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Author Topic: Kentucky Governor May Push for Casino Gambling without Ties to Racetracks  (Read 1154 times)
Mary Ann
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« on: January 03, 2013, 09:18:59 PM »

They've got problems in Kentucky too.

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130103/NEWS01/301030083/Kentucky-Gov-Steve-Beshear-may-push-casino-gambling-without-ties-racetracks
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Yimmy
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« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2013, 09:30:31 PM »

"Well, it's not like Kentucky is a big horse state or anything."

Ian Faith hat off/
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2013, 12:57:10 AM »


Here is CD's response:

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130104/NEWS01/301040094/1003/rsslink?nclick_check=1
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2013, 12:38:38 PM »


So, the Kentucky Derby is alive and doing well, and Churchill even expanding their facility with obscene high roller rooms for the KY Derby, all while there is an Indiana casino boat just 20 minutes away from downtown, but if Kentucky should legislate an in-town casino and Churchill does not get to own and operate it, the Kentucky Derby is going to dry up and blow away. Yuh-huh. I call BS on that.
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
Mary Ann
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« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2013, 03:12:41 PM »

The Derby can always be run at Keeneland. I'm sure Keeneland would love to have the Derby and so would I because of my dislike for Churchill.
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2013, 04:40:31 PM »

The Derby can always be run at Keeneland. I'm sure Keeneland would love to have the Derby and so would I because of my dislike for Churchill.

Not on polytrack.  Of course, the Derby is the property of Churchill too.  Buy stock in CD and you will love it more.
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Mary Ann
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« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2013, 07:33:49 PM »

No way, Dan, as far as Churchill stock goes because the way they operate goes against my principles. I won't even wager on any Churchill track. Why aren't we hearing Keeneland bellyaching about slots and casinos like Churchill does? If Churchill doesn't get the casino and goes under the way they claim they will, I'm sure Keeneland would have the Derby or an equivalent. Do you really think Churchill has kept the Derby traditional? How does that new also eligibles rule that ensures a 20 horse field keep the tradition? The surface that Secretariat and Big Brown won on wasn't even the same. They scraped the track for the 2008 Derby because they didn't want a wet track. Churchill is full of hot air and baloney.
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Yimmy
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« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2013, 08:11:39 PM »

At times, yes.  But his "Finest Hour" speech is deathless.  Wink
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TheRedMile
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« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2013, 10:36:59 PM »

try putting a casino in lexington without keeneland getting a piece of it and you will hear some bellyaching from keeneland
a derby equivalent as a replacement for the real thing ?  laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy
they already have the blue grass and it was losing it's luster before they even went to poly   with the poly forget it
beside where are you going to put 100,000+ fans at keeneland ?
25-30k on a big day and it is a mess getting out
the 20 horse derby field was not even a tradition until about 30 yrs ago so get over it
i am not a fan of the new system but bash it not cd  if not for cd there is no world class racing in the midwest and the breeders cup race only on the coasts

No way, Dan, as far as Churchill stock goes because the way they operate goes against my principles. I won't even wager on any Churchill track. Why aren't we hearing Keeneland bellyaching about slots and casinos like Churchill does? If Churchill doesn't get the casino and goes under the way they claim they will, I'm sure Keeneland would have the Derby or an equivalent. Do you really think Churchill has kept the Derby traditional? How does that new also eligibles rule that ensures a 20 horse field keep the tradition? The surface that Secretariat and Big Brown won on wasn't even the same. They scraped the track for the 2008 Derby because they didn't want a wet track. Churchill is full of hot air and baloney.
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Mary Ann
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« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2013, 10:49:52 PM »

Niatross, most of those fans at the Derby are there for the party in the infield. Some of our family members went to the Derby every year and said they never saw the race. They went for the big party. They probably spent more on mint juleps than wagers.

The also eligibles rule went into effect in 2012:

http://www.drf.com/news/kentucky-derby-allow-also-eligibles-first-time-2012

You do bring up an interesting point about Churchill's fight for the casino because you are right that they are speaking up for themselves and not the other Kentucky tracks or the impact on Kentucky tracks. This should be very interesting to watch.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 11:14:33 PM by Mary Ann » Report to moderator   Logged
TheRedMile
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« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2013, 11:17:17 PM »

Niatross, most of those fans at the Derby are there for the party in the infield. Some of our family members went to the Derby every year and said they never saw the race. They went for the big party. They probably spent more on mint juleps than wagers.

i disagree,i think as avg attendace has grown for oaks and derby days more people are there for the races
i went to the derby for over 20 yrs straight starting with sunny's halo in 83
i recall 10 claimers running on derby day with zen king(?) winning the race after the derby one year
the infield is not what it was back in the early 80's.nowadays with everything that has been added to the track you can surely see it on the jumbotrons everywhere.
the track and grandstand are huge and even in the old days you needed binocs or a tv to see everything clearly
the parties are tamer given they have less infield to work with since they added a turf course and built their little village there
besides, laughing guy laughing guy you are taking the words of people who drink mint juleps ?  maroon  that has to be the most disgusting drink i ever tasted  i can see buying one to get the derby glass but more than one forget it
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Mary Ann
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« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2013, 11:52:24 PM »

Niatross, I'm not really a drinker but I will have a drink on a special occasion and I do make myself a mint julep on Derby Day. It's not so bad. Thought you'd find this interesting that the infield experience is still the same:

"The Race
 
At this point I should mention that almost nobody goes to the infield of the Kentucky Derby to actually watch the race. Why? Because itís damn near impossible. Many people in the infield go the entire day without so much as even seeing a horse. There are a couple of vantage points where fractions of the track can be seen, but they are few and far between. There are small video screens at turns two and four broadcasting the action, but given their size and distance, they are only visible from certain portions of the infield. This is perhaps the best view of the track from the infield and it was packed with people come racetime."

http://www.travelrinserepeat.com/in-which-john-attends-the-kentucky-derby/

I've never been to the Derby but I have been to Churchill and got to tour it in the mid-90's. At that time, I loved Churchill and felt I was walking on hallowed ground. We even got to walk through the tunnel from the paddock to the track where the greats had walked. It's the way the newer management at Churchill operates that turned me against them. The numbers of people like me who dislike how Churchill operates keep growing. I have not wagered on any Churchill track for a long time and the only one I miss is the Fairgrounds.
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2013, 11:53:28 PM »

Niatross, most of those fans at the Derby are there for the party in the infield. Some of our family members went to the Derby every year and said they never saw the race. They went for the big party. They probably spent more on mint juleps than wagers.

The also eligibles rule went into effect in 2012:

http://www.drf.com/news/kentucky-derby-allow-also-eligibles-first-time-2012

You do bring up an interesting point about Churchill's fight for the casino because you are right that they are speaking up for themselves and not the other Kentucky tracks or the impact on Kentucky tracks. This should be very interesting to watch.

By the Also Eligibles rule, I am assuming you mean the point system which is starting this year.  I think they did have a regular Also Eligibles list for 2012 for the first time, but not the point system which I believe Niatross is referring to.

Again, the Derby is more than a tradition, it is the property of CD.

I like the idea of the all-out fight to take possession of gaming in Kentucky launched by CD.  Too bad we do not have that leverage in Illinois.  We are having a hard time holding on to what we won in court or even continuing the ADW law.  Don't even think about getting a casino bill passed!
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 11:55:56 PM by APCD Dan » Report to moderator   Logged
Mary Ann
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« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2013, 12:05:50 AM »

Dan, the also eligibles rule I'm referring to took effect in 2012 which is if a Derby horse scratches, an also eligible can take its place which ensures there will always be a 20 horse field. I am not a fan of 20 horse fields. It's too dangerous, especially with green 3 year olds. Post position 1 has a distinct disadvantage with the rail as an obstacle to clear. A major catastrophe occurring in the Derby due to safety issues will have horse racing fans dropping from the sport like flies. I came close to giving up the sport with the Eight Belles tragedy.
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2013, 12:11:53 AM »

Dan, the also eligibles rule I'm referring to took effect in 2012 which is if a Derby horse scratches, an also eligible can take its place which ensures there will always be a 20 horse field. I am not a fan of 20 horse fields. It's too dangerous, especially with green 3 year olds. Post position 1 has a distinct disadvantage with the rail as an obstacle to clear. A major catastrophe occurring in the Derby due to safety issues will have horse racing fans dropping from the sport like flies. I came close to giving up the sport with the Eight Belles tragedy.

Well, I am also uncomfortable with the 20 horse field and its potential danger, but I think Terry showed me the hole in my thinking and now it is just my opinion.
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TheRedMile
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« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2013, 09:08:50 AM »

i am a fan of big fields in fact the bigger the better imo.that is why i enjoy the euro turf racing.the difference there is the tracks are huge and spread out not tight like our ovals.belmont and woodbine are  the only tracks imo who can safely handle big fields  on a daily basis.
my biggest problems with the ky derby from a safety and betting standpoint are the horses who really do not belong in the race.my beef started back when groovy and zabaleta were in the same derby.somehow both owners and trainers thought it was a good iidea to race ? i thought the same this yr with trinniberg.at least they survived how about the ones who had no shot were gutted in the race and you never heard from them again ?

i never owned any horses but as a fan and a bettor my experiences with cdi have been very good.my only gripes have been with arlington and rld and they began even before he sold to cdi
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2013, 09:51:12 AM »

Well, I am also uncomfortable with the 20 horse field and its potential danger, but I think Terry showed me the hole in my thinking and now it is just my opinion.

The main hole being that horses you would have excluded as "not worthy" have won, such as the New Mexico horse Mine That Bird (?) that turned out to be one of the better 3 y.o. of his class.
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2013, 03:38:26 PM »

Another good reply to Churchill about their God-given right to own all casinos in Louisville:

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130107/COLUMNISTS01/301070101/?nclick_check=1
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clockerbob
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« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2013, 09:49:54 PM »


SLOTRACING by Clockerbob

http://www.clockerbob.com/chapter8.html


"Dog racing or horse racing, it doesn't matter: Those who don't have slot machines, want them. And those who have them are profiting mightily." - Louise Taylor, HERALD-LEADER BUSINESS WRITER, March 22, 1999

Like white-hot tumbling volcanic lava, slot machine gaming has exploded into overdrive, nationally geared by the greed of competing state governments for that quick boost of gaming jobs and tax revenue guaranteed because of the high percentage of winnings returned to players of slots (e.g. 94.4% coinage is returned as winnings to the slot players at Prairie Meadows Casino and Racetrack in Iowa).
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Mary Ann
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« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2013, 07:47:54 PM »

Dan, thought you would find the following article interesting.  Itís from last March but it gives you an idea of how CDI regularly operates and it shows, in my opinion, what a bunch of knuckleheads they really are.

http://insiderlouisville.com/news/2012/03/20/trouble-across-the-board-churchill-downs-inc-fights-to-own-derby-name/

Now I'm going to go into my rant about Churchill, not necessarily directed at you, Dan.  It is also my opinion they always play hard ball and theyíre just a ruthless and greedy corporation run by accountants and lawyers who are in the wrong business.  Further, they have a Wall Street mentality and are book smart but lack track smarts, people smarts, just plain common sense, decency and are a bunch of bullies who continually make enemies.  I guess they didn't have a class at their law schools about not burning bridges.

Hopefully, some day this group will move on to casinos only and Churchill goes back to being run by horsemen.  It could happen if Churchill does get the casino and horse racing does not make enough of a profit for them because profit is all they know and care about, no matter who they hurt.  On the other hand, it wouldnít surprise me if they would some day shut the horse racing side down if they get the casino and find the slots are subsidizing their horse racing.  Donít forget, the Governor might push for casinos without ties to racetracks so the idea is not so far-fetched.  Thatís exactly the type of legislation the Florida dog track owners with casinos wanted last year.  They no longer want to subsidize dog racing with slot profits and only want the casinos.

There are a couple of morals to the Churchill/casino story for those of us horse racing enthusiasts who have the sportís best interests at heart but are on the outside looking in:  1) let's be careful and cautious of what we wish for and what Churchill gets, and 2) never trust anyone whose only motivator is their money.

For those who have not seen this yet, Mike Watchmaker wrote about the Kentucky Derby points system and the exclusion of the Illinois Derby:

http://www.drf.com/blogs/problems-kentucky-derby-point-system
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2013, 10:17:28 PM »

Dan, thought you would find the following article interesting.  Itís from last March but it gives you an idea of how CDI regularly operates and it shows, in my opinion, what a bunch of knuckleheads they really are.

http://insiderlouisville.com/news/2012/03/20/trouble-across-the-board-churchill-downs-inc-fights-to-own-derby-name/

Now I'm going to go into my rant about Churchill, not necessarily directed at you, Dan.  It is also my opinion they always play hard ball and theyíre just a ruthless and greedy corporation run by accountants and lawyers who are in the wrong business.  Further, they have a Wall Street mentality and are book smart but lack track smarts, people smarts, just plain common sense, decency and are a bunch of bullies who continually make enemies.  I guess they didn't have a class at their law schools about not burning bridges.

Cannot disagree one bit on this.  Now Mr. D is trying to make them into a kinder and gentler organization the best he can.  (Do I need the sarcasm emoticon here?)
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