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Author Topic: 5 best older male pacers and female pacers of all time?  (Read 1777 times)
kingofcrete
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« Reply #50 on: January 30, 2013, 03:11:09 AM »

OLDER FEMALES:   SHADY DAISY, SUNNIE TAR, , ANNIECROMBIE, HANDLE WITH CARE

OLDER MALES:   ALBATROSS, CARDIGAN BAY, RAMBLING WILLIE, CAM FELLA
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HarnessFanDE
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« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2013, 08:33:06 AM »

I have to think Staying Together has to be on that list. I agree with Cardigan Bay, but there are so many. Whoever made the comment about Golden Receiver being the best they ever saw must have a memory of 15 minutes. Great individual races and performances doesnt make a great horse. Western Shore has had unbelievably game miles going down the road beating Won the West , among others, but he wouldnt be considered one of the greatest ever. For those who can remember 5 years ago, how about the mile when Manhardt was almost brought to a stop then STILL circled a damn good field in the Presidential? That doesnt mean he's one of the all time greats either, but that was as amazing as it gets. There are SO many good ones who beat really good ones. For the mares, I think Anniecrombie was just unreal, especially for the way she got treated during the Carver years... head shake. There is no shortage, and there is no consensus. Great post and topic.

Some fool sold that horse for 40k
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Mel from Moline
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« Reply #52 on: January 30, 2013, 08:40:49 AM »

No, I don't correct spelling, punctuation, grammar or typos.

Its the fact that my words never implied that a the individual "form spree" by Golden Receiver should compare to a lifelong career.  I stick by my comment that his current form is the best I have ever seen -- but who knows how long it will last.  I do not consider his two years worth of work to be on a par with the greatest of the game.

To explain, ad nauseum, there has never been a horse that shows such incredible bursts of speed at both the beginning AND end of each race.  That combination makes him unbeatable -- as long as the form spree lasts.


If I understand you correctly, then LisMara would qualify in that area. He just never stopped going forward when right.
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« Reply #53 on: January 30, 2013, 08:57:07 AM »

MYAKKA PRINCE

SIR DALRAE

INTREPID N


TOWN LEADER

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Psycho Dad
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« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2013, 09:32:31 AM »

Sorry guys i didnt read carefully, i didnt notice OLDER just saw 'best pacers' and went with it!  screwy

I wanna say Genghis Khan, but who knows.

Nobody "knows" which is why this is a fun topic.  Personally, I wouldn't rank Genghis Khan that highly.
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Slim Russ
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« Reply #55 on: January 30, 2013, 09:58:07 AM »

Overcall was a top five all-time older pacer.

Super Wave was also an outstanding older pacer.

Others:

Laverne Hanover
Horton Hanover
Maida Million
Miss Conna Adios

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Sam R
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« Reply #56 on: January 30, 2013, 10:11:31 AM »

Lillian Green "The Pacing Machine."
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Take The Money And Run
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« Reply #57 on: January 30, 2013, 10:12:26 AM »



Kat Byed

Fly Fly Solly
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Sam R
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« Reply #58 on: January 30, 2013, 10:19:30 AM »

Overcall for a couple of years was unbeatable.
Cam Fella was always hard to beat.
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TheRedMile
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« Reply #59 on: January 30, 2013, 10:32:14 AM »

WON THE WEST
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PURPLE LAVERN
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« Reply #60 on: January 30, 2013, 12:20:32 PM »

ANNIECROMBIE
GO BEA GO
PIPECREEK SUSIE
JR AMY   (If she only had a driver!)
PACIFIC  (ALL TIME FAVORITE- AMAZING LOOKING HORSE)


ANXIOUS ROBBIE
EGYPTIAN DANCER
INCREDIBLE FINALE
MR DALRAE
GOSOX
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stone162
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« Reply #61 on: January 30, 2013, 12:54:23 PM »

There hasnt been a big huge standout in the older pacing division in a few years....


I have to disagree with this statement.......Foiled Again is one of the best older pacers of all time......he made over 1.2 million in 2012 and 2011 and is the richest pacer of alltime with earnings of over 4.6 million.......Three trotters have earned more than Foiled Again: Varenne ($5.63 million in U.S. dollars), Moni Maker ($5.58 million) and Jag De Bellouet ($4.97 million)...........this horse has been the horse to beat for a few years and to say he doesnt stand out is wrong IMO

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nextbonus
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« Reply #62 on: January 30, 2013, 12:56:20 PM »

as far as females, I think hands down the BEST of all time was Pacific Flight N.. The rest of the top 5 would be tough to fill out (I agree with Loyal Opposition and Shady Daisy), because many horses from the 30's thru the 70's are looooooong forgotten, and yeah I think probably the best of those decades could hold their own with today's best (trotting or pacing).

YAY!!!  Someone remembers Pacific Flight N!  So now I get to brag on her for a few minutes.

I admit I don't have an unbiased bone in my body when it comes to PFN.  I loved her to death and enjoyed every second she was mine. 
 
It is difficult to compare horses from different eras.  I would have trouble saying she was better than many of the great mares already listed.  But for the two and three quarter years she raced for my partners and me (June 1994 thru March 1997), she was as good as anyone.  Consider this:
 
PFN is the only horse ever to hold track records at all 4 Chicago tracks.  I have forgotten his name, but some Wayne Moore trotter was the only horse (besides her) to hold a Chicago track record at more than two different tracks.  The trotter held records at three.  PFN actually held multiple records at some venues.  Here are her aged mare track records.  Most have been broken, but I think the Sportsman's mark is safe.
 
1:53.2 Hawthorne 
 
1:52.3 Sportsman's
 
1:51.1 Balmoral
 
1:52.3 Maywood
 
Prior to being imported, Pacific Flight won the Group 1 New Zealand Oaks.  http://www.addington.co.nz/Timeline.asp?Case=4&RaceID=3&YearID=1993
 
She won over half her USA races (38 of 75).  In addition to her Chicago feats (71% wins and victorious in The Pretty Direct stake twice), she won at Lexington, Freehold (2), Yonkers (2), The Big M (2) and she beat Shady Daisy in a Northfield mares invitational on Battle of Lake Erie night in 1995 (she was keeping Battle starter, Next Bonus A, company on the trip to Ohio).
 
PFN beat Breeders Crown champion Swing Back seven times.  In fairness, Swing Back beat her four times, including a big stake at Garden State.  It was a fierce rivalry which was renewed twelve times in Chicago, out east, and in Canada.  The only time those two amazons faced each other and neither won was against a pretty fair pacing mare named Ellamony.
 
Pacific Flight beat a bunch of good horses besides Shady Daisy and Swing Back.  Many names may be unfamiliar to folks outside of Chicago, but these were all top flight pacers at the time.  They include world champion Camorous, Falcon Dakota, No Control N, Make A Deal, Columbia Nipper, New Bucks, Vacationing and Jules Jodoin.
 
She retired as the leading mare in 1:55 miles on a half mile track.  She was fourth overall behind Riyadh, Dust Devil and Western Hanover.
 
Other achievements include finishing second to Ellamony in 1995 Milton ( I'm not saying would have won, but she started in the second tier and got stuck behind a mare going nowhere), and being named USTA Horse of the Month for January 1997.
 
Her influence on Chicago racing continues today as the dam of the sire of the speedy Illinois bred pacer Al's Hammered.  She is also the grand dam of FFA pacer Malak Uswaad N. 
 
 

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Slim Russ
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« Reply #63 on: January 30, 2013, 02:00:57 PM »


I have to disagree with this statement.......Foiled Again is one of the best older pacers of all time......he made over 1.2 million in 2012 and 2011 and is the richest pacer of alltime with earnings of over 4.6 million.......Three trotters have earned more than Foiled Again: Varenne ($5.63 million in U.S. dollars), Moni Maker ($5.58 million) and Jag De Bellouet ($4.97 million)...........this horse has been the horse to beat for a few years and to say he doesnt stand out is wrong IMO



The careers of FA, WTW and Shark Gesture overlapped. Foiled has never been a better horse than the other two. WTW had trouble with his legs and Shark Gesture had a bad habit of running, but both were superior to FA.

Foiled tops them in longevity and the ability to scoot around a half-mile track in an age when most top tier horses are kept away from them. He has earned almost $2 million on the little tracks. He has banked more than $1 million at Yonkers Raceway, much of it in the Levy.

As an aged pacer FA has made 63% more starts than Shark Gesture in his aged form and 53% more than WTW. Thatís where the difference rests.

If you compare Foiledís head-to-head record with the other two youíll see that he has never been as good as they were.
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burton
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« Reply #64 on: January 30, 2013, 02:18:27 PM »

YAY!!!  Someone remembers Pacific Flight N!  So now I get to brag on her for a few minutes.

I admit I don't have an unbiased bone in my body when it comes to PFN.  I loved her to death and enjoyed every second she was mine. 
 
It is difficult to compare horses from different eras.  I would have trouble saying she was better than many of the great mares already listed.  But for the two and three quarter years she raced for my partners and me (June 1994 thru March 1997), she was as good as anyone.  Consider this:
 
PFN is the only horse ever to hold track records at all 4 Chicago tracks.  I have forgotten his name, but some Wayne Moore trotter was the only horse (besides her) to hold a Chicago track record at more than two different tracks.  The trotter held records at three.  PFN actually held multiple records at some venues.  Here are her aged mare track records.  Most have been broken, but I think the Sportsman's mark is safe.
 
1:53.2 Hawthorne 
 
1:52.3 Sportsman's
 
1:51.1 Balmoral
 
1:52.3 Maywood
 
Prior to being imported, Pacific Flight won the Group 1 New Zealand Oaks.  http://www.addington.co.nz/Timeline.asp?Case=4&RaceID=3&YearID=1993
 
She won over half her USA races (38 of 75).  In addition to her Chicago feats (71% wins and victorious in The Pretty Direct stake twice), she won at Lexington, Freehold (2), Yonkers (2), The Big M (2) and she beat Shady Daisy in a Northfield mares invitational on Battle of Lake Erie night in 1995 (she was keeping Battle starter, Next Bonus A, company on the trip to Ohio).
 
PFN beat Breeders Crown champion Swing Back seven times.  In fairness, Swing Back beat her four times, including a big stake at Garden State.  It was a fierce rivalry which was renewed twelve times in Chicago, out east, and in Canada.  The only time those two amazons faced each other and neither won was against a pretty fair pacing mare named Ellamony.
 
Pacific Flight beat a bunch of good horses besides Shady Daisy and Swing Back.  Many names may be unfamiliar to folks outside of Chicago, but these were all top flight pacers at the time.  They include world champion Camorous, Falcon Dakota, No Control N, Make A Deal, Columbia Nipper, New Bucks, Vacationing and Jules Jodoin.
 
She retired as the leading mare in 1:55 miles on a half mile track.  She was fourth overall behind Riyadh, Dust Devil and Western Hanover.
 
Other achievements include finishing second to Ellamony in 1995 Milton ( I'm not saying would have won, but she started in the second tier and got stuck behind a mare going nowhere), and being named USTA Horse of the Month for January 1997.
 
Her influence on Chicago racing continues today as the dam of the sire of the speedy Illinois bred pacer Al's Hammered.  She is also the grand dam of FFA pacer Malak Uswaad N. 
 
 


She was a great one Bill.
Now that's got me thinking of another great race mare.
Pacific with Tom harmer.
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« Reply #65 on: January 30, 2013, 02:26:34 PM »

She was a great one Bill.
Now that's got me thinking of another great race mare.
Pacific with Tom harmer.

Tom Harmer very good trainer.
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Mel from Moline
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« Reply #66 on: January 30, 2013, 02:29:09 PM »

Perhaps someone on here was a member of Harmer's staff back then to verify, but I once heard an outstanding story about Pacific. Story was, she wasnt freelegged because of a spotless gait, it was because she was too mean to let them put hobbles on. Again, I havent a clue as to whether thats true or not, but one of those great stories you can only get on a racetrack. I was at QCD when she set the track record that day. Bill Lorance told us that the first thing he said to Harner was you couldnt have asked her a touch earlier to go faster? (Sportsman's TR was also 1:53, at the time)
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« Reply #67 on: January 30, 2013, 02:30:25 PM »

Tom Harmer very good trainer.

So is Procop a plea.
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jdizigg
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« Reply #68 on: January 30, 2013, 02:36:38 PM »


I have to disagree with this statement.......Foiled Again is one of the best older pacers of all time......he made over 1.2 million in 2012 and 2011 and is the richest pacer of alltime with earnings of over 4.6 million.......Three trotters have earned more than Foiled Again: Varenne ($5.63 million in U.S. dollars), Moni Maker ($5.58 million) and Jag De Bellouet ($4.97 million)...........this horse has been the horse to beat for a few years and to say he doesnt stand out is wrong IMO



Foiled again until recently was a small track horse that even burke would admit....it hasnt been until the past year year in a half that he was able to to the big mile track and win....  He couldnt even go with the big horses on teh big tracks a few years ago IMO...
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« Reply #69 on: January 30, 2013, 02:39:31 PM »

Niatross, Nihilator and SBSW didn't race past three. They don't qualify as "older pacers."
My bad, none of us can read here it seems. doh
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« Reply #70 on: January 30, 2013, 02:53:55 PM »

Sorry you aren't perfect like Renton.

Who's that ??   dunno
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burton
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« Reply #71 on: January 30, 2013, 02:58:04 PM »

Perhaps someone on here was a member of Harmer's staff back then to verify, but I once heard an outstanding story about Pacific. Story was, she wasnt freelegged because of a spotless gait, it was because she was too mean to let them put hobbles on. Again, I havent a clue as to whether thats true or not, but one of those great stories you can only get on a racetrack. I was at QCD when she set the track record that day. Bill Lorance told us that the first thing he said to Harner was you couldnt have asked her a touch earlier to go faster? (Sportsman's TR was also 1:53, at the time)
That was my understanding. I found out after cashing a great bet because of her.
It was on hambo Day and she was an overwhelming favorite in the big fillies & mare race tht day.  She broke in her wrmup and in the post parade she was galloping all over the track.
We then noticed someone had dropped a hundred grand or so to show on the horse.
We then bet our second and third choices to show. (we had blown a similar opportunity in the Cane pace at Yonkers on a Buddy Gilmour horse who's name escapes me). pacific wnet off at 2-5 or something close to it. she raced her hart out, stayed flat and lost third in a photo.
Our two plays hit the board and payed $40 and $28 dollars to show.
Thewinner was at 5-1.
A good memory.
A year or so later our trainer was stabled next to Harmer's barn at maywood in one of the rare summer meets there. I got to know Tom and Debbie and learned about the horse through them.
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TheRedMile
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« Reply #72 on: January 30, 2013, 03:17:54 PM »

my friend would not bet her in the shalee while we were in vegas instead he bet tyson at 1-100 to unify the titles
 bang head bang head

That was my understanding. I found out after cashing a great bet because of her.
It was on hambo Day and she was an overwhelming favorite in the big fillies & mare race tht day.  She broke in her wrmup and in the post parade she was galloping all over the track.
We then noticed someone had dropped a hundred grand or so to show on the horse.
We then bet our second and third choices to show. (we had blown a similar opportunity in the Cane pace at Yonkers on a Buddy Gilmour horse who's name escapes me). pacific wnet off at 2-5 or something close to it. she raced her hart out, stayed flat and lost third in a photo.
Our two plays hit the board and payed $40 and $28 dollars to show.
Thewinner was at 5-1.
A good memory.
A year or so later our trainer was stabled next to Harmer's barn at maywood in one of the rare summer meets there. I got to know Tom and Debbie and learned about the horse through them.
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stone162
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« Reply #73 on: January 30, 2013, 05:31:30 PM »

Foiled again until recently was a small track horse that even burke would admit....it hasnt been until the past year year in a half that he was able to to the big mile track and win....  He couldnt even go with the big horses on teh big tracks a few years ago IMO...

It doesnt matter if the horse doesnt like a mile track or not........when you only have 6 starts in your 4 and 5 and year old season at the big track it makes it hard to win there............this horse has been at the top of the FFA class for 3 years and IMO it doesnt matter where you race.......not many horses make 1.2 million in their 7 and 8 year old campaigns and this horse is the richest pacer of alltime so to not put him on a list of top FFA'ers is just crazy
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« Reply #74 on: January 30, 2013, 07:12:44 PM »

YAY!!!  Someone remembers Pacific Flight N!  So now I get to brag on her for a few minutes.

I admit I don't have an unbiased bone in my body when it comes to PFN.  I loved her to death and enjoyed every second she was mine. 
 
It is difficult to compare horses from different eras.  I would have trouble saying she was better than many of the great mares already listed.  But for the two and three quarter years she raced for my partners and me (June 1994 thru March 1997), she was as good as anyone.  Consider this:
 
PFN is the only horse ever to hold track records at all 4 Chicago tracks.  I have forgotten his name, but some Wayne Moore trotter was the only horse (besides her) to hold a Chicago track record at more than two different tracks.  The trotter held records at three.  PFN actually held multiple records at some venues.  Here are her aged mare track records.  Most have been broken, but I think the Sportsman's mark is safe.
 
1:53.2 Hawthorne 
 
1:52.3 Sportsman's
 
1:51.1 Balmoral
 
1:52.3 Maywood
 
Prior to being imported, Pacific Flight won the Group 1 New Zealand Oaks.  http://www.addington.co.nz/Timeline.asp?Case=4&RaceID=3&YearID=1993
 
She won over half her USA races (38 of 75).  In addition to her Chicago feats (71% wins and victorious in The Pretty Direct stake twice), she won at Lexington, Freehold (2), Yonkers (2), The Big M (2) and she beat Shady Daisy in a Northfield mares invitational on Battle of Lake Erie night in 1995 (she was keeping Battle starter, Next Bonus A, company on the trip to Ohio).
 
PFN beat Breeders Crown champion Swing Back seven times.  In fairness, Swing Back beat her four times, including a big stake at Garden State.  It was a fierce rivalry which was renewed twelve times in Chicago, out east, and in Canada.  The only time those two amazons faced each other and neither won was against a pretty fair pacing mare named Ellamony.
 
Pacific Flight beat a bunch of good horses besides Shady Daisy and Swing Back.  Many names may be unfamiliar to folks outside of Chicago, but these were all top flight pacers at the time.  They include world champion Camorous, Falcon Dakota, No Control N, Make A Deal, Columbia Nipper, New Bucks, Vacationing and Jules Jodoin.
 
She retired as the leading mare in 1:55 miles on a half mile track.  She was fourth overall behind Riyadh, Dust Devil and Western Hanover.
 
Other achievements include finishing second to Ellamony in 1995 Milton ( I'm not saying would have won, but she started in the second tier and got stuck behind a mare going nowhere), and being named USTA Horse of the Month for January 1997.
 
Her influence on Chicago racing continues today as the dam of the sire of the speedy Illinois bred pacer Al's Hammered.  She is also the grand dam of FFA pacer Malak Uswaad N. 
 
 




I dp kmow this she had the quickest turn off foot I have ever seen on a horse. LITTLE JOE used to flip her three wide and it would be lights out. WHAT A BRUSH SHE HAD.
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