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Author Topic: ILL Derby  (Read 876 times)
STIVO
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« on: January 23, 2013, 12:24:36 AM »

http://www.drf.com/events/road-kentucky-derby-churchill-downs

Why is the ILL Derby not included as at least a 10 point race for the Kentucky Derby? Is it being run this year? If so, why was it left out? Some very good horses have won this race through the last decade and have done well in TC races.
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mel4600
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« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2013, 12:32:15 AM »

Should be a 50 point race. This has to be a misprint. They have Tampa Bay races in there for 50 points.
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Trainer Rusty
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« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2013, 01:00:42 AM »

This is true.  Cdi trying to stick it to hawthorne.  Thats the obvious reason.
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journalstuff
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« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2013, 01:12:46 AM »

Wont it be included for next year though?
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jrstark
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« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2013, 02:28:31 AM »

Long story, here's one of the more recent recaps:
http://blogs.courier-journal.com/horsebiz/2012/11/29/the-road-to-the-kentucky-derby-goes-through-cook-circuit-court-in-chicago/
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Red Ketcher
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« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2013, 06:57:12 AM »

 
  Mr. Hall's point on interest and attendance in the above article is on target. 

  Big crowds and big excitement elsewhere,
 
  3,700 for an ILL Derby vs  60,000 at ARK Derby
 
 Have attended Ark, Tampa Bay, Florida , and Ill Derbies and first thing notices in Illinois is that there is   nobody there. 

 Why ? was aways the question.
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mel4600
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« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2013, 07:33:59 AM »

Well it is a sad state of affairs for Illinois racing if winning the Illinois Derby does nothing to get you closer to the Kentucky Derby. The graded races that were eliminated should look at running those races closer to the proximity of the Kentucky Derby which may take some of the horses out of the equation. Running for $500,000 + against a smaller weaker field than the 20 running in the cavalry charge in the Derby would be an attractive alternative. If you can get several of the other outcasts on the same page I believe it would attract a lot of interest in where trainers ship their horses. Its been an unwritten rule that the big 3 year old races are not run near the Kentucky Derby so that earnings could qualify you to run there.

As far as attendance goes for the Illinois Derby, I believe it is not properly promoted. It should not be to difficult to get 10,000 at least to attend with the size of the surrounding market. 
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Earl Sande
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« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2013, 07:52:56 AM »


As far as attendance goes for the Illinois Derby, I believe it is not properly promoted. It should not be to difficult to get 10,000 at least to attend with the size of the surrounding market. 

When was the last time they had a crowd of 10,000 at Hawthorne?
To get 5000 people there, they'd have to have a flea market, dancing girls, and Selena.
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orioles
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« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2013, 08:57:50 AM »

Lucky if we get 10,000 actual people for the Million not those bogus inflated att. numbers
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Scav
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« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2013, 09:06:14 AM »

Lucky if we get 10,000 actual people for the Million not those bogus inflated att. numbers

I don't know about that.....I have friends that come from Ireland every other year to see the Arlington Million and Hawthorne has never had as many people in their plant then on a Million Day.
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orioles
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« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2013, 09:56:19 AM »

I don't know about that.....I have friends that come from Ireland every other year to see the Arlington Million and Hawthorne has never had as many people in their plant then on a Million Day.
Just kidding , it does draw a big crowd , but not like it should or use to.
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STIVO
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« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2013, 10:18:47 AM »

Maybe the ILL Derby should be run at AP. It should be a prep for the Belmont. Run it the 2nd week of the meet after the Kentucky Derby. Big crowds will come. Unfortunately, HAW will have to be a "cheap" track. Claimers and ILL breds. Thoughts?
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2013, 11:30:02 AM »


  Mr. Hall's point on interest and attendance in the above article is on target. 

There are plenty of races on the schedule that don't generate crowds much larger than what Haw gets for the IL Derby. For instance the Lecomte race that just ran at FG never seems to attract all that many. The race at Sunland Park attracts a nice crowd but no 60,000. Some of the lesser preps at places like Santa Anita don't pull a great crowd. The Derby Trial at Churchill is hardly a giant crowd event.
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2013, 11:32:32 AM »

Maybe the ILL Derby should be run at AP. It should be a prep for the Belmont. Run it the 2nd week of the meet after the Kentucky Derby. Big crowds will come. Unfortunately, HAW will have to be a "cheap" track. Claimers and ILL breds. Thoughts?

The name Illinois Derby belongs to Hawthorne, or Sportsman's. And I doubt AP would want to do it anyhow. They seem to have a plan to spend close to $0 on stakes early in their season. And they don't get the 60,000 crowds for any of their non-Million stakes either.
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
beobob
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« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2013, 12:02:33 PM »

Technology (ADW) has pretty much been the straw that broke the attendance back for Hawthorne. With its less than optimum location and aging (at best) facility, there is no reason for bettors to go there other than maybe to hang out with friends in the Gold Cup Room.  It is not a draw for live attenders.  I brought a friend to watch our horse run and when we were driving home he asked why anyone would go there because you have to watch the race and odds (the tote board was not working) on TV.  Promotion can get people to come the first time, but the experience of that first time will bring them back or keep them away.  HAW is essential for Illinois racing and can be lucrative for all if they can find a niche they can thrive in. Maybe it's October, November, April night racing. Maybe off day racing. I don't think it is 5 day racing head to head with the big boys, but maybe it's that.

As for the Illinois Derby, I'm sure that CDI didn't bend over backwards to do HAW any favors, but national horsemen made this race an also ran in Derby preps years ago, CDI didn't. 
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mel4600
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« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2013, 03:17:12 PM »

When was the last time they had a crowd of 10,000 at Hawthorne?
To get 5000 people there, they'd have to have a flea market, dancing girls, and Selena.

If they can't promote 10,000 for attendance then Illinois should give up on horse racing.
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Secretariat
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« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2013, 03:27:27 PM »

the first week in aoril usually sees a hight emp of about 38, and drizlly nasty skies.

the weather is as much to do with the attendance as anything..that and the contempt for horse racing most have in chicago for gambling. most are transplants in the city now who stil think al capone has a bar somewhere form where he controls the gambling and liquor. fact is liquor is controlled by the wirtz family in a very real way...no al capone anymore. anyone who had any ties to the north side has long left.


J9 once again to censor...
J9 they are a proud people...dont ya know,,,or perhaps YOU do know
either you are for them, or against them, for them - might as well be them.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 12:47:01 PM by Secretariat » Report to moderator   Logged

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NiatrossJumps
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« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2013, 12:14:35 AM »

Your 100% right about the weather. I laugh when they compare it to Arkansas and Santa Anita, both stakes are run about 25-35 degrees warmer than Hawthorne (though that  number might be going down the next decade or two). It is obvious though Churchill just decided to "stick it" to the Ill. Derby. That is the critical reason nothing more, has NOTHING to do with attendance or how much ice cream was sold that day.
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Earl Sande
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« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2013, 10:12:46 AM »

The name Illinois Derby belongs to Hawthorne, or Sportsman's.

Well actually, the first IL Derby was at Aurora.
Winner was Case Ace, and no I wasn't there.
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Earl Sande
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« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2013, 10:14:57 AM »

If they can't promote 10,000 for attendance then Illinois should give up on horse racing.


I think you're onto something here, Mel.
Other posters also make a good point that the chances of nice weather at Hawthorne in early April are about 100-1.
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