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Author Topic: Question for gamblers re: IRS signers  (Read 1475 times)
nextbonus
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« on: January 20, 2013, 09:22:22 PM »

Although I've been "playing the horses" for 50 years, I am primarily a racing fan and not a big gambler.  Small handle, conservative wagers.  I mostly bet  win and exactas.  I consider myself more of a recreational player as opposed to a serious gambler.

Due to the nature of my normal wagering, I haven't had a signer for many years.  But Friday night I hit the late P-4 at Woodbine for 20 cents.  Invested $10.80 and got back $1210.82.  So I had to sign.

What do I do now in regard to preparing for the IRS? 

Any help will be appreciated. 
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Mr_Ed
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« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2013, 09:29:08 PM »

Do you itemize your taxes?

BTW......nice hit!!
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cecil127
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« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2013, 09:36:54 PM »

save your losing tickets.  you wont have to figure it in til next years taxes (april 2014)
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Herve Filion
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« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2013, 09:43:27 PM »

Although I've been "playing the horses" for 50 years, I am primarily a racing fan and not a big gambler.  Small handle, conservative wagers.  I mostly bet  win and exactas.  I consider myself more of a recreational player as opposed to a serious gambler.

Due to the nature of my normal wagering, I haven't had a signer for many years.  But Friday night I hit the late P-4 at Woodbine for 20 cents.  Invested $10.80 and got back $1210.82.  So I had to sign.

What do I do now in regard to preparing for the IRS? 

Any help will be appreciated. 
You can deduct your gambling losses from your winnings.
1. Keep a daily log with notes.
2. Save your programs with losing tickets.
IRS agents are pretty smart with this issue, so keep it accurate !!
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newjackcity
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« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2013, 09:45:43 PM »

save your losing tickets.  you wont have to figure it in til next years taxes (april 2014)
Along with the programs.
Internet wagering has simplified the process...
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Sea Biscuit
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« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2013, 09:54:24 PM »

Although I've been "playing the horses" for 50 years, I am primarily a racing fan and not a big gambler.  Small handle, conservative wagers.  I mostly bet  win and exactas.  I consider myself more of a recreational player as opposed to a serious gambler.

Due to the nature of my normal wagering, I haven't had a signer for many years.  But Friday night I hit the late P-4 at Woodbine for 20 cents.  Invested $10.80 and got back $1210.82.  So I had to sign.

What do I do now in regard to preparing for the IRS? 

Any help will be appreciated. 

Nice hit Mr Bonus. thumbs up
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nextbonus
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« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2013, 10:55:11 PM »

Thanks, everyone.  medal

If I deduct a portion of my losses against my winnings, does "proof" have to be submitted at the time of filing taxes?  Or only if audited?

I saved all my programs and recorded every wager I made from 1971 through 1995.  But with the advent of simulcasting, the process became to tedious.  I'm not really interested in revisiting that if I can possibly avoid it.

I do not itemize. 

Anyone can pick up tickets and programs off the ground/tables.  That's proof?

And like with Woodbine Friday.  I had no physical program.  I downloaded it, studied it online, and took notes on a 3x5 piece of paper.  I wasn't going to print out 37 pages and drag it out to OTB with both Maywood and Meadowlands racing.

I don't have an online betting account.  Maybe I should consider it.  I just like to go out to the track or OTB and hang out.  No real interest in betting from home.

I'm so old school, I've never sent or receieved a text message.

Finally.  Let's say I do everything right.  What if the IRS doesn't believe me?  Would I have to pay a penalty of some sort?

 dunno
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newjackcity
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« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2013, 11:17:10 PM »

Thanks, everyone.  medal

If I deduct a portion of my losses against my winnings, does "proof" have to be submitted at the time of filing taxes?  Or only if audited?

I saved all my programs and recorded every wager I made from 1971 through 1995.  But with the advent of simulcasting, the process became to tedious.  I'm not really interested in revisiting that if I can possibly avoid it.

I do not itemize. 

Anyone can pick up tickets and programs off the ground/tables.  That's proof?

And like with Woodbine Friday.  I had no physical program.  I downloaded it, studied it online, and took notes on a 3x5 piece of paper.  I wasn't going to print out 37 pages and drag it out to OTB with both Maywood and Meadowlands racing.

I don't have an online betting account.  Maybe I should consider it.  I just like to go out to the track or OTB and hang out.  No real interest in betting from home.

I'm so old school, I've never sent or receieved a text message.

Finally.  Let's say I do everything right.  What if the IRS doesn't believe me?  Would I have to pay a penalty of some sort?

 dunno
Only if auditied.
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Mr_Ed
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« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2013, 11:41:43 PM »


I do not itemize. 


Then you add that W2-G to your income and pay taxes on it.

No deductions.
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MR.DALRAE
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« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2013, 11:44:54 PM »

ITS COUNTED AS INCOME ON THE FIRST PAGES OF THE TAX SHEET,,,,,,,,,,,THEN CAN BE DEDUCTED AS LOSSES ON THE 2ND PAGE FOR A BALANCE OF ZERO,,,,,,,%OF BEING AUDITED ARE MINIMAL AT BEST,,,NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT,,,,,,THE IRS IS LOOKING FOR THE GUYS W/100 S OF SIGN JOBS,,,,CALLED 10%ERS NOT GUYS W/1 OR 2 SIGNERS
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clubhouse
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« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2013, 11:48:52 PM »

Thanks, everyone.  medal

If I deduct a portion of my losses against my winnings, does "proof" have to be submitted at the time of filing taxes?  Or only if audited?

I saved all my programs and recorded every wager I made from 1971 through 1995.  But with the advent of simulcasting, the process became to tedious.  I'm not really interested in revisiting that if I can possibly avoid it.

I do not itemize. 

Anyone can pick up tickets and programs off the ground/tables.  That's proof?

And like with Woodbine Friday.  I had no physical program.  I downloaded it, studied it online, and took notes on a 3x5 piece of paper.  I wasn't going to print out 37 pages and drag it out to OTB with both Maywood and Meadowlands racing.

I don't have an online betting account.  Maybe I should consider it.  I just like to go out to the track or OTB and hang out.  No real interest in betting from home.

I'm so old school, I've never sent or receieved a text message.

Finally.  Let's say I do everything right.  What if the IRS doesn't believe me?  Would I have to pay a penalty of some sort?

 dunno

They have told me in the past that they want losing tickets of the same type of play. If you pick up losing tickets from the floor or table, look for pick4 tickets.
Nice return on a $10 play. thumbs up
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MR.DALRAE
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« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2013, 11:51:23 PM »

YES ,,GREAT HIT,,,BUT ANY EXOCTIC TIX WILL DO
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Mr_Ed
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« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2013, 11:54:17 PM »

ITS COUNTED AS INCOME ON THE FIRST PAGES OF THE TAX SHEET,,,,,,,,,,,THEN CAN BE DEDUCTED AS LOSSES ON THE 2ND PAGE FOR A BALANCE OF ZERO,,,,,,,%OF BEING AUDITED ARE MINIMAL AT BEST,,,NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT,,,,,,THE IRS IS LOOKING FOR THE GUYS W/100 S OF SIGN JOBS,,,,CALLED 10%ERS NOT GUYS W/1 OR 2 SIGNERS

Here's the form........please explain where you deduct winnings:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040.pdf
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2013, 12:00:40 AM »

Holy crap way to go on twent cents yahoooo!
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nextbonus
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« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2013, 12:33:17 AM »

Thanks, again, for the information and congrats.  BTWers are THE BESTEST
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Sea Biscuit
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« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2013, 02:44:43 AM »

Thanks, again, for the information and congrats.  BTWers are THE BESTEST

Its too bad you have to share your winnings with Uncle Sam.

As you prolly know Canadians don't have to. Just sayin.
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pigland1
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« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2013, 07:42:25 AM »

Here's the form........please explain where you deduct winnings:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040.pdf
line 40,USE  schedual A
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HarnessFanDE
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« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2013, 08:44:49 AM »

The big misconception is that you can just wrote of losses against winnings, you can only do that is you itemize deductions, if you take the standard deduction you cant take off the losses, you used to be able to deduct the losses right on the face of the 1040 form but they moved it to schedule A (my guess is 10 years ago) so if you dont have enough other deductions to itemize you are screwed, another way the IRS has said thank you to the horseplayers.
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SHOWTIME!!!
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« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2013, 08:55:12 AM »

If you are wagering through an ADW you are fortunate.  You can get from them a year end report which will show how much you had won and lost during the year.  The IRS would have a hard time discounting this document whereas loose tickets you have a real problem because as you said, anyone can pick up tickets and say they wagerd.

As others said, the chance of an audit is small unless you are trying to write off a $100K Pick-4, but best to have your ducks in ordder ahead of time.l
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Illinois sucks
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« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2013, 11:54:16 AM »

It is too bad we have to share with Uncle Sam and I think that is one of many issues that dog horse racing.  Imagine if they raised the bar to 5,000 for a buck instead of 600.  I think you would increase handle that way alone.  Canada you don't have to pay taxes on any big exotic hits.  There is a percentage taken out of those tri's, pick 3's,4's,5's and other exotics.  The percentage goes back into the purse account.  Found that out last Feb. on my first visit to Woodbine and hit a nice tri.  Was surprise by the government not getting a piece.  Wish that was the take here in America.
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Mr_Ed
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« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2013, 12:01:39 PM »

Following targeted lobbying from the National Thoroughbred Racing Association, "Fiscal Cliff" legislation passed Jan. 1 by both the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives contained language that exempts wagering losses from being subject to the newly enacted limitation on itemized deductions.

Read more on BloodHorse.com: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/75319/no-tax-code-changes-on-gambling-deductions#ixzz2Id8hrPK4

Yup.  Remember when you could deduct credit card interest?

They wanted to nuke, or at least limit itemizing gambling loses.
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MR.DALRAE
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« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2013, 03:24:20 PM »

PIG ,,YOU ARE CORRECT LINE 40,,,SCHED A
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swaymi
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« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2013, 01:37:31 AM »

Cmon Next Bonus you had horse's with Joe the Knife and im sure you had plenty of winnings while with him and your telling us You don't know about deductions on Taxes? Cmon!!!!    Who was your Accountant?  dunno dunno dunno
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ThePaceMaker
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« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2013, 03:00:30 AM »

Even on feature days you have to sign? At breeders cup I hit for 1200 n buddy hit hit 4300 tri neither had to sign, obv bc of massive amount of ppl and bets/payouts we were small end, can anyone confirm if u have to sign for bets in the 1-5k range on hambo day or breeders crown days?
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nextbonus
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« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2013, 03:07:36 AM »

Cmon Next Bonus you had horse's with Joe the Knife and im sure you had plenty of winnings while with him and your telling us You don't know about deductions on Taxes? Cmon!!!!    Who was your Accountant?  dunno dunno dunno

I'm not a real gambler.  I'm neither proud nor ashamed of that fact.  And I very rarely bet my own horses.  I simply have never been a big bettor.  Before, during or after I had horses with Anderson.   Biggest bet in my life was $100 to win on Bingo Johnnie in the Orange and Blue at Sportsman's.  My yearly handle is a week's worth for Racetrack Phil.   

I owned a mare (Pacific Flight N) who won 70% of her starts in Chicago over a 4 year period.  Was 9 for 10 at Maywood and 10 for 10 betting cuz her entrymate, Columbia Nipper, won the only race she didn't win.  And I made NOTHING betting her.

Call me stupid.   nyah
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ThePaceMaker
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« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2013, 04:59:04 AM »

I could see not feeling the need to bet your own horse, you already have so much tied into it that a moderate bet seems insignificant.. Besides, I'm sure a lot of ppl have bet on their own horse for awhile, lost, stopped betting n then the horse wins @ 30:1 n they don't have a dime on it. Just like getting locked out on a bet that pays huge.
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Homestretch
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« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2013, 09:33:25 AM »

They have told me in the past that they want losing tickets of the same type of play. If you pick up losing tickets from the floor or table, look for pick4 tickets.
Nice return on a $10 play. thumbs up
Don't give an IRS agent tickets with footprints on them.
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swaymi
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« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2013, 10:08:04 AM »

I'm not a real gambler.  I'm neither proud nor ashamed of that fact.  And I very rarely bet my own horses.  I simply have never been a big bettor.  Before, during or after I had horses with Anderson.   Biggest bet in my life was $100 to win on Bingo Johnnie in the Orange and Blue at Sportsman's.  My yearly handle is a week's worth for Racetrack Phil.   

I owned a mare (Pacific Flight N) who won 70% of her starts in Chicago over a 4 year period.  Was 9 for 10 at Maywood and 10 for 10 betting cuz her entrymate, Columbia Nipper, won the only race she didn't win.  And I made NOTHING betting her.

Call me stupid.   nyah

I never said betting or You were stupid all I said is when you had horses with Joe the knife everyvody knows they did really well so I'm sure you had winnings from them winning all those races. So I'm sure you had Training Bills, Vet Bills, Blacksmith bills, etc etc that you could rite off. Its the same with Gambling  you can right the winnings off the only diffrence is you can only right off as much as your winning in gambling where in horses you can right off the whole investment. For Example if you spend 200,000 in horseflesh and they make lets say 275,000 so it looks like your 75,000 in the plus but then you can right off 50,000 in training bills, 15000 in vet bills then say 7500 in blacksmith bills. so right there your only 2500 winner but then you have other bills like shipping, turnouts,etc etc and in all honesty you lost money the first year. so on your taxes it will give you a negative if you owned the horse.  Now in gambling if you sign lets say 42000 in signers but everybody knows that 95% of horse bettors lose their _sses year in and year out and even though they lose lets say 75000 the IRS will only let them claim that they lost 42000 to even out, which I think is  BSmeter. I don't agree with that but it is what it is. (I hate that qoute too).
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Psycho Dad
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« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2013, 10:16:00 AM »

There is really no such thing as "The IRS will" or "The IRS won't."

To be specific, the individual IRS agent will or won't.  The agents work on guidelines and interpret laws differently.  When you run into a bonehead, you have the right to go to court.

I had a friend who rant into an agent who would not accept horse expenses against horse earnings.  My friend could have fought him in court, instead he decided never to buy another horse.
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burton
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« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2013, 04:29:30 PM »

Although I've been "playing the horses" for 50 years, I am primarily a racing fan and not a big gambler.  Small handle, conservative wagers.  I mostly bet  win and exactas.  I consider myself more of a recreational player as opposed to a serious gambler.

Due to the nature of my normal wagering, I haven't had a signer for many years.  But Friday night I hit the late P-4 at Woodbine for 20 cents.  Invested $10.80 and got back $1210.82.  So I had to sign.

What do I do now in regard to preparing for the IRS? 

Any help will be appreciated. 
Congrats Bill!
Hope you have many more.
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