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Author Topic: "Get a room already" was NOT STARTED BY EQUIFORCE  (Read 5009 times)
fuzzypants
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« Reply #75 on: January 21, 2013, 11:41:07 PM »

Right over the edge.
Uh oh disabled trouble maker touched a nerve their tilted and twisted? laughing guy
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« Reply #76 on: January 22, 2013, 10:11:58 AM »

Not necessarily Terry.  Vets don't want to test horses.  Atleast thats my understanding.  I had wanted one tested and was told I was overreacting and I should just wait and see how the horse was the next day...As it turned out he was fine.  But getting one tested, short of being deemed paranoid, isn't an easy task.  And then I was told even a positive test does not mean the horse actually has the virus..?  There seems to be a lot of "gray" areas when dealing with this.  Personally, I'm not good with gray.  I've always been a black/white kinda girl...I would much rather have a horse tested, my expense, than "wait" to see how he progresses. 
Okay....back to the bickering...lol
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« Reply #77 on: January 22, 2013, 12:07:39 PM »




     I asked a track vet why they would not want to test these horses before they leave Hawthorne or before they come here to FP. She in turn asked Dr Folker and her reply was that testing could result in false positives and could start the quarantine process all over again. Doesn't do much for the comfort factor among all of us.
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« Reply #78 on: January 22, 2013, 12:11:03 PM »



     I asked a track vet why they would not want to test these horses before they leave Hawthorne or before they come here to FP. She in turn asked Dr Folker and her reply was that testing could result in false positives and could start the quarantine process all over again. Doesn't do much for the comfort factor among all of us.

They have said all along that the test produces too many false positives, which is why they didn't just "test them all" in the first place.
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sporthorse
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« Reply #79 on: January 22, 2013, 12:21:35 PM »



    Yes that we all know. Their protocol on testing was never performed status quo. Run a fever? no test  Neurological? test Run a fever? test. It changed constantly. As if it was at the whim of the vets attitude that day. With positives still being reported at the end of December I just would feel better about the whole thing if the horses that ship in here have a negative test certificate with them. That's just me tho I'm kinda over protective that way.
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Equiforce
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« Reply #80 on: January 23, 2013, 12:09:01 AM »

Well, stidham tested his horses in an effort to ship horses out and had several positives. (At the end of dec.)  if they were false positives, why were they moved to the quarantine barn.  What exactly is the criteria to determine false positive from real positive ?

Did Dr. Faulkner also inform your vet that testing prior to leaving stable gate could result in a "real" positive...or were they really just focused on the false positive angle ? 

Once again.  Irresponsible protocol.

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jrstark
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« Reply #81 on: January 23, 2013, 02:16:41 AM »

What exactly is the criteria to determine false positive from real positive ?

Neurological symptoms. They are more conservative when there has been exposure to others with neurological symptoms or confirmed cases.

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Alpha Mare
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« Reply #82 on: January 23, 2013, 10:58:00 AM »

A horse from a NJ stable who attended an 'A'  hunter/ jumper show in  lower NY over 3 days in Dec, has tested positive.....some local barns here in upstate NY attended this show as well....our local vets are saying to take temps daily and watch for signs of neurological problems....it's hurry up and wait.....do not take any horse off your property or bring any on if you had horses attend that show. The NJ horse last we heard is alive and not showing any nerve issues at the moment, altho we have not heard if any of that barn's other horses are ill yet...let's hope he doesn't.
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Absolutely amazing.......s.m.h.....
honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #83 on: January 23, 2013, 10:58:11 AM »

Well, stidham tested his horses in an effort to ship horses out and had several positives. (At the end of dec.)  if they were false positives, why were they moved to the quarantine barn.  What exactly is the criteria to determine false positive from real positive ?

Did Dr. Faulkner also inform your vet that testing prior to leaving stable gate could result in a "real" positive...or were they really just focused on the false positive angle ? 

Once again.  Irresponsible protocol.

It seems to me that if the State vet doesn't want to spend taxpayer money to test horses shipping out of Hawthorne and that's irresponsible, then so are the inactions of all the private vets Sporthorse told us above don't want to test horses.

So what is a responsible barn to do? For instance, what is your barn doing, Equiforce, about that horse that must ship to Kentucky for medical care, to ensure that it ships off the backside with a recent negative test on its resume?
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Equiforce
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« Reply #84 on: January 23, 2013, 03:52:27 PM »

#1 I feel no obligation to explain to you what my barn is doing.  That is between us and our vet and the state. 

My future questions will be addressed to : Horsemen Only......

#2 it's rather difficult for the State vet to test horses, brazenly throwing away tax dollars, when she is not present.

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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #85 on: January 23, 2013, 04:53:24 PM »

#1 I feel no obligation to explain to you what my barn is doing.  That is between us and our vet and the state.  

It's a question of responsibility and irresponsibility. You certainly feel empowered to pass public judgement on what you see as the failings of all others, so you should certainly also be setting the public example.

Negative test on that horse before it ships, or not?

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#2 it's rather difficult for the State vet to test horses, brazenly throwing away tax dollars, when she is not present.

Understood. So the question to the responsible barn is, what are you doing to ensure any horse you ship out has a negative EHV-1 test?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 04:55:17 PM by honest & balanced terry » Report to moderator   Logged

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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #86 on: February 05, 2013, 12:38:52 AM »


So, in regard to whether or not the State vets made an "irresponsible" decision deciding what they did when they did about ending the quarantine, have there been any more cases of herpes confirmed, at Haw or elsewhere due to a horse that left Hawthorne, since the State called off the quarantine, or not?
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« Reply #87 on: February 05, 2013, 09:41:42 AM »

So, in regard to whether or not the State vets made an "irresponsible" decision deciding what they did when they did about ending the quarantine, have there been any more cases of herpes confirmed, at Haw or elsewhere due to a horse that left Hawthorne, since the State called off the quarantine, or not?

No. But the cynics will tell you it's because there is no state vet on site and not to believe that it's under control. I tend to take a more optimistic view. I guess we'll see.
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« Reply #88 on: February 05, 2013, 11:32:19 AM »

No. But the cynics will tell you it's because there is no state vet on site and not to believe that it's under control. I tend to take a more optimistic view. I guess we'll see.

I think we have reason to be optimistic.  Whether a state vet is on site or not, the fact that we have not heard reports of any deaths or very ill horses can only be considered good news. Knock on something.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #89 on: February 05, 2013, 12:20:41 PM »

I think we have reason to be optimistic.  Whether a state vet is on site or not, the fact that we have not heard reports of any deaths or very ill horses can only be considered good news. Knock on something.

Not to mention, private vets (the good, honest, responsible ones, I mean, not the kind trainers we don't like employ) can certainly recognize herpes-like symptoms without any State vet in the immediate vicinity.
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
brivolta
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« Reply #90 on: February 05, 2013, 02:23:45 PM »

I think we have reason to be optimistic.  Whether a state vet is on site or not, the fact that we have not heard reports of any deaths or very ill horses can only be considered good news. Knock on something.

I agree and I said almost this exact same thing on facebook but was politely admonished.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #91 on: February 05, 2013, 03:35:11 PM »

I agree and I said almost this exact same thing on facebook but was politely admonished.

Unfortunately, some parties have seized upon this outbreak to pursue other agendas. It's in their interests to keep the noise and fear level as high as possible for a long as possible.

However, the proof will be in the pudding - more cases, or not more cases. Simple as that.
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beobob
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« Reply #92 on: February 05, 2013, 04:26:07 PM »

Unfortunately, some parties have seized upon this outbreak to pursue other agendas. It's in their interests to keep the noise and fear level as high as possible for a long as possible.


What party gains anything from noise and fear? I assume you're taking a shot at Equiforce, but all she wants to do is get out of here and take her horses to Florida with her. Noise and fear make that impossible.  I guess it could be argued that Hawthorne benefits somewhat if horses have to stay here to run, but it also will keep horses away from their new and improved Illinois Derby so I don't see noise and fear as a win for them.  It's not good for evil trainers because better horses that would run elsewhere have to stay, and it's already been proven that numbskulls ship horses in to run even when horses are dropping dead. Noise and fear doesn't help them.  Mr D and AP? They must be behind it. But wait, the longer this drags on the better chance it has to effect their summer meet.  Noise and fear is no good for them. The ITHA needs this over.  Noise and fear keeps a light shining on their competency.

Who's left? Only the state and the vets.  Are you saying that the state is doing this to remain relevant, and that the vets are using this tragedy to make money?  I am shocked that you would make such a sweeping accusation without concrete proof.

 sarcasm... added for those who haven't been paying attention to the thousands of posts in all of these threads.
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Equiforce
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« Reply #93 on: February 05, 2013, 04:41:08 PM »

So true, Bob.....but we have to also take in to consideration that certain individuals on this forum have ALOT more experience in NOISE......

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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #94 on: February 05, 2013, 10:16:35 PM »

What party gains anything from noise and fear?

Those keeping it up.

Those with something to gain by FP horses staying stuck at Haw, for instance. Those whose blind unreasoning anger or selfish opportunism has turned this into an opportunity to try and tear down Hawthorne, the Spring meet, and as well the entire Illinois program. People like that.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 10:21:16 PM by honest & balanced terry » Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #95 on: February 05, 2013, 10:23:25 PM »

So true, Bob.....but we have to also take in to consideration that certain individuals on this forum have ALOT more experience in NOISE......

In your case, true. Noise is where you came in. I suspect it is your middle name. Throughout the course of these discussions, I've also learned it's a rep you have on the backside according to some people, too.
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #96 on: February 05, 2013, 10:38:19 PM »

In your case, true. Noise is where you came in. I suspect it is your middle name. Throughout the course of these discussions, I've also learned it's a rep you have on the backside according to some people, too.

Intrusion time.  You are getting sort of personal here, Terry.  Using your own reasoning style, what people were talking about this "rep"?  Where is your proof?
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pamwaggy
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« Reply #97 on: February 05, 2013, 10:45:54 PM »

Tell us Terry.  With sources now.  I am sure everyone would like to know.
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« Reply #98 on: February 05, 2013, 11:08:01 PM »

It appears as though Terry has turned to the Dark Side.  Up to this point he has only used his superpower to fight the evil forces trying to defame Hawthorne, the ITHA, the state vet, and anyone other than the evil trainers and horse owners who were truly to blame.  He did this with his "prove it" power.  Now it appears the power has been turned. 

Terry now tells us of "parties" who will illicitly gain from the continuation of this tragic event. Who, you ask??? Those conspiring to keep horses from FP, those trying to hurt Hawthorne, those out to ruin the Spring Meet, and those who want to destroy Illinois racing.  He also tells us that his arch nemesis is not regarded highly by "some people" on the backside.

WHO??? WHAT??? WHERE??? WHY??? HOW???

Oh, woe is us.  Who will ask the tough questions now?  Who will demand proof???

Does someone have the Justice League's email?
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Equiforce
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« Reply #99 on: February 05, 2013, 11:22:29 PM »

"Parties" ?  Did I miss the parties....OMG, I hate when that happens....
My middle name is actually "Leigh", after Vivienne Leigh...If you must know.....

And yeah, co**, sry...Terry...who exactly was it that was complaining about me on the backside (besides our trusty ITHA pres ?).
And could you relay a little message to them for me errand boy....could you tell them that I've been out there, every morning, freezing, taking horses to the pole, in my BRIGHT green coat, watching our horses train...except for the days that Hawthorne has decided that we aren't going to train...for NOOO reason...so...if they woud like to say something to me....ummmm...face to face....without a barn to wire intermediary, I would welcome a friendly or cordial discussion with them....

Lololol
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