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Author Topic: WHY DOES GURAL BAN HERRERA???????  (Read 2684 times)
popcorn pennyless
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« on: January 18, 2013, 08:14:19 AM »

Clean record and yet Burke, Croghan, Daley, Coleman, Fraley, Allard & others are allowed. Sets up for a great descrimination lawsuit in my opinion. screwy screwy

Gural only likes mexicans who sweep the Meadowlands floor or clean his house and laundry it seems?  Bad for business to pick and choose. thumbs up
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 08:31:45 AM by popcorn pennyless » Report to moderator   Logged
Jerome B
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« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2013, 09:35:36 AM »

Clean record and yet Burke, Croghan, Daley, Coleman, Fraley, Allard & others are allowed. Sets up for a great descrimination lawsuit in my opinion. screwy screwy

Gural only likes mexicans who sweep the Meadowlands floor or clean his house and laundry it seems?  Bad for business to pick and choose. thumbs up
Hes "picking and choosing".  Herrera's record is clean the last few years and has some very minor positives in 2010. But he worked for Pena and Im guessing Gural views that as "your out". Meanwhile the above trainers have far worse suspicions ans positives. Yonkers has no problem with Herrera.  Weather or not hes a juicer, how can Gural possibly justify denying him access there and allow Burke, Allard and the rest of the above listed the ability to race there. Gilbert has not tested positive for anything. Allard certainly did, as did numerous others racing there. Makes no sense at all. Herrera is taking the high road and says its fine, he'll race at Yonkers and earn a nice living. He simply says his association with Pena is the reason, and hes right.  Selective banning doesnt make very much sense

Such is the state of harnes racing. Maybe Gural is doing his best to clean up the gane as he sees fit, but hes doing it in a very odd manner. Burke should be the first to go, and that doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out
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Steve G
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« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2013, 10:01:56 AM »

is there a list of who isnt allowed to enter at the meadowlands?
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Psycho Dad
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« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2013, 10:04:32 AM »

Don't know.  But one would like to think that it is based on evidence secured by private investigators.
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popcorn pennyless
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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2013, 10:06:10 AM »

Don't know.  But one would like to think that it is based on evidence secured by private investigators.


If that was true then all the multiple offenders would have been gone first so that is total BS
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Louie Weedelbaum
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« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2013, 10:08:33 AM »

I believe he has a right to exclude anyone he wants just as gamblers have a right not to bet on his product.  I'm not saying this is right, wrong or anything else but I believe he does have the right.
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newjackcity
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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2013, 10:09:44 AM »

His house so he can do what he wants whether we like it or not.
Wonder if he still has his designated P L O P reader and other site reader ?
Nice position.  Is it still available for resumes Huh?  laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy
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Psycho Dad
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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2013, 10:10:46 AM »


If that was true then all the multiple offenders would have been gone first so that is total BS

You have as little information as I do.
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Jerome B
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« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2013, 10:11:38 AM »

Don't know.  But one would like to think that it is based on evidence secured by private investigators.

And this evidence is not being made avaialable to the general public as in the case of Herera. What possible reason would there be for taking that route. Why keep that information classified ? Ans as was just stated, the proven multiple offenders get a pass. Where's the logic ?
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TheRedMile
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« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2013, 10:13:07 AM »

Clean record and yet Burke, Croghan, Daley, Coleman, Fraley, Allard & others are allowed. Sets up for a great descrimination lawsuit in my opinion. screwy screwy

Gural only likes mexicans who sweep the Meadowlands floor or clean his house and laundry it seems?  Bad for business to pick and choose. thumbs up

are you saying gural maybe a racist ?
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popcorn pennyless
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« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2013, 10:14:10 AM »

His house so he can do what he wants whether we like it or not.
Wonder if he still has his designated P L O P reader and other site reader ?
Nice position.  Is it still available for resumes Huh?  laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy

Jeff, Newlin and the rest of his corporate suck ups read Poop daily as do the egguslegus crew.
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Jerome B
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« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2013, 10:16:27 AM »

I believe he has a right to exclude anyone he wants just as gamblers have a right not to bet on his product.  I'm not saying this is right, wrong or anything else but I believe he does have the right.

Of course he can do what he wants. He can exclude anybody he wishes without cause. Bur where's the justification for keeping the cheats around ?

This isnt going to work out very well . Bad business. I believe Herera isnt above board by any means. But the rest listed here are ? Please, lets get real.
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newjackcity
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« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2013, 10:18:32 AM »

Of course he can do what he wants. He can exclude anybody he wishes without cause. Bur where's the justification for keeping the cheats around ?

This isnt going to work out very well . Bad business. I believe Herera isnt above board by any means. But the rest listed here are ? Please, lets get real.
If he actually banded those who are NOT above board, could he fill a card Huh
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Louie Weedelbaum
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« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2013, 10:18:45 AM »

Of course he can do what he wants. He can exclude anybody he wishes without cause. Bur where's the justification for keeping the cheats around ?

This isnt going to work out very well . Bad business. I believe Herera isnt above board by any means. But the rest listed here are ? Please, lets get real.

I certainly get your point but let's be honest, unless it hurts his business he will keep them around.  If the gamblers say no more bets until house is cleaned, then maybe.  But really what are the chances that the fans/gamblers actually work together to infuence a change?
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popcorn pennyless
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« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2013, 10:21:09 AM »

I certainly get your point but let's be honest, unless it hurts his business he will keep them around.  If the gamblers say no more bets until house is cleaned, then maybe.  But really what are the chances that the fans/gamblers actually work together to infuence a change?

If that was the case then why ban Pena and Herrera? At least the $2 bettors could usually cash a ticket with them and keep coming back for more regardless of the payout. The $2 bettors are the ones who get turned off even more by the selective banning as it now creates horses winning with ridiculous form reversals.
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Louie Weedelbaum
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« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2013, 10:22:52 AM »

If that was the case then why ban Pena and Herrera? At least the $2 bettors could usually cash a ticket with them and keep coming back for more regardless of the payout. The $2 bettors are the ones who get turned off even more by the selective banning as it now creates horses winning with ridiculous form reversals.

I don't think the $2 bettor is who they listen to.
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Jerome B
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« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2013, 10:24:28 AM »

I certainly get your point but let's be honest, unless it hurts his business he will keep them around.  If the gamblers say no more bets until house is cleaned, then maybe.  But really what are the chances that the fans/gamblers actually work together to infuence a change?

It wont hurts his business one bit,  because gamblers could care less. but it certainly doesnt make it right. Thats the point here, and what is his motivation ?
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popcorn pennyless
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« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2013, 10:26:47 AM »

I don't think the $2 bettor is who they listen to.

He better listen to the $2 dollar bettor because he lost most of his big players years ago under the other regime after being treated awful and a rewards program that catered to nobody but themselves.
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« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2013, 10:32:45 AM »

Good for Gural. Does not matter what people think. His track and he can do what he wants and if he is trying to clean up racing one cheater at a time with the ones who are the most obvious then good for him. Name one track operator that is trying to clean up racing or even doing anything worthwhile to help the reputation in racing Huh?? You won't find one. WHY IS THAT Huh??
Complain about the people who promote cheating at their track and letting the vets at these tracks helping all these cheaters.....if you are reading this you know who you are. Just like the Lance Armstrong's of the world.....LIE AND DENY UNTIL YOU DIE.
And just FYI the aforementioned used to be known as Arm and Hammer.... laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy
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popcorn pennyless
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« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2013, 10:34:23 AM »

Good for Gural. Does not matter what people think. His track and he can do what he wants and if he is trying to clean up racing one cheater at a time with the ones who are the most obvious then good for him. Name one track operator that is trying to clean up racing or even doing anything worthwhile to help the reputation in racing Huh?? You won't find one. WHY IS THAT Huh??
Complain about the people who promote cheating at their track and letting the vets at these tracks helping all these cheaters.....if you are reading this you know who you are. Just like the Lance Armstrong's of the world.....LIE AND DENY UNTIL YOU DIE.
And just FYI the aforementioned used to be known as Arm and Hammer.... laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy

Guess you never heard of Burke, Croghan, Daley, Norman, Fraley or Johnson for starters. laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy screwy
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PURPLE LAVERN
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« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2013, 10:48:56 AM »

Its like going after Manny when Scarface is moving 3 kilos of Yayo..

*** boy is one & the same as his teacher...I am glad JG tossed his *** as s out to the curb...50% winining percentage at 3 tracks when he was barely a force at Cal PO

I for one would rather bet on races that he is not INVOLVED with
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pacinfool
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« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2013, 10:49:24 AM »

Guess you never heard of Burke, Croghan, Daley, Norman, Fraley or Johnson for starters. laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy screwy

Yeah.... been is the business 40 years and never seen anyone even remotely trying to clean things up at all.  All the cheats you mention would not be around today if there were guys like Gural operating tracks across the country instead of all these weasels who let them get away with cheating and by doing that it promoted others in the barn area to try to keep up by cheating as well. Cheating promotes more cheating and that is why harness racing is the way it is.  What is your stance.....do you want cheaters or not Huh??
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popcorn pennyless
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« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2013, 10:51:08 AM »

Yeah.... been is the business 40 years and never seen anyone even remotely trying to clean things up at all.  All the cheats you mention would not be around today if there were guys like Gural operating tracks across the country instead of all these weasels who let them get away with cheating and by doing that it promoted others in the barn area to try to keep up by cheating as well. Cheating promotes more cheating and that is why harness racing is the way it is.  What is your stance.....do you want cheaters or not Huh??

Regardless what you think about Herrera he has not gotten a positive unlike the other names mentioned so that is wrong and we cannot call him a cheat unlike the others until it is proven.
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Jerome B
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« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2013, 10:52:49 AM »

Yeah.... been is the business 40 years and never seen anyone even remotely trying to clean things up at all.  All the cheats you mention would not be around today if there were guys like Gural operating tracks across the country instead of all these weasels who let them get away with cheating and by doing that it promoted others in the barn area to try to keep up by cheating as well. Cheating promotes more cheating and that is why harness racing is the way it is.  What is your stance.....do you want cheaters or not Huh??

Nobody does. But dont pick the ones you want and let the others continue to cheat. Is that what you want ?
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Louie Weedelbaum
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« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2013, 10:59:26 AM »

It wont hurts his business one bit,  because gamblers could care less. but it certainly doesnt make it right. Thats the point here, and what is his motivation ?

His main motivation is to make money, that's any business.  Beyond that it's pure speculation as to why.
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MR.DALRAE
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« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2013, 11:01:01 AM »

Keep up the good work Jeff
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pacinfool
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« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2013, 11:05:07 AM »

Regardless what you think about Herrera he has not gotten a positive unlike the other names mentioned so that is wrong and we cannot call him a cheat unlike the others until it is proven.


Just like Lance Armstrong.....huh.  I raced against him for years and heard shit first hand that others on this site don't even know anything about. And this came from the powers that be not some groom.
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TheRedMile
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« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2013, 11:05:50 AM »

Keep up the good work Jeff

 thumbs up thumbs up
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pacinfool
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« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2013, 11:16:28 AM »

Maybe Gural should takeover all the tracks and he could kick out more of the cheaters. Just cause they haven't received a positive that doesn't mean they aren't cheating I.E. Lance Armstrong.
Owners of the tracks that turn their heads the other way are just as guilty as these trainers. And the horse owners who hire these cheaters know they are cheating but, they don't care just like the drivers know who is cheating and that is who they want to drive for cause it is like everyone else in this sick business.......it is all about the money and nothing else such as honesty and integrity. NO ONE WANTS TO TAKE A STAND. Good for Gural
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« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2013, 12:21:17 PM »

Bravo Jeff Gural.

As for Burke, that barn has more horses than anyone.
I would think they have been tested more than anyone.
Gural keeps them.
If he thought they were not playing by the rules he'd toss them.
The argument about tossing them would hurt the horse population only goes so far.
If the Burke's were unable to race, their owners would still need to pay for the horses care etc; they would race in another barn.
The number of horses competing would'nt really change.

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« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2013, 12:34:28 PM »

Per the $2 bettor, for the most part, he does not exist.

Back in the day when harness racing ruled the night, there were thousands of two-dollar bettors and they controlled the game.

Today's $2 bettor is someone who shows up three times a year and asks about the funny straps around the horses' legs.  No track owner will do anything based on the wishes of the few $2 bettors.
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« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2013, 12:38:37 PM »

Bravo Jeff Gural.

As for Burke, that barn has more horses than anyone.
I would think they have been tested more than anyone.
Gural keeps them.
If he thought they were not playing by the rules he'd toss them.
The argument about tossing them would hurt the horse population only goes so far.
If the Burke's were unable to race, their owners would still need to pay for the horses care etc; they would race in another barn.
The number of horses competing would'nt really change.


BS HE KNOWS THEY ARE NOT PLAYING BY THE RULES  But when you have 250+ horses Sounds to me like the track needs them. Gural is full of _hit he tosses as he wishes. He has been involved with cheats himself as long as the ball is on his court its ok. Didn't Ledfraud had the Little E Horses? Now he has horse with Miller and Ray S! Isn't Rays wife a vet! Trust me these horses are not just racing on hay and oats!!!!

As to Farley/ Kesmodel, Croghan, Allard, and many more with positives its ok if we know what you are using so we can also use it then throw the test down the toilet. But Pena and Herrera since we have no idea what your using you cant play in my backyard...  
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jdizigg
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« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2013, 01:36:20 PM »

Listen, it is what it is.  As somebody who watches tens of thousands of harness races every year.  If you dont know who's preracing your not winning period especially out east.  I wish i could say differently but i see it with my own eyes.  Somebody look up Richard Moreau's stats first start off the claim or a private purchase. ITS EYE POPPING, Casie Coleman last year was deadly first start off of anybody else.  Im not saying these guys or anybody is cheating because maybe there not i dont have any proof.  Whatever there using must be legal so theres nothing you can do other than put them on your ticket.  But i will tell you this you cant make money unless you know the nuances of everything about trainers these days and it didnt use to be like that....
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« Reply #33 on: January 18, 2013, 01:43:16 PM »

Listen, it is what it is.  As somebody who watches tens of thousands of harness races every year.  If you dont know who's preracing your not winning period especially out east.  I wish i could say differently but i see it with my own eyes.  Somebody look up Richard Moreau's stats first start off the claim or a private purchase. ITS EYE POPPING, Casie Coleman last year was deadly first start off of anybody else.  Im not saying these guys or anybody is cheating because maybe there not i dont have any proof.  Whatever there using must be legal so theres nothing you can do other than put them on your ticket.  But i will tell you this you cant make money unless you know the nuances of everything about trainers these days and it didnt use to be like that....

JD In any sport there are over achievers and under achievers.

This is the only game I know where the over achievers are looked at with a raised eyebrow.
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« Reply #34 on: January 18, 2013, 01:48:32 PM »

Racism seems to be the only logical answer. What he is doing is akin to welcoming Roger Clemens into the Hall of Fame with open arms and keeping Greg Maddux out because he "thinks" he was cheating.
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SHOWTIME!!!
jdizigg
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« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2013, 01:54:21 PM »

JD In any sport there are over achievers and under achievers.

This is the only game I know where the over achievers are looked at with a raised eyebrow.

I agree.
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« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2013, 02:58:02 PM »

Listen, it is what it is.  As somebody who watches tens of thousands of harness races every year.  If you dont know who's preracing your not winning period especially out east.  I wish i could say differently but i see it with my own eyes.  Somebody look up Richard Moreau's stats first start off the claim or a private purchase. ITS EYE POPPING, Casie Coleman last year was deadly first start off of anybody else.  Im not saying these guys or anybody is cheating because maybe there not i dont have any proof.  Whatever there using must be legal so theres nothing you can do other than put them on your ticket.  But i will tell you this you cant make money unless you know the nuances of everything about trainers these days and it didnt use to be like that....

I don't accept 'whatever they are using it must be legal.'  For trainers like Coleman and Pena I say, "whatever they are using it must be illegal and undetectable."  I make that statement with no proof and absolute conviction that it true.  Their success defies logic.

You are correct about the importance of knowing the nuances of trainers today.  I did awfully well at this game for years without paying any attention to the trainer.  That ship has sailed.
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« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2013, 04:03:59 PM »

Jerome---Such is the state of harnes racing. Maybe Gural is doing his best to clean up the gane as he sees fit, but hes doing it in a very odd manner. Burke should be the first to go, and that doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out




Jerome-- explain in detail the reasons Burke should be banned from the Meadowlands.   Let's hear some real proof....
What drugs is he using???  do you have pictures??   Or are you just beating your chest Huh
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« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2013, 04:47:33 PM »

Jerome---Such is the state of harnes racing. Maybe Gural is doing his best to clean up the gane as he sees fit, but hes doing it in a very odd manner. Burke should be the first to go, and that doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out




Jerome-- explain in detail the reasons Burke should be banned from the Meadowlands.   Let's hear some real proof....
What drugs is he using???  do you have pictures??   Or are you just beating your chest Huh
Some people just can't stand to see others succeed.
Especially if they don't do it the same way success has been achieved before.
Many of the Burke haters always mention the fact that he trains 200 horses.
As if that fact alone makes him a crook.
The facts are they train more horses than anyone in the business.
I would think that they have had more horses tested than anyone else too.
Yet no major infractions.
They have a business plan in a sport that for a long time was a mom and pop industry.
Some people cannot understand how the Burke's can run their business as they do and be successful.
Such ignorance of a situation often leads to unsubstantiated accusations.
Let me be bold and make a substantiated factual comment.
Just because they have 200 horses does not make them crooks.
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« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2013, 06:31:52 PM »

IF burke was cheating Gural would throw him out cold !!   We can at least be confident burke would not be that stupid to be cheating right under Gurals nose.  The MEDS is without a doubt the cleanest harness track operating today.... is it perfect....NO......but Gural cannot be "bought"  he dosent need the money.....    I feel the best when betting the Meadowlands.... 

 geezer  I feel irish clean when betting the big M  ...... clover
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« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2013, 08:19:41 PM »

I don't accept 'whatever they are using it must be legal.'  For trainers like Coleman and Pena I say, "whatever they are using it must be illegal and undetectable."  I make that statement with no proof and absolute conviction that it true.  Their success defies logic.

You are correct about the importance of knowing the nuances of trainers today.  I did awfully well at this game for years without paying any attention to the trainer.  That ship has sailed.

A great retort and a very intelligent answer to what has become a cancer on this business. In our society we are suppose to be innocent until proven guilty but, a lot of deceitful people has used this to their advantage. Not just trainers but vets as well. When a vet hands viles, needles, and syringes to someone they just crossed a line. It happens everywhere whether people want to believe it or not. State jurisdictions cannot test for synthetic drugs.....that is the bottom line when people think cause a guy hasn't had any serious positives means absolutely nothing. I have seen to many trainers coming to the barn with their silver briefcase and take care of business. All had the same style......which was also really strange as well. I guess it is a fraternity. They look at honest owners, trainers, and drivers as suckers.
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« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2013, 10:24:34 PM »

IF burke was cheating Gural would throw him out cold !!   We can at least be confident burke would not be that stupid to be cheating right under Gurals nose.  The MEDS is without a doubt the cleanest harness track operating today.... is it perfect....NO......but Gural cannot be "bought"  he dosent need the money.....    I feel the best when betting the Meadowlands.... 

 geezer  I feel irish clean when betting the big M  ...... clover


He can't be directly bought.....Croghan has more positives then all those trainers combined....he can race because Eric Cherry is Ross's largest owner who also happens to be a large investor in the track
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« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2013, 05:03:30 AM »



Maybe Gural should takeover all the tracks and he could kick out more of the cheaters. Just cause they haven't received a positive that doesn't mean they aren't cheating I.E. Lance Armstrong.
Owners of the tracks that turn their heads the other way are just as guilty as these trainers. And the horse owners who hire these cheaters know they are cheating but, they don't care just like the drivers know who is cheating and that is who they want to drive for cause it is like everyone else in this sick business.......it is all about the money and nothing else such as honesty and integrity. NO ONE WANTS TO TAKE A STAND. Good for Gural
 

Has ross croghan had any positives at the Meadowlands?  Is this something sulky can expose Huh?   Can someone print a record of the positives??  I would be more then happy to present the Meadowlands mgmnt with this information...    Dont tell me its public knowledge..... just get a list to me....a recent one....


Thank you .
 trotter
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« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2013, 09:15:31 AM »


Maybe Gural should takeover all the tracks and he could kick out more of the cheaters. Just cause they haven't received a positive that doesn't mean they aren't cheating I.E. Lance Armstrong.
Owners of the tracks that turn their heads the other way are just as guilty as these trainers. And the horse owners who hire these cheaters know they are cheating but, they don't care just like the drivers know who is cheating and that is who they want to drive for cause it is like everyone else in this sick business.......it is all about the money and nothing else such as honesty and integrity. NO ONE WANTS TO TAKE A STAND. Good for Gural
 

Has ross croghan had any positives at the Meadowlands?  Is this something sulky can expose Huh?   Can someone print a record of the positives??  I would be more then happy to present the Meadowlands mgmnt with this information...    Dont tell me its public knowledge..... just get a list to me....a recent one....


Thank you .
 trotter
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I think Ross has over 500 suspension days in his career.....7 positives in NJ....hey Toscano has 4 major violations as well.








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« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2013, 09:32:53 AM »

wow .......thanks dnnj1  ,,,,,    500 suspension days??? Whoa........

I didnt think Linda had 4 majors.....  she sent a letter out saying she never had any violations,,,, hmmmmmmm    were these violations recent?   

The Meds has a list a mile long of banned trainers.....  how bad were those guys I wonder???   
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Bet with Integrity .....Bet with Gural !
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