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Author Topic: Should Sulkies be listed as Change of Equipment  (Read 809 times)
Orb
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« on: January 26, 2013, 11:42:15 AM »

Many times you see horses race with a different driver from one week to the next. Should the sulky be listed as (Change of Equipment) on the program if its a different sulky used than the previous start.    
« Last Edit: May 20, 2013, 05:29:01 AM by Orb » Report to moderator   Logged
sulkyfromouterspace
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« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2013, 11:45:59 AM »

yes,,,,it is a change of equipment.....except sulkies from outer space...
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cecil127
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« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2013, 11:48:45 AM »

someone please tell the oldness( geezer) to work on the schtick   doh

torture...pure unadulterated torturehead shake
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cecil127
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« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2013, 11:59:36 AM »

Many times you see horses race with a different driver from one week to the next. Should the sulky be listed as (Change of Equipment) on the program if its a different sulky used than the previous start. I was looking at some videos at www.sulkydynamics.com and I think the sulkies themselves could be a major factor in handicapping a race. 

i dont think its the bike so much as the driver and his experience in said bike thumbs up
would i like to see the equipment changes listed in the PP's?  sure.
would i ignore it by the time race 3 rolled around? probably Grin 
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PURPLE LAVERN
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« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2013, 12:14:00 PM »

Hes here all week try the veal
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cecil127
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« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2013, 12:16:24 PM »

Hes here all week try the veal

 thumbs up laughing guy thumbs up


......and boy my arms are tired head shake doh Grin
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clubhouse
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« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2013, 12:24:13 PM »

Many times you see horses race with a different driver from one week to the next. Should the sulky be listed as (Change of Equipment) on the program if its a different sulky used than the previous start. I was looking at some videos at www.sulkydynamics.com and I think the sulkies themselves could be a major factor in handicapping a race. 

How about listing whats in the needle ? And let us know if they won't be receiving one that night.
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PURPLE LAVERN
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« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2013, 12:24:38 PM »

You must have just flown in from the BIG M

 laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy

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PURPLE LAVERN
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« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2013, 12:25:21 PM »

How about listing whats in the needle ? And let us know if they won't be receiving one that night.

Only Ira gets that info
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the exactorman
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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2013, 12:25:54 PM »

I find them announcing bikes at the Big M useless information. I applaud them for providing the information however. IMO its useless because unless you record what bike was used last time, how would you know advantage versus disadvantage?
It would seem like a sports bettor being told a guy is going from a pine to maple bat in Baseball....if the guy can't hit...doesn't matter if he's holding a telephone pole....he still won't hit.....
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cecil127
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« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2013, 12:31:49 PM »

You must have just flown in from the BIG M

 laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy

yea i gotta tell ya (*in my best bob hope) that sulky he's like a sore dick i tell ya.  ya just cant beat him!
 laughing guy

now THATS funny stuff(*in my best jonny carson)

YES!!!! (in my best ed mcmahon)

 laughing guy

lets keep it rolling! thumbs up
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Dolfan
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« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2013, 12:43:03 PM »

I find them announcing bikes at the Big M useless information. I applaud them for providing the information however. IMO its useless because unless you record what bike was used last time, how would you know advantage versus disadvantage?
It would seem like a sports bettor being told a guy is going from a pine to maple bat in Baseball....if the guy can't hit...doesn't matter if he's holding a telephone pole....he still won't hit.....

Or like a QB wearing a glove on his throwing hand.  doh

Yes, it is a change of equipment.  List it.
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cecil127
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« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2013, 12:45:50 PM »

I find them announcing bikes at the Big M useless information. I applaud them for providing the information however. IMO its useless because unless you record what bike was used last time, how would you know advantage versus disadvantage?
It would seem like a sports bettor being told a guy is going from a pine to maple bat in Baseball....if the guy can't hit...doesn't matter if he's holding a telephone pole....he still won't hit.....

great anology thumbs up
gas house gorillas anyone?



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jdizigg
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« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2013, 12:52:26 PM »

Many times you see horses race with a different driver from one week to the next. Should the sulky be listed as (Change of Equipment) on the program if its a different sulky used than the previous start. I was looking at some videos at www.sulkydynamics.com and I think the sulkies themselves could be a major factor in handicapping a race. 

Sulkies are almost a NON FACTOR in handicapping... If you are using this angle you probably need not gamble...
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clubhouse
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« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2013, 12:55:50 PM »

Only Ira gets that info

It would also be helpful to know who received an envelope, so we know who will be greek dancing early. laughing guy
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clubhouse
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« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2013, 12:57:33 PM »

I find them announcing bikes at the Big M useless information. I applaud them for providing the information however. IMO its useless because unless you record what bike was used last time, how would you know advantage versus disadvantage?
It would seem like a sports bettor being told a guy is going from a pine to maple bat in Baseball....if the guy can't hit...doesn't matter if he's holding a telephone pole....he still won't hit.....

Did the cork in the bat really help Sammy ?
I agree with the bike info.
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burton
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« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2013, 12:59:00 PM »

Sulkies are almost a NON FACTOR in handicapping... If you are using this angle you probably need not gamble...
JD,

Could you interview the drivers on this issue (if you haven't already)
Obviously they go with the bike that is best but in the end, does anything rate higher than what's between the shafts?
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jdizigg
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« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2013, 01:09:20 PM »

JD,

Could you interview the drivers on this issue (if you haven't already)
Obviously they go with the bike that is best but in the end, does anything rate higher than what's between the shafts?

Great idea Burt.  Will do that next week. Places like the bigm everybody uses the best bikes its really laughable when someone throws it out as handicapping.  I'm sure it makes a VERY small difference.
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Dolfan
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« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2013, 01:38:25 PM »

Great idea Burt.  Will do that next week. Places like the bigm everybody uses the best bikes its really laughable when someone throws it out as handicapping.  I'm sure it makes a VERY small difference.

You can say that BUT when a horse wins or races well & the trainer makes an equipment change the horse drops a notch in my handicapping.  I am of the belief that if it ain't broken, don't fix it.   

Are you suggesting that going from a ksb bridle to open bridle or adding a murphy blind is more important to the bettor?
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jdizigg
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« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2013, 01:47:15 PM »

You can say that BUT when a horse wins or races well & the trainer makes an equipment change the horse drops a notch in my handicapping.  I am of the belief that if it ain't broken, don't fix it.   

Are you suggesting that going from a ksb bridle to open bridle or adding a murphy blind is more important to the bettor?
[/quot


No.. im saying unless your going from a single shaft sulkey to UFO you don't need the info its useless esp at the meadowlands
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dinkadoo
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« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2013, 03:54:32 PM »

I find them announcing bikes at the Big M useless information. I applaud them for providing the information however. IMO its useless because unless you record what bike was used last time, how would you know advantage versus disadvantage?
It would seem like a sports bettor being told a guy is going from a pine to maple bat in Baseball....if the guy can't hit...doesn't matter if he's holding a telephone pole....he still won't hit.....

you may think it was useless, but for a short time, they kept stats on their websites,,,, and the numbers didn't lie.

I say it should be programmed and kept as a record.... Again why would giving information to the customer for them to decide to take into account or not make sense ?
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jdizigg
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« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2013, 04:01:05 PM »

I agree that the info should be available but anybody seriously putting stock into it is wasting there time...
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Racetrackdaddy
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« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2013, 10:18:55 PM »

There was a time in the 1970's when the modified sulkey came into being and they noted it on the pp's as either modified or conventional. Then came the Super BIke and added one more designation. Today they have so many bikes that it would drive the charter and paddock judge crazy. I personally have written to have these bikes listed in the pp's but I will never hold my breath until it comes into being.

This sport is on life-support and when the state's take away the slot/table games revenue from the racing and breeding funds, you can see racing only at the county fairs and a very few tracks. The whole gaming experience is going through a phase as many more states are opening up new slot palors and table games casinos. There is only so much money to go around and in many states, their very own daily lottery revenues are declining.

With the bike issue to be addressed and to leave other issues like medication testing and confliciting rules that govern this sport from jurisdiction to jusrisdiction seems illogical. Standardize all the rules of racing and medications testing throughout North America and make just one license that is accepted throughout the sport. Then maybe we could address the bike listings in the program issue.
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« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2013, 10:45:03 PM »

I think they should be listed as equipment changes.

What Scott does at Calexpo in his picks he states what bike will be on a horse.
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Orb
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« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2013, 05:53:07 AM »

 If a horse has a UFO hooked to him one week with a top notch driver and races well, the next week the horse has a an old Tel Star and a top notch driver, should you then expect they same performance as the week before. Then what should you expect with an average driver using the old Tel Star. I think the older sulky will hinder both drivers. And that hindrance would be magnified if everyone else was using a UFO or similar modern sulky.   
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« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2013, 06:34:53 AM »

When the Joe King Signature Sulky (Modified Sulky) was introduced at the conclusion of the Yonkers meet and into the Roosevelt meet at the tail end of 1975 the OTB bettors screamed bloody murder because the tracks refused to list which sulky would be used in the program or on the OTB entry list. At that time the contrast between the King and Nassau modified bikes and the traditional Jerald and Houghton wooden bikes was huge.
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« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2013, 10:12:15 AM »

Of course its an equipment change and should be listed.  How come they can chart bridle changes and not sulky changes?

The Meadowlands does a good job with sulky stats in the program, but that does not go far enough.  They announce the sulky when the horse post parades, but not the sulky the horse used the race before -- and that is all that matters -- the change.
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« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2013, 05:48:04 PM »

when the M1 announcer announces the sulkies, i shrug my shoulders and say "what good does this do me, i dont have time to note all the sulkies from previous weeks"

All i care about is if its a CHANGE. Meadowlands should do the leg work for the fans and list sulky changes, tell us if its a change or not.

Is anyone from the M1 reading this or listening?Huh??
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« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2013, 07:25:08 PM »

Of course its an equipment change and should be listed.  How come they can chart bridle changes and not sulky changes?

I said the same thing.  As for the comment that it is useless in handicapping, I totally disagree.  I find shoe changes, murphy blinds, hopple length & bridle changes useful but not as useful as a bike change.

And it depends on the trainer too.  One of the easiest ways to stiff a horse is put him in a bike that he doesn't fit or slap on a piece of equipment (could be a shadow roll or martingale or a jawbreaker bit) that annoys him.
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cecil127
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« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2013, 09:11:22 AM »

Psycho Dad and hungry both hit the nail on the head....
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« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2013, 09:28:02 AM »

If a horse has a UFO hooked to him one week with a top notch driver and races well, the next week the horse has a an old Tel Star and a top notch driver, should you then expect they same performance as the week before. Then what should you expect with an average driver using the old Tel Star. I think the older sulky will hinder both drivers. And that hindrance would be magnified if everyone else was using a UFO or similar modern sulky.   

Good questions.  The point is that we should have the information available so we can make our own decisions.
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