 FULL - 15 DAYS, 2/15/2013 THRU 3/1/2013 HORSE DISQUALIFIED - PLACED 8, PURSE REDISTRIBUTION
POSITIVE TEST- POST RACE
PA Code Title 58 - (183.352)(183.355)(183.357) Mr. Faurot, Jr. was the trainer of the horse THEY CALL ME MOON for the 1st race on December 4, 2012 at The Meadows. Post race samples were collected from THEY CALL ME MOON. The samples were tested and found to contain Propoxyphene. As the trainer, Mr. Faurot, Jr. is responsible for the positive test. Appeals are due within ten days of ruling. Fine is due by February 24, 2013. During the time of the suspension, Mr. Faurot, Jr. is denied access and use of all areas under the jurisdiction of the PHRC. During the time of the suspension, all horses owned &/or trained by Mr. Faurot, Jr. shall also be suspended unless transferred to an owner/trainer in good standing. All of Mr. Faurot, Jr.`s owner/trainer transfers must be approved by the Judges at the Meadows or the PHRC.
Mea on 12/5/2012
FINED: $500 FULL - 15 DAYS, 3/2/2013 THRU 3/16/2013 HORSE DISQUALIFIED - PLACED 9, PURSE REDISTRIBUTION
POSITIVE TEST- POST RACE
PA Code Title 58 - (183.352)(183.355)(183.357) Mr. Faurot, Jr. was the trainer of the horse MYSTERY ISLAND for the 5th race on December 5, 2012 at The Meadows. Post race samples were collected from MYSTERY ISLAND. The samples were tested and found to contain Propoxyphene. As the trainer, Mr. Faurot, Jr. is responsible for the positive test. Appeals are due within ten days of ruling. Fine is due by February 24, 2013. During the time of the suspension, Mr. Faurot, Jr. is denied access and use of all areas under the jurisdiction of the PHRC. During the time of the suspension, all horses owned &/or trained by Mr. Faurot, Jr. shall also be suspended unless transferred to an owner/trainer in good standing. All of Mr. Faurot, Jr.`s owner/trainer transfers must be approved by the Judges at the Meadows or the PHRC.


WILLEY, KEITH E
HERALD, CA
YOB 1934
CalX on 12/8/2012
FINED: $500
MEDICATION PROCEDURE VIOLATION
TRAINER KEITH WILLEY, WHO STARTED “KD AMAZIN SPIRIT” IN THE THIRD RACE ON DECEMBER 8, 2012, IS FINED FIVE HUNDRED ($500.00)* DOLLARS FOR VIOLATION OF CALIFORNIA HORSE RACING BOARD RULE #1843 (A) (D) (MEDICATIONS, DRUGS AND OTHER SUBSTANCES – PROHIBITIVE DRUG SUBSTANCE – GUAIFENESIN) PURSUANT TO CALIFORNIA HORSE RACING BOARD RULE #1887 (A) (TRAINER TO INSURE CONDITION OF HORSE).


Nobody said that there won't be any cheats in this game. In a game where money changes hands there will always be crooks and cheat lurking around,You listed about five cheating trainers. Now list all those races and trainers which were run fair and square where no drugs were involved.

This list should take you about a month to complete. Good luck with it.
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Juicejunkies
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« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2013, 06:05:27 AM »

WoW.  A bute positive !! censor

Unfortunately ira the system only catches the little guys who cheat a little to try and compete.   Look at ledford busted yet never got a hot test.

Don't say wow, say wtf go get the Burkes, the allards, the Coleman's, afruntis, the guys who have horses with no form yet can jog in 150 over a tiring muddy track and do so looking like a quarter horse.

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IRA
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« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2013, 09:32:59 AM »

You cant catch what there is no test for. dude   how bout.  Assman, baffort,  dutrow,  a never. Ending list !!     Racing. Has always been this way.  Im sayin . There is no group of 6 guys working together to fix races. In ill. Thats race fixing !!   Thats not going on.
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diamond
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« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2013, 09:54:27 AM »

You cant catch what there is no test for. dude   how bout.  Assman, baffort,  dutrow,  a never. Ending list !!     Racing. Has always been this way.  Im sayin . There is no group of 6 guys working together to fix races. In ill. Thats race fixing !!   Thats not going on.
when u say a group of 6 guys u mean in the bike? because i was there on the friday night in june when rodney mills pulled his horse bizz off stride at 4-5* from 8 hole and jeff tilden pulled his horse off stride as second choice at 3-1 from 1 hole. there was a group of individuals working the casinos in vegas leaving out both of these two horses, but using everyone else. they were going from casino to casino. then the casinos called each other and got suspicious, so then they called maywood. this was before the race even started. then bombers came in the gimmicks and it paid a little of nothing. clearly, several people were in on it. there were people at maywood and people in vegas who were in on it + two drivers who conspired with a trainer and owner. that's quite a few people in my opinion. what is the boy scout up to these days? same deal with ron marsh with mike's cadet. several people making bets at maywood, yet the jig was up before the race even started. all those people scattered like mice and never cashed those tickets. they knew they had been caught as the word spread quickly. screwy
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« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2013, 10:10:09 AM »

 Here is something else to consider for the people that say Affrunti is honest. she was with ron marsh and even had a child with him. she was with him while he had cocaine addiction and was being investigated for race fixing. ron's father got in trouble on the east coast for race fixing. it all filters down. the company you keep speaks volumes of how you are. watch the interview JD had by the winners circle with Affrunti. if i had a nickel for everytime she fidgeted around i would be a millionaire. she can't control herself. she is so herky jerky with her body it is a sign that she has a serious medical problem or is on something. she looks like she has ants in her pants.
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« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2013, 10:19:41 AM »

Here is something else to consider for the people that say Affrunti is honest. she was with ron marsh and even had a child with him. she was with him while he had cocaine addiction and was being investigated for race fixing. ron's father got in trouble on the east coast for race fixing. it all filters down. the company you keep speaks volumes of how you are. watch the interview JD had by the winners circle with Affrunti. if i had a nickel for everytime she fidgeted around i would be a millionaire. she can't control herself. she is so herky jerky with her body it is a sign that she has a serious medical problem or is on something. she looks like she has ants in her pants.
"ants in her pants"  Got ants in my pants  and I just want to dance. Singer and song please Huh
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« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2013, 10:54:24 AM »

when u say a group of 6 guys u mean in the bike? because i was there on the friday night in june when rodney mills pulled his horse bizz off stride at 4-5* from 8 hole and jeff tilden pulled his horse off stride as second choice at 3-1 from 1 hole. there was a group of individuals working the casinos in vegas leaving out both of these two horses, but using everyone else. they were going from casino to casino. then the casinos called each other and got suspicious, so then they called maywood. this was before the race even started. then bombers came in the gimmicks and it paid a little of nothing. clearly, several people were in on it. there were people at maywood and people in vegas who were in on it + two drivers who conspired with a trainer and owner. that's quite a few people in my opinion. what is the boy scout up to these days? same deal with ron marsh with mike's cadet. several people making bets at maywood, yet the jig was up before the race even started. all those people scattered like mice and never cashed those tickets. they knew they had been caught as the word spread quickly. screwy

When Forest Gerry Jr. and his crew were fixing supers in New York, in the early ‘70s, the fact that they had from 10-25K to invest in each of those races stood as their biggest advantage. Typical intel about a horse could be used to eliminate him from consideration. If that wasn’t the case two trainer/ driver units would be persuaded to declare their horses dead in the race for $1,000 each. They didn’t know anything about the other dead horse etc.

There would generally be two dead horses and one live horse (probably finish first or second). They involved as few people as possible. When the tickets are three bucks each a six-horse box is $1,080 as opposed to $5,080 for an eight-horse box. Gerry fashioned himself a superior handicapper so that skill was employed to weight the betting with the live horse in mind, as opposed to betting a clean six-horse box. As a result some races they did better than others but over the long haul the odds were stacked in their favor to such a degree that they did very well.
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« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2013, 11:25:27 AM »

When Forest Gerry Jr. and his crew were fixing supers in New York, in the early ‘70s, the fact that they had from 10-25K to invest in each of those races stood as their biggest advantage. Typical intel about a horse could be used to eliminate him from consideration. If that wasn’t the case two trainer/ driver units would be persuaded to declare their horses dead in the race for $1,000 each. They didn’t know anything about the other dead horse etc.

There would generally be two dead horses and one live horse (probably finish first or second). They involved as few people as possible. When the tickets are three bucks each a six-horse box is $1,080 as opposed to $5,080 for an eight-horse box. Gerry fashioned himself a superior handicapper so that skill was employed to weight the betting with the live horse in mind, as opposed to betting a clean six-horse box. As a result some races they did better than others but over the long haul the odds were stacked in their favor to such a degree that they did very well.


Careful, this game is clean, those guys just bet really smart.
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« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2013, 11:31:55 AM »

The handle was bigger years ago. Pools are small in ill. Not much to cutup.. many drivers are leaving ill. If they were making a score fixing races they would never leave
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« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2013, 11:35:16 AM »

Soon i see . Miller. Widger. Tetrick. Roberts.  Warren.  Sutton.    GONE. !! dunno           
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« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2013, 12:59:22 PM »

I agree that harness would be better without the chemist.  I love horses just as much as the next.  Had plenty of riding in my younger days with my best friend who had horses.  However since being a owner and hearing about EPO, it makes me sick that people use it.  Thing is if your not in the industry, as a individual you are blinded by what happens to some of these animals.  I know not all stories I have heard either on forums, people in the business, or in general aren't true.  As far as fixed, it is hard to think every race is fixed, or even a few per a card.  But you go to a OTB and boy some of the disgruntled gamblers cry and moan every time they lose and it's this jockey or driver is fixing.  Or every trainer is cheating.  I tend to think that is not the case.

I agree with u I S !
I can't stand to watch a full card any more.
I use to set and watch all types of racing by the hours.
With the catastrophic breakdowns in thoroughbreds I can't hardly even watch any more I'm so sickened and upset after seeing one go down
Even two year old in training sales I would watch all the film now I'm just so apposed to these sales I would love to see them stopped.
With the affect I have seen in drugs in racing and in harness racing also it is just heartbreaking to think for one minute that the products used are everything from Clorox bleach to cobra venom to cancer treatment drugs for humans to tiger balm!
I mean where is it going to end?HuhHuh

Pretty simple to figure who benefits from all the drugs!
The Pharmecutical Companies!
They are the biggest profiteer in Health Care and in the horse racing industry!
What a hell of a monopoly! They have both hands on both industry's throats and have the deepest pockets to stop any change.
This is why it is so important for Men like Mr G for all of us to support him.
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« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2013, 02:32:29 PM »

 thumbs up thumbs up
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burton
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« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2013, 02:41:17 PM »

THINK HARNESS RACING IS FIXED.

THINK THE MAJORITY OF THE TRAINERS ARE CHEMISTS


THAT OPEN BETTING WINDOWS EXIST


AND STILL KEEP BETTING ON THE HARNESS RACES!!!!!!!!!

WHAT EXPLAINS SUCH BEHAVIOR??

Let's get back on topic.
What do you think of the people described above?

Are they getting something most of us don't?

Are they idiots?

Do they hate money?

Do they handicap around the supposed cheater etc;

What about the open windows that they claim are all over North America with special betters getting this advatage?

Are they fools to keep betting on thsi game if they believe the points made above?
Or are they geniuses who sit at a computer watching the races from home and still able to spot the duggists, fixes and open windows?
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the exactorman
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« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2013, 03:31:15 PM »

When Forest Gerry Jr. and his crew were fixing supers in New York, in the early ‘70s, the fact that they had from 10-25K to invest in each of those races stood as their biggest advantage. Typical intel about a horse could be used to eliminate him from consideration. If that wasn’t the case two trainer/ driver units would be persuaded to declare their horses dead in the race for $1,000 each. They didn’t know anything about the other dead horse etc.

There would generally be two dead horses and one live horse (probably finish first or second). They involved as few people as possible. When the tickets are three bucks each a six-horse box is $1,080 as opposed to $5,080 for an eight-horse box. Gerry fashioned himself a superior handicapper so that skill was employed to weight the betting with the live horse in mind, as opposed to betting a clean six-horse box. As a result some races they did better than others but over the long haul the odds were stacked in their favor to such a degree that they did very well.


I vaguely remember the RR story....did they ever get convicted of anything?  Wasn't there also a scandal with that twin double bet or whatever it was?
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« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2013, 04:06:10 PM »

I vaguely remember the RR story....did they ever get convicted of anything?  Wasn't there also a scandal with that twin double bet or whatever it was?

Gerry and his buddy, Richard Perry, were each convicted of conspiring with harness divers to fix superfecta races, in Brooklyn Federal Court.

The Twin was enormously popular in the mid-sixties. Six bettors collected $23,500 on a Twin at RR; another time a single winning ticket brought $132,000; two winning tickets at YR were good for 90K each. But the ticket exchange and buying and selling of live tickets got messy. The Twin went to the tri and that went to the super.

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« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2013, 08:20:15 PM »

 One night at maywood back in the day there was a friend of Ron Marsh's standing out by the fence of the grandstand. I was one of just a few outside that night because it was getting really cold. I saw Marsh slow his horse down #7 BOOGIE WOOGIE BOY who was 5-1 at the time with 5 minutes to post. The horse with Marsh in the bike stops right in front of his buddy. All I heard Marsh's buddy say was, is it a go? Marsh replies back, yes it is. The guys runs in to make a bet and BOOGIE WOOGIE BOY goes to 7-2 in one click and then off at 5-2 odds. Marsh leaves and makes the lead and turning for home opens up the lead with every stride. Back in those days it took a decent chunk of money to move odds, not like today. I just found it strange that they would say what they said and the result that soon happend. May have just been a case of was the horse feeling good, but who knows with Ronnie. I always liked Ronnie's personality, but he got caught up in a lot of garbage.
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« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2013, 08:33:04 PM »

One night at maywood back in the day there was a friend of Ron Marsh's standing out by the fence of the grandstand. I was one of just a few outside that night because it was getting really cold. I saw Marsh slow his horse down #7 BOOGIE WOOGIE BOY who was 5-1 at the time with 5 minutes to post. The horse with Marsh in the bike stops right in front of his buddy. All I heard Marsh's buddy say was, is it a go? Marsh replies back, yes it is. The guys runs in to make a bet and BOOGIE WOOGIE BOY goes to 7-2 in one click and then off at 5-2 odds. Marsh leaves and makes the lead and turning for home opens up the lead with every stride. Back in those days it took a decent chunk of money to move odds, not like today. I just found it strange that they would say what they said and the result that soon happend. May have just been a case of was the horse feeling good, but who knows with Ronnie. I always liked Ronnie's personality, but he got caught up in a lot of garbage.

Nose candy was rampant.
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« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2013, 08:37:11 PM »

 Walter Paisley also had some kid back in the day make bets for him. It was always $500 to win. He didn't bet that often but when he was confident he would pull the trigger and send the kid in. He was driving False Witness one night in a stakes race when he sent the kid in with 5 big ones. The horse had the 1 hole and went off at even money. He wired easily. When Walter pulled the trigger he never lost. At least I never saw him lose on one of his big bets. He was one of the smarter guys in the game.
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« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2013, 08:43:39 PM »

Nose candy was rampant. Marsh would drive 5 winners on a regular basis on a friday or saturday in chicago. He was always broke though. He drove so many winners, but still got involved in betting schemes. His drug habit devoured him. Right after he got banned for life he filed for bankruptcy. This is a guy that should have had tons of cash, but was virtually broke when he got caught.
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« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2013, 08:59:25 PM »

Walter Paisley also had some kid back in the day make bets for him. It was always $500 to win. He didn't bet that often but when he was confident he would pull the trigger and send the kid in. He was driving False Witness one night in a stakes race when he sent the kid in with 5 big ones. The horse had the 1 hole and went off at even money. He wired easily. When Walter pulled the trigger he never lost. At least I never saw him lose on one of his big bets. He was one of the smarter guys in the game.
Didn't Butch buy a couple of seats on the Board of Trade after his retirement from the game...No tag days for him.
Banks retired into that  fancy area in Fla.  Star Island or one of those...I forget which one. Stan rarely rarely lost when his money was down.
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« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2013, 09:04:02 PM »

Didn't Butch buy a couple of seats on the Board of Trade after his retirement from the game...No tag days for him.
Banks retired into that  fancy area in Fla.  Star Island or one of those...I forget which one. Stan rarely rarely lost when his money was down.

i cashed a very nice ticket on stanley on a late driver change !
they were racing at spk because haw was burned down.stanley won the 1st out of the 9 hole at better than 25-1.about 10 mins to the 2nd they announce a late change on the 9 to stanley.he wins again at 25-1 and the double paid less than $500
for me banks and busse were my fav exacta combos until luc and micel took over at the meds
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« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2013, 09:04:32 PM »

I went to a window and asked who the drivers bet.

They told me.  I cashed.
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« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2013, 09:06:26 PM »

 Stanley Banks and Daryl Busse both went to florida for their final resting place. Racing was glorious back in 80's!!!! I could tell you story upon story back then. The 90's was still good, but it started to decline in the late 90's. The free for all races were really good at maywood in 80's. They some top quality horses.
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« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2013, 09:08:31 PM »

Stanley Banks and Daryl Busse both went to florida for their final resting place. Racing was glorious back in 80's!!!! I could tell you story upon story back then. The 90's was still good, but it started to decline in the late 90's. The free for all races were really good at maywood in 80's. They some top quality horses.

converting spk to a 7/8ths was the last straw
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« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2013, 09:09:15 PM »

 Stanley and Daryl won a lot of races, but Dwight and Tom couldn't drive a lick LOL!
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« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2013, 09:11:37 PM »

Stanley and Daryl won a lot of races, but Dwight and Tom couldn't drive a lick LOL!

imagine egyptian cheetah with a real driver
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« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2013, 09:12:02 PM »

Walter Paisley also had some kid back in the day make bets for him. It was always $500 to win. He didn't bet that often but when he was confident he would pull the trigger and send the kid in. He was driving False Witness one night in a stakes race when he sent the kid in with 5 big ones. The horse had the 1 hole and went off at even money. He wired easily. When Walter pulled the trigger he never lost. At least I never saw him lose on one of his big bets. He was one of the smarter guys in the game.
Johnny Zawitowski?
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« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2013, 09:12:51 PM »

converting spk to a 7/8ths was the last straw
Never understood why they did that. I have races on tape of the track before they converted. The turns were still bad even with the conversion.
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« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2013, 09:19:05 PM »

Johnny Zawitowski? Could have been. Purple striped colors he wore.
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« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2013, 09:25:44 PM »

imagine egyptian cheetah with a real driver
Ya, no kidding. Dwight and Cathy Rutherford dated for a long time. I think they split though. Egyptian Cheetah tangled with Lensometer at maywood several times. There were a few weeks in a row where Lensometer won with Lavern. Dwight and cheetah always got second. Pers always paid good because Mudges Nero kept taking action but wouldn't fire when he raced against Lensometer. Ron Marsh drove Mudge's Nero.
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« Reply #45 on: February 10, 2013, 09:31:28 PM »

Ya, no kidding. Dwight and Cathy Rutherford dated for a long time. I think they split though. Egyptian Cheetah tangled with Lensometer at maywood several times. There were a few weeks in a row where Lensometer won with Lavern. Dwight and cheetah always got second. Pers always paid good because Mudges Nero kept taking action but wouldn't fire when he raced against Lensometer. Ron Marsh drove Mudge's Nero.



HEY DIAMOND,,REMEMBER ,,LENSOMETER,,


THEM 2 COLD YRS AT HAWTHORNE,,HE WAS BRINGIN IT ON,,,,KICKIN ASS


DIDNT SOME GUY,,ARN,,LAST NAME OWN HIM....


WOW U GUYS REMEBER LENSOMETER,,KOOOL... trophy trophy trophy trophy trophy trophy thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up heart heart heart
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« Reply #46 on: February 10, 2013, 09:32:51 PM »

Stanley and Daryl won a lot of races, but Dwight and Tom couldn't drive a lick LOL!
Sort of like Rick and the abysmal Paul Reuschel for the Cubbies.  laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy
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« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2013, 09:44:24 PM »



HEY DIAMOND,,REMEMBER ,,LENSOMETER,,


THEM 2 COLD YRS AT HAWTHORNE,,HE WAS BRINGIN IT ON,,,,KICKIN ASS


DIDNT SOME GUY,,ARN,,LAST NAME OWN HIM....


WOW U GUYS REMEBER LENSOMETER,,KOOOL... trophy trophy trophy trophy trophy trophy thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up heart heart heart
Yep, a guy named Arn did own him I believe. Lensometer won like 4 or 5 in a row at maywood at one point. His best races were at maywood and hawthorne. He always made a big move on the backside and the leaders could never fend him off at maywood.
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« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2013, 09:58:38 PM »

 There were a lot of good horses on the scene from that time period. Jack Horner N, happy sharon, midas almahurst, mostly melvin, baron lancer, timelys best man, tarport boss, denali, black shadow, hothead, great expectations, charamar nite lite, sam's storm, dutch treat, rambling willie, barbara's prince, sole command, eclipse, casting couch, anniecrombie, cordon cordon, mighty oak diamond, virgie's eagle, in his favor, wiregrass kerrigan, heritage time, sammy blue chip, hot jammin, childwood hanover, desperate lady, penn st, foolish eyes, tricky dick n, keystone raider, and wicked brew just to name a few.
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« Reply #49 on: February 10, 2013, 10:00:55 PM »

WASNT EGYPTIAN CHEETAH,,ORGINALLY DRIVEN ,,BY DARRYL BUSSE,,


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« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2013, 10:08:38 PM »

Let's get back on topic.
What do you think of the people described above?

Are they getting something most of us don't?

Are they idiots?

Do they hate money?

Do they handicap around the supposed cheater etc;

What about the open windows that they claim are all over North America with special betters getting this advatage?

Are they fools to keep betting on thsi game if they believe the points made above?
Or are they geniuses who sit at a computer watching the races from home and still able to spot the duggists, fixes and open windows?

I think that race fixing gets confused with "setting one up for next week."
Going 4 wide or running up into a pile of horses to intentionally not win is different than a predetermined result.
They both happen, but fixed races are rare, in my opinion..The other is not rare..
As for open windows for big bettors, I believe that is pure bullshit.
Money and odds transmission still has a delay because of rotation, and until that issue is resolved, odds will continue to change while a race is running..
If anyone believes in widespread fixing and open windows, that person would truly be a *** of the largest magnitude if he continued to bet one dollar on harness races.
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« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2013, 10:13:31 PM »

I think that race fixing gets confused with "setting one up for next week."
Going 4 wide or running up into a pile of horses to intentionally not win is different than a predetermined result.
They both happen, but fixed races are rare, in my opinion..The other is not rare..
As for open windows for big bettors, I believe that is pure bullshit.
Money and odds transmission still has a delay because of rotation, and until that issue is resolved, odds will continue to change while a race is running..
If anyone believes in widespread fixing and open windows, that person would truly be a *** of the largest magnitude if he continued to bet one dollar on harness races. The only thing I can say about that is, everytime a horse has a big lead in the stretch the horses odds always goes down. NEVER goes up LOL!
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« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2013, 10:14:06 PM »

Getting back to the topic, I agree, Burton.

When you consider that if you to the track just once a week, they have 4 tracks that you're watching 10 races (more likely 6 tracks with 12 races), that's 40 races a week.  Once a week for 20 years is roughly 40,000 races.

I've been going for about 35 years - simulcasting for 15(?) years.  I figure I've seen somewhere in between 50,000 - 100,000 races.

I could count on one hand, the races I thought were "fixed".  Obviously, that does not include stiffing.  Every time I try to figure something out that was outside of handicapping & outside the exotic boards, I lose, lose, lose.  So I gave up trying many years ago.
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« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2013, 10:20:56 PM »

I think that race fixing gets confused with "setting one up for next week."
Going 4 wide or running up into a pile of horses to intentionally not win is different than a predetermined result.
They both happen, but fixed races are rare, in my opinion..The other is not rare..
As for open windows for big bettors, I believe that is pure bullshit.
Money and odds transmission still has a delay because of rotation, and until that issue is resolved, odds will continue to change while a race is running..
If anyone believes in widespread fixing and open windows, that person would truly be a *** of the largest magnitude if he continued to bet one dollar on harness races.
ergo still not an honest effort, so does that in fact rise to the level of cheating the betting public and next time out cashing for the connections and those in the know ?
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« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2013, 10:24:56 PM »

 Depends on how you phrase fixed. Back in that scandal with Tilden and Mills you had 2 guys pulling the 4-5* favorite and the second choice 3-1 off stride. Now we may not know the exact outcome of the race, but what we do know is that the people in on it in Vegas were bombing away at gimmicks leaving out the two short priced horses and using everone else. When your betting 20 or 40 tri's knowing the prohibitive favorite and second will not be there, then you are going to score big because longshots are now going to be involved. To me that's a fixed race even though you don't know the exact outcome, but you do know your going to score big!
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« Reply #55 on: February 10, 2013, 10:31:49 PM »

Depends on how you phrase fixed. Back in that scandal with Tilden and Mills you had 2 guys pulling the 4-5* favorite and the second choice 3-1 off stride. Now we may not know the exact outcome of the race, but what we do know is that the people in on it in Vegas were bombing away at gimmicks leaving out the two short priced horses and using everone else. When your betting 20 or 40 tri's knowing the prohibitive favorite and second will not be there, then you are going to score big because longshots are now going to be involved. To me that's a fixed race even though you don't know the exact outcome, but you do know your going to score big!
No different than running your own into traffic or going 4 wide...Another one to throw out...So now there are three gone from any tickets..IMO, Unfair advantage is the key.
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« Reply #56 on: February 10, 2013, 10:35:06 PM »

Dishonest, but not a fix.
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« Reply #57 on: February 10, 2013, 10:39:47 PM »

Dishonest, but not a fix.

So define fix..Predetermined result.
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« Reply #58 on: February 10, 2013, 10:53:43 PM »

Yeah, I would say predetermined result.
Like telling the guys who is live and who is not.
A setup or "legal stiff", ripping off a 26 second quarter last week for a horse that doesn't really like to leave only inflates odds for the following week. I'm sure you know the drill.
I saw and bet two races that were fixed at Vernon Downs in 1994.
My trainer told me that the "live" winner would not be passed no matter what, and gave me two horses for the second position, and two in the third position. The other four horses were totally dead and would not compete.
Winner paid $9, the middle horse paid $9, and the show horse paid maybe $4.40.
Exacta came back $26, and the triple paid $80 or so. All really short prices, even for that place, but I had the triple for $25 I think, and the exacta for $50.
I'm sure I had the biggest cut of those pools, probably more than my scumbag trainer..I had more money than he did to bet with..
Like I said, setting one up for next week isn't a fix in the usual sense.
Darkening the form guarantees you nothing next week, but can be a big help..
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