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Author Topic: AP vs ITHA  (Read 3551 times)
beobob
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« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2013, 12:27:53 AM »

What is your "real name" Zimms ?

I think I know who it is, and she's a good woman.  I might not always agree with her on everything but she works hard and wants what is fair.  What is fair and what is best might be what we don't agree on, but it does not detract from her integrity.
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beobob
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« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2013, 12:35:57 AM »

If you're counting on anyone at all to fall on their sword for the good of someone else, you've got a long wait. The guy with the most money of all won't budge an inch, and you can't expect guys hanging on by a shoestring to do so, either.

As was previously mentioned, and is always mentioned by horsemen in these situations no matter where they occur, it's about "opportunities". Running three days a week for four months a year just isn't going to get it done.

I agree completely with that, but sometimes you're not given the option of falling  on your sword.  It is math and what the market will bear.  Sometimes I get the feeling that people still think that we are the only gambling option in the state and there is no ADW, all the money is wagered on site.

If your horse has to win 6 races a year to break even, you won't last long.  And whatever money Mr D has doesn't matter anymore.  AP answers to CDI shareholders who start each quarter at $0.00
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Livingthedream
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« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2013, 09:30:10 AM »

  In my opinion it appears that the ITHA has chosen sides, and that might not be the best thing for us.

That is exactly my point Beobob. And that is why IMO that it is a conflict of interest for Glen and Mike to negotiate with AP. They have a differant agenda dealing with AP as they do with Hawthorne. Chris did a great job last year with AP, Why not again?
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beobob
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« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2013, 12:21:50 PM »

Is this stall rent issue the sticking point in contract negotiations, or is it one of several issues?
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2013, 01:14:55 PM »

I think that comparison might be apples and oranges.  Hawthorne has no choice but to do whatever the ITHA wants (ie. the impact money) because they are hanging by a thread and need the ITHA to back them in any battle with the IRB against AP.

Unless you're someone involved in the negotiations, you don't know that Hawthorne rolls over and caves to whatever the ITHA wants. It's a theory, but an alternative theory is that Hawthorne is simply more reasonable on things like the horsemen's allocation of their own purse money, and not as nickle and dime about other things, as Arlington.

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Even the foolish 250K that we learned on a different thread Mike Campbell thought was a waste of money at some point, was still supported by the ITHA at the IRB meeting.

What we learned on that other thread is that the DRF story you are leaning on as a source didn't tell the whole story about what was actually said by the ITHA at the IRB hearing. The Tribune story had details it didn't, and ggenie claims there was testimony given at the IRB meeting AGAINST that usage of $250k.

Quote
In my opinion it appears that the ITHA has chosen sides, and that might not be the best thing for us.

Once again, the ITHA (and horsemen everywhere, unless they are a puppet regime) chooses the side of what's best for the horsemen, each and every time. Your opinion is your opinion but that's all.
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
nmslim
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« Reply #55 on: February 10, 2013, 01:25:20 PM »

I probably missed it,but are the Racing Board and ITHA positions paid positions?
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #56 on: February 10, 2013, 01:27:30 PM »

I agree completely with that, but sometimes you're not given the option of falling  on your sword.  It is math and what the market will bear. Sometimes I get the feeling that people still think that we are the only gambling option in the state and there is no ADW, all the money is wagered on site.

I believe what people think is that their own interests are just as important as Dick Duchossois', or Churchill's.

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If your horse has to win 6 races a year to break even, you won't last long.

If you horse doesn't even have the chance to win those, you won't either.

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And whatever money Mr D has doesn't matter anymore.  AP answers to CDI shareholders who start each quarter at $0.00

That's a convenient fiction to fall back on every time Arlington and Dick D. want to say, "Wha? It wasn't us! Honest!" But Dick D. through TDG is the largest stockholder at Churchill, so those heartless greedy penny pinching CDI stockholders are no other than Dick himself. He and a another family are on the board. And you know as well as anyone that he still runs every last detail of the Arlington operation down to appointing all the management. So let's drop this excuse that it's some faceless out of state corporation calling all the shots on what Arlington and its parent does in Illinois. It's Dick.  
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #57 on: February 10, 2013, 01:29:45 PM »

Is this stall rent issue the sticking point in contract negotiations, or is it one of several issues?

Well, there we go, we don't even really know the sticking points, but that doesn't stop us from reaching the conclusion that it's the ITHA that is totally unreasonable and entirely at fault in the negotiations with AP, does it.
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
Scav
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« Reply #58 on: February 10, 2013, 02:45:29 PM »

Campbell's response to Arlington's response...

Trainers & Owners Beware of Stall Rent Provision in AP 2013 Stall App.

I had a conversation with the Executive Director of the Illinois Racing Board
 
this morning, 2/9/13, who confirmed, despite AP's denials, that Arlington Park's
 
published 2013 Stall Application including stall rent imposition "clearly violates"
 
IRB Rules.

Imposing a stall rent on trainers during a live racing meet is an unprecedented
 
attempted take by Arlington Park.
 
Unless Arlington Park, or its parent Churchill Downs, Inc., reverses this
 
decision quickly, ITHA will seek emergency relief from the Racing Board.

Mike Campbell, ITHA President
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zimms1948
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« Reply #59 on: February 11, 2013, 03:43:00 PM »

Seriously?
You can't figure it out?
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brivolta
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« Reply #60 on: February 11, 2013, 05:28:39 PM »

Seriously?
You can't figure it out?

Are you a superstar or something? I mean, I'm not the one "trying" to figure it out...so maybe it would be easy if I put in some effort. But to assume people should "know" who you are is pretty arrogant, no?
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #61 on: February 11, 2013, 05:39:54 PM »

Are you a superstar or something? I mean, I'm not the one "trying" to figure it out...so maybe it would be easy if I put in some effort. But to assume people should "know" who you are is pretty arrogant, no?

A lot of people do. She's been on the forum a long time.
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
Chris Szulc
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« Reply #62 on: February 11, 2013, 06:18:12 PM »

A lot of people do. She's been on the forum a long time.

She may have been here since 2006 but 45 posts is hardly noticeable to those new here or who aren't familiar with all of the Chicago racing scene.
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brivolta
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« Reply #63 on: February 11, 2013, 07:38:34 PM »

A lot of people do. She's been on the forum a long time.

My post wasn't meant to say nobody knows who she is. But her post came off sort of "Hollywood". Maybe it wasn't meant that way. But that's how it came across.
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Equiforce
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« Reply #64 on: February 11, 2013, 11:15:02 PM »

Thanks Brivolta.  I was pretty sure i knew as well.  Just seemed funny that someone would comment on others not using their names, when theirs wasn't BLATENT.  I agree it is "partial", but assuming it was who I thought it could possibly be, didn't make it definite.  I didn't want to assume in other words.
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Scav
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« Reply #65 on: February 11, 2013, 11:26:00 PM »

Thanks Brivolta.  I was pretty sure i knew as well.  Just seemed funny that someone would comment on others not using their names, when theirs wasn't BLATENT.  I agree it is "partial", but assuming it was who I thought it could possibly be, didn't make it definite.  I didn't want to assume in other words.

Who are you guys speakinh about?
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nmslim
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« Reply #66 on: February 12, 2013, 11:53:24 AM »

Arlington is not Hawthorne.It is a different entity.They should be able to set their own rules for their property,as should any track.It is so sad that a business that is "dying",(i.e. Illinois racing),everyone in the position of influence always seems to be adversarial.Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic comes to mind when thinking on all this craziness.If you cannot abide by the rules of a track,vote with your feet and go somewhere else.If the Illinois racing scene is as viable and competitive as we always hear from the tracks and ITHA,then go to another track.Just shut up and get to work.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #67 on: February 12, 2013, 11:57:28 AM »

Arlington is not Hawthorne.It is a different entity.They should be able to set their own rules for their property,as should any track.

And the horsemen should be able to set the rules for their own property, such as their simulcast signal, and what they charge others to take wagering on it. And they should be able to set the rules for the purse account which is their money by law.
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
nmslim
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« Reply #68 on: February 12, 2013, 12:40:08 PM »

Aren't horsemen getting a cut of the simulcast?As much as they are involved,I always look on them as independent contractors and the tracks provide the venue for them to ply their trade.It would be much different if the horsemen had to provide their own stabling and training facilities,but they do not.The signal is primarily the property of the business providing it,i.e. the track.I am not suggesting the horsemen are not entitled to something,but it is a not a 50/50 proposition.
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zimms1948
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« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2013, 03:23:22 PM »

Thanks Brivolta.  I was pretty sure i knew as well.  Just seemed funny that someone would comment on others not using their names, when theirs wasn't BLATENT.  I agree it is "partial", but assuming it was who I thought it could possibly be, didn't make it definite.  I didn't want to assume in other words.

Very sorry, I never meant to go Hollywood on anyone.
My involment at the track includes training, my own horses and some for others.
I have also served on the racetrack chaplaincy as vice president for several years, worked on the Rideforthe cure party for most of its time as a great function for the horsemen.
Sr co-chair for the Penny Chenery Luncheon during Million Week for 6 of it's 10 years
Got to serve 1 term on the ITHA board.
Helps with Galloping out when they have functions.
Puts on the horsemens' picnic for the last 3 years which is attended by 500 horsemen.

I would think that a person with the zimms1948 would be easy to guess if anyone was involved in the tracks and the backside. And if you see me at the track, when I am running a horse, if I am not out of business, introduce yourself.
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big wally
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« Reply #70 on: February 13, 2013, 03:40:08 PM »

.The signal is primarily the property of the business providing it,

Signal belongs to the horsemen if they dont want to send to certain Locale.... Problems with the CDI empire should be noted with the Calder Horsemen a few years ago and last year when the Kentucky Horsemen would not send the Signal from Churchill to Illinois the first few days of derby week because of the ITHA/AP dispute.... Gotta love CDI Management a bunch lying scumbags they are............
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kellytuc
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« Reply #71 on: February 13, 2013, 09:35:03 PM »

The signal is primarily the property of the business providing it,i.e. the track.I am not suggesting the horsemen are not entitled to something,but it is a not a 50/50 proposition.
Wow!   I'm an old harness guy, but if this is the mindset on the TBred side, good luck to you all.  You're doomed.  Hey, NMSLIM, maybe the horsemen should go out there and race for blankets.   bang head bang head bang head
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Equiforce
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« Reply #72 on: February 13, 2013, 10:31:42 PM »

I am aware of your accomplishments, just did not wish to assume.  There are people on this forum that are not local.  So, SIMMS was a hint, but not something I would assume on....my apologies.
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SIXRULER
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« Reply #73 on: February 14, 2013, 01:34:44 AM »

I am aware of your accomplishments, just did not wish to assume.  There are people on this forum that are not local.  So, SIMMS was a hint, but not something I would assume on....my apologies.

I am also shocked that the people who are In the business are not aware of who the poster is. Never tried to hide anything that that I have read.
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zimms1948
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« Reply #74 on: February 14, 2013, 10:53:48 AM »

I am definitely not offended and wish all of us well in this business. I think that between the racing not being profitable and the real estate investments, I am finished.
One vendor is litigious and I think I am done because of it.

I didn't become broke on purpose. And don't blame the vendor,but really, why would a businessman front that much money to ME? i have never had good credit since I raised 3 children with no child support.

The next horse could have been THE ONE!

Bye.
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