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Author Topic: Hawthorne condition book out  (Read 2894 times)
beobob
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« on: January 10, 2013, 12:34:10 PM »

MSW 24K. IL ALW 26K

http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbHorsemenAreaDownloadAction.cfm?sn=CB-HAW-20130215-20130309D
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2013, 12:36:45 PM »

The horseman must have had them burn through that boat money like drunken sailors.
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« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2013, 12:49:54 PM »


The horseman must have had them burn through that boat money like drunken sailors.


The ITHA - Hawthorne alliance gave us short term gain, long term pain.  Campbell got re-elected, HAW got extra days, we got (insert your favorite expression here).  And, as a bonus, AP will use their lost revenue from those days as an excuse to cut everything imaginable.  Well played.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2013, 12:56:41 PM »

The ITHA - Hawthorne alliance gave us short term gain, long term pain.  Campbell got re-elected, HAW got extra days, we got (insert your favorite expression here).  And, as a bonus, AP will use their lost revenue from those days as an excuse to cut everything imaginable.  Well played.

It makes no overall difference to the horsemen what track gets the winter dark day money from simulcasting. Guys will bet the same amount, and exactly the same amount of earned purse money from simulcasts will be paid out over the course of the year. The only difference is what tracks pays it. 
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« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2013, 01:27:47 PM »

It makes no overall difference to the horsemen what track gets the winter dark day money from simulcasting. Guys will bet the same amount, and exactly the same amount of earned purse money from simulcasts will be paid out over the course of the year. The only difference is what tracks pays it. 

Which means to me that the ITHA needs to be neutral in matters such as these.  I wasn't at the IRB meeting, but I had heard that the ITHA sided with HAW in this.  If that is true, that is a stupid thing to do.  Why antagonize an organization that you have to negotiate with?
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2013, 03:52:36 PM »

Which means to me that the ITHA needs to be neutral in matters such as these.  I wasn't at the IRB meeting, but I had heard that the ITHA sided with HAW in this.  If that is true, that is a stupid thing to do.  Why antagonize an organization that you have to negotiate with?

I think it was all tied up with the issue of killing the Illinois Derby so that Churchill and Arlington could try and kill the Spring meet at Hawthorne. The horsemen are always going to oppose the loss of racing days. And the flip side is, why would you antagonize Hawthorne (and screw your own members) by supporting Dick D's "vision for Illinois racing" of him dictating terms from a monopoly position?
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« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2013, 04:45:13 PM »

I think it was all tied up with the issue of killing the Illinois Derby so that Churchill and Arlington could try and kill the Spring meet at Hawthorne. The horsemen are always going to oppose the loss of racing days. And the flip side is, why would you antagonize Hawthorne (and screw your own members) by supporting Dick D's "vision for Illinois racing" of him dictating terms from a monopoly position?

I'm for antagonizing no one.  I don't have a dog in the AP vs HAW fight, but I am a realist. The future of Illinois racing (if there is a future) will have AP at the forefront with HAW secondary. No matter how much you might love HAW or hate AP or CDI, that is a reality.  The racing world made the Illinois Derby a 3rd tier race, CD didn't. Fighting AP at every turn and siding with HAW on every issue fails to acknowledge this reality.

A disfunctional relationship with AP does not help the horsemen.  I realize it is a two way street and AP can and will bully to get their way, but without a working relationship with AP we are all screwed.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2013, 04:57:08 PM »

Fighting AP at every turn and siding with HAW on every issue fails to acknowledge this reality.

They don't do that. Some years they are AP's friends.

Quote
A disfunctional relationship with AP does not help the horsemen.  I realize it is a two way street and AP can and will bully to get their way, but without a working relationship with AP we are all screwed.

A "working relationship" goes two ways and includes AP respecting the horsemen. Lately, however, it seems they are out to screw them at every turn, whether it is crappier ADW percentages than Youbet used to give, or trying to make back rooms deals for slots that don't include the horsemen or any other track, or screwing them out of the horsemen's % of their own purse money from the boats by calling it "industry money", or trying to make the Illinois racing season dark for pretty much four full months, or trying to oust the current horsemen's organization, or whatever. If they're not going to act like partners, I see no reason at all for the horsemen to roll over and take one in the butt. And the majority of horsemen must agree with that, having re-elected the same leadership.  
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« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2013, 05:13:11 PM »

OK.  I give.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2013, 10:40:42 AM »

Which means to me that the ITHA needs to be neutral in matters such as these.  I wasn't at the IRB meeting, but I had heard that the ITHA sided with HAW in this.  If that is true, that is a stupid thing to do.

Got to thinking about this, and wondered where it was you heard that the ITHA sided with the IRB in taking dark days away from AP?

I looked back at our own thread as well as a number of the stories that were written at the time, including Marcus', and could find nothing about the horsemen supporting stripping days from AP. All I could mentioning the horsemen/ITHA was this small passage in the Trib story, in regard to AP's attempt to once again take more dark days and in addition kill a week of racing in April at Hawthorne:

"In testifying in support of Hawthorne's attempt to preserve its extended spring meeting, Illinois Thoroughbred Horseman's Association president Mike Campbell argued that adding more dark time [to AP] would eliminate jobs on the backstretch and disrupt the education of displaced stable area employees' children."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-09-25/sports/ct-spt-0926-horse-racing--20120926_1_arlington-general-manager-tony-petrillo-stickney-track
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« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2013, 04:17:58 PM »

are these the purses we can expect year round? if so whata f'n joke. on a side note any word on jim millers replacement or if there are even plans to hire one?


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SIXRULER
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« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2013, 08:47:43 PM »

are these the purses we can expect year round? if so whata f'n joke. on a side note any word on jim millers replacement or if there are even plans to hire one?


    I think they will be a little better at AP this summer.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2013, 09:00:35 PM »

are these the purses we can expect year round? if so whata f'n joke.

Well, put better and more horses on the track so people will bet more and you earn more purses. It's the product you are producing as a horseman that's being marketed to the simulcast players of America.
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« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2013, 09:54:27 AM »

Number of starters per race and money wagered was up last spring meet. So this is how the horsemen get rewarded or "earn" the following spring meet? i guess you mean get bent over since the following year purses are down over 30% in some races compared to the previous year. fu * k hawthorne, arlington, the itha, and illinois racing in general! im sure others have the same opinion now(if they already didnt) after seeing all that transpired here in 2012. they should get out of the racing business and just become politcians since theyre crooks and thieves just like em. they proved they only look out for number 1 and dont give a fu*k about the horsemen and more importantly this past fall the horses themselves.





Well, put better and more horses on the track so people will bet more and you earn more purses. It's the product you are producing as a horseman that's being marketed to the simulcast players of America.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2013, 10:52:25 AM »

Number of starters per race and money wagered was up last spring meet. So this is how the horsemen get rewarded or "earn" the following spring meet? i guess you mean get bent over since the following year purses are down over 30% in some races compared to the previous year. fu * k hawthorne, arlington, the itha, and illinois racing in general!

That was last year, was bolstered by boat money racing did not earn, and any additional purse money it earned was paid out last year.

This year's purses are based on what Hawthorne and the ITHA think the wagering will earn, and the ITHA signed a contract based on that.

You and some other posters act like there's some big pool of purse money somewhere the tracks are keeping for themselves. There isn't. There is a set percentage of each wager made in Illinois and each wager made outside Illinois on Illinois races that is dedicated to purses. Set in law. That's what you get. There is no more to pay out.
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« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2013, 07:05:33 PM »

what happened to it being spread out over three years.?how much if any did the tracks stick in their pockets? What the ITHA and hawthorne "thinks" amount to dikk in my opinion, again neither are competent enough and or care about the horsemen or horses themselves and they both proved it this past summer fall. terry have you applied for jim millers job yet?


That was last year, was bolstered by boat money racing did not earn, and any additional purse money it earned was paid out last year.

This year's purses are based on what Hawthorne and the ITHA think the wagering will earn, and the ITHA signed a contract based on that.

You and some other posters act like there's some big pool of purse money somewhere the tracks are keeping for themselves. There isn't. There is a set percentage of each wager made in Illinois and each wager made outside Illinois on Illinois races that is dedicated to purses. Set in law. That's what you get. There is no more to pay out.
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« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2013, 07:41:42 PM »

Sure would have been nice if it was spead out a little longer to lessen the financial pain of this bad situation and to help to try to rebuild some positive feelings. Although I know hindsite is 20/20.
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« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2013, 06:44:50 AM »

The horseman must have had them burn through that boat money like drunken sailors.
[/quote

Do you understand that it costs 25,000. to keep a horse for a year?

And there are insurance fees, gas to get there and our own bills to live.
You are the drunk.
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cubfan
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« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2013, 08:40:22 AM »

when was the last time anyone from IRB, Hawthorne, Fairmount or AP picked up the phone to ask an owner or trainer for their opinions on anything?

 Each year in the 10 years I've owned horses the "I don't give s*%^ attitidue about the horsemen's livelihoods increases.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2013, 09:23:53 AM »

Do you understand that it costs 25,000. to keep a horse for a year?

Having owned racehorses for 16 or 17 years, whatever it was, yes I do understand that.

However, it does not change the fact that the ITHA seems to have convinced Hawthorne to burn through all the boat money dedicated to purses in just two Fall meets and one Spring meet, spending that money like a drunken sailor.

Quote
And there are insurance fees, gas to get there and our own bills to live.
You are the drunk.

Well then, since you obviously agreed with the boat money being spent that fast, I'm guessing you are one who's not going to complain about the purses at this Spring meet.
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« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2013, 09:30:29 AM »

what happened to it being spread out over three years.?

I remember Arlington trying to do that and the horsemen complaining. I do NOT recall anything at all specific about what Hawthorne was going to do.

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how much if any did the tracks stick in their pockets?

Of the extra purse money? Probably none. The ITHA keeps on top of the purse account.

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What the ITHA and hawthorne "thinks" amount to dikk in my opinion

Your opinion is duly noted, but someone has to project the earned purses and set a purse structure.
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« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2013, 10:08:27 AM »




With our costs so high, I believe the "drunken sailor" comment was spot on. It was incredibly short sighted to blow through that $$$ so quickly.  It should have been apparent to anyone that our current Governor was going to fight us on slots.  It would have been prudent to space out the impact $$$ until the 2014 election with a provision to accelerate payout if slots were approved.
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SIXRULER
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« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2013, 08:40:46 PM »



With our costs so high, I believe the "drunken sailor" comment was spot on. It was incredibly short sighted to blow through that $$$ so quickly.  It should have been apparent to anyone that our current Governor was going to fight us on slots.  It would have been prudent to space out the impact $$$ until the 2014 election with a provision to accelerate payout if slots were approved.
           Spot on ! Or maybe the extra $$ earned with the increased purses was put away to reinest in the game and move it forward.Much like so many have indicated previously.
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« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2013, 05:58:38 PM »

are these the purses we can expect year round? if so whata f'n joke. on a side note any word on jim millers replacement or if there are even plans to hire one?


  Any word if the purses will get a bump ?
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« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2013, 04:07:16 PM »

Anyone know if Cisco plans to come back for the spring meet? He doesn't seem to be getting a lot of mounts (and very few live ones) at GP.
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