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Author Topic: 5 best older male pacers and female pacers of all time?  (Read 2115 times)
dnnj1
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« on: January 29, 2013, 09:08:43 AM »

Thoughts on who the best horses and mares of all time are?
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salzburg
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« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2013, 09:46:11 AM »

ill give the same answer i gave somewhere else- mr big,, and for female pacer, im going with a local horse- bunny lake
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Slim Russ
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« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2013, 09:53:39 AM »

I’ll take older to mean that the horse had to race successfully beyond age four. Two giants of the FFA class I would include are the HOF Immortals, Bye Bye Byrd and Cardigan Bay. Triple B raced through age six and over the course of his career set or equaled four world records. He retired as the leading money winner of all time. Cardigan Bay had a stellar career Down Under before being shipped to the US where he competed at the highest level from age eight to age twelve—1964-1968. He was the first standardbred to win a million dollars.
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Psycho Dad
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« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2013, 10:06:20 AM »

Never saw Bye Bye Byrd, but Cardigan Bay is a good choice.  However, CB had the extreme advantage of having Stanley Dancer drive while many of the drivers Dancer faced were trainers with dubious driving ability.

Don't know how long this form spree will last, but I have to put Golden Receiver at the top of the charts.  Why?  Because his early speed makes it impossible to keep him out of the race (Cardigan Bay did NOT have great gate speed and could be the victim of racing luck) while GRs ability to accelerate in the strech after using his early speed is unique to this game.
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Sam R
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« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2013, 10:10:17 AM »

Shady Daisey at her best, 2 or 3 years, has to be in the top 5 mares.
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Take The Money And Run
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« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2013, 10:13:56 AM »

Rambling Willie

Overcall

Cardigan Bay

Sandra Lil

Meadow Elva

Royal Count N

Admirals Express

Handle With Care

Genghis Khan

Whata Baron

Gallo Blue Chip

Isle Of Wight

Nickawampus Leroy

Overtrick
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 10:36:20 AM by Take The Money And Run » Report to moderator   Logged
Psycho Dad
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« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2013, 10:15:52 AM »

Silk Stockings was the queen of the pacing fillies, easily handling Tarport Hap when they were kids.  But as the years passed, it was Tarport Hap who got stronger and TH gets my vote as one of the 5 best older mares of all time.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 10:18:30 AM by Psycho Dad » Report to moderator   Logged
burton
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« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2013, 10:44:05 AM »

Freddy Scooter (if he only had a driver LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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Tuggit
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« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2013, 10:59:10 AM »

Steinam had a great rival in Amneris...

Sanabelle Island was like Larry Holmes, unbeatable at a time when there wasn't as stiff a competition for her...

Huge On The Road Again fan, Gallo Blue Chip had staying power...

Golden Receiver has faded in latter half of past two years against heavyweights, thats all he needs to prove to move up into rare air...Talent when right is unquestionable...

His trip Saturday was not easy because of a rank, on a line badly, Mr. hasani....

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« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2013, 11:03:47 AM »

anniecrombie

mini me
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Slim Russ
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« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2013, 11:05:19 AM »

Never saw Bye Bye Byrd, but Cardigan Bay is a good choice.  However, CB had the extreme advantage of having Stanley Dancer drive while many of the drivers Dancer faced were trainers with dubious driving ability.

Don't know how long this form spree will last, but I have to put Golden Receiver at the top of the charts.  Why?  Because his early speed makes it impossible to keep him out of the race (Cardigan Bay did NOT have great gate speed and could be the victim of racing luck) while GRs ability to accelerate in the strech after using his early speed is unique to this game.

So Golden Receiver is better than Cardigan Bay?

Golden Receiver won the Presidential twice, the Graduate, USPC and Haughton.

Cardigan Bay won, among many others, the Good Time Pace twice, the Nassau twice, the Dan Patch twice, the Provincial Cup twice, the Adios Butler twice, the National Pacing Championship, the National Pacing Derby, the Governor’s Cup, Bye Bye Byrd and Tar Heel. He beat Bret in the Pace of the Century. And he swept the International Pacing Series at a mile, mile and a quarter and mile and a half. Actually he won five times at a mile and a quarter, once at a mile and an eighth, three times at a mile and a half and once at two miles. He won 23 times on half-mile tracks. That’s on top of the 29 races—most of the high end stakes variety—that he won Down Under.

Give me a break. Golden Receiver?
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Psycho Dad
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« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2013, 12:01:55 PM »

So Golden Receiver is better than Cardigan Bay?

Golden Receiver won the Presidential twice, the Graduate, USPC and Haughton.

Cardigan Bay won, among many others, the Good Time Pace twice, the Nassau twice, the Dan Patch twice, the Provincial Cup twice, the Adios Butler twice, the National Pacing Championship, the National Pacing Derby, the Governor’s Cup, Bye Bye Byrd and Tar Heel. He beat Bret in the Pace of the Century. And he swept the International Pacing Series at a mile, mile and a quarter and mile and a half. Actually he won five times at a mile and a quarter, once at a mile and an eighth, three times at a mile and a half and once at two miles. He won 23 times on half-mile tracks. That’s on top of the 29 races—most of the high end stakes variety—that he won Down Under.

Give me a break. Golden Receiver?


I specifically said "form spree" for Golden Receiver.  A lot of less talented horses have had form sprees where their abilities were off the charts.  However during Golden Receiver's form spree we have seen him do things that I have never seen any other horse do.  During this spree, he may be the greatest horse ever.  Again, I say this because of what he can do at both the beginning and end of each mile.

My point is that Golden Receiver AT HIS BEST is the best I have ever seen.  Cardigan Bay was the best horse of his time for many years.  Let's see Golden Receiver hold his form all year before comparing the two for a body of work.
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jdizigg
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« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2013, 12:03:48 PM »

Brett Hanover  ive been told he was a beast

Artsplace  16 for 16

Mr Big was huge

Real Desire was pretty good
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Slim Russ
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« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2013, 12:40:34 PM »

I specifically said "form spree" for Golden Receiver.  A lot of less talented horses have had form sprees where their abilities were off the charts.  However during Golden Receiver's form spree we have seen him do things that I have never seen any other horse do.  During this spree, he may be the greatest horse ever.  Again, I say this because of what he can do at both the beginning and end of each mile.

My point is that Golden Receiver AT HIS BEST is the best I have ever seen.  Cardigan Bay was the best horse of his time for many years.  Let's see Golden Receiver hold his form all year before comparing the two for a body of work.

Cardy held his form into his twelfth year. I find it hard to believe that Golden Receiver will be racing at the highest level at twelve.
 
The only summer stakes GR has won are last year’s Haughton and USPC.

Cardy won his division twice and he’s a HOF Immortal. GR has never won his division.

At what level will GR be racing two years from now? When Cardigan Bay was ten he easily won the 100K mile and a half International Pace, costing YR 33K in minus pool money. He was then barred in the betting in the Good Time and National Pacing Championship, both of which he won handily. Then he beat Bret in the Pace of the Century at YR. Then he lost to Bret in the RR rematch. He then set a YR TR winning the Billy Direct. Dancer took him to Hollywood Park, where he had set the WR for an aged gelding, and he finished second behind True Duane in a race where he beat Bret. Back to Roosevelt for wins in the National Pacing Derby and Nassau.

All this when he was ten-years-old. Golden Receiver isn’t that kind of horse. GR makes his living in the winter and spring when the top dogs are sleeping. Cardy made his living beating the best.

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King Nothing
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« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2013, 12:55:17 PM »

Cam Fella should be in the discussion. Artsplace did it three years in a row.

So many to name and the 90's-2000's horses maybe need an asterick lol.   
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jdizigg
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« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2013, 01:03:36 PM »

Cam Fella should be in the discussion. Artsplace did it three years in a row.

So many to name and the 90's-2000's horses maybe need an asterick lol.   

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Vegas
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« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2013, 01:08:11 PM »

Sandra Lil~~ trotter trotter trotter
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Psycho Dad
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« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2013, 01:21:58 PM »

Brett Hanover  ive been told he was a beast

Artsplace  16 for 16

Mr Big was huge

Real Desire was pretty good

IMO, all the races Bret Hanover lost can be blamed on his driver.  Bret once set a world record for a mile -- unfortunately, the race was a mile and a sixteenth. When Cardigan Bay beat him at Yonkers, it was Dancer outdriving Ervin.  Then they went to Roosevelt for the rematch, and it was no contest.  In fact, Cardigan Bay finished third.  (Rex Pick with Carmine finished second)

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Take The Money And Run
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« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2013, 02:07:22 PM »

Brett Hanover  ive been told he was a beast

Artsplace  16 for 16

Mr Big was huge

Real Desire was pretty good

You were told correct about Bret. He was the best ever....for a lot of reasons
Would have been 68-68 if not for Frank Ervin
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Take The Money And Run
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« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2013, 02:53:53 PM »

"
My point is that Golden Receiver AT HIS BEST is the best I have ever seen. "

Really ? HE COULDNT STEP ON THE TRACK WITH DRAONS LAIR AMONG MANY MANY OTHERS


Who has he beaten in his carreer that was all that noteworty ? Hes not a top 30 horse ...but you as do many others see these gasssed up fast miles and somehow think that makes them so special. At his best ---he was the best ever Huh ( or you have seen )....you arent serious,,,,,,are you ?
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Vegas
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« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2013, 03:01:05 PM »

You were told correct about Bret. He was the best ever....for a lot of reasons
Would have been 68-68 if not for Frank Ervin
Might not have been that good of a race horse if not for Frank breaking and training~~ trotter
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Mel from Moline
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« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2013, 03:20:48 PM »

I have to think Staying Together has to be on that list. I agree with Cardigan Bay, but there are so many. Whoever made the comment about Golden Receiver being the best they ever saw must have a memory of 15 minutes. Great individual races and performances doesnt make a great horse. Western Shore has had unbelievably game miles going down the road beating Won the West , among others, but he wouldnt be considered one of the greatest ever. For those who can remember 5 years ago, how about the mile when Manhardt was almost brought to a stop then STILL circled a damn good field in the Presidential? That doesnt mean he's one of the all time greats either, but that was as amazing as it gets. There are SO many good ones who beat really good ones. For the mares, I think Annicrombie was just unreal, especially for the way she got treated during the Carver years... head shake. There is no shortage, and there is no consensus. Great post and topic.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 04:19:25 PM by Mel from Moline » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2013, 03:22:13 PM »

Sandra Lil is my favorite horse of all time but she was not better than Tarport Hap,Silk Stockings or Handle With Care.
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HarnessFanDE
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« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2013, 03:25:06 PM »

You were told correct about Bret. He was the best ever....for a lot of reasons
Would have been 68-68 if not for Frank Ervin

Frank Ervin was Herve Filion next to Pres Burris.....Pres was in the bottom 5% of all drivers ever......I couldn't even imagine how good Silk Stockings could have been with even an average driver
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 03:26:40 PM by HarnessFanDE » Report to moderator   Logged

SHOWTIME!!!
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« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2013, 03:26:22 PM »

Loyal Opposition merits a mention.
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I know one thing for sure.  Indecision may or may not be my problem.
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