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Author Topic: Dutrow denied a 3rd time by NY Supreme Court  (Read 2075 times)
hungry
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« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2013, 11:03:14 PM »

NOBODY at a decent track got 10 years. You're simply lying to yourself if you don't think they are trying to make an example out of Dutrow.

(Please -- enough of the inbred nobodies that got suspended from the bush tracks -- no one cares. Ask one person in the game if they feel better because some backwoods trainers nobody ever heard of from a track nobody ever bets got suspended. BFD.)

We gotta start somewhere, why not Dutrow and why not now?

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« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2013, 11:40:45 AM »

We gotta start somewhere, why not Dutrow and why not now?

If "we gotta start somewhere"...why hasn't there been any other major busts since Dutrow got pinched over 2 years ago?

What -- NOBODY has done anything wrong since? Do you believe that?

I want racing cleaned up as much as anybody else, but I want it done RIGHT and I want it done FAIRLY. Making an example out of Dutrow -- while doing nothing else of significance in more than 2 years -- is simply window dressing. The people here that would have you believe that what is happening to Dutrow is just are merely being vindictive -- if they can't be a winning gambler because of "the juice"  Roll Eyes  at least we can fvck over a winning trainer. Feels good to the small minded.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2013, 03:59:16 PM »

If "we gotta start somewhere"...why hasn't there been any other major busts since Dutrow got pinched over 2 years ago?

There have been. New York also busted the top harness trainer Lous Pena, and some states in the south and southwest gave bog long bans to some guys who were caught juicing there. Dutrow is not the Lone Ranger you keep making him out to be.
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« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2013, 06:25:28 PM »

There have been. New York also busted the top harness trainer Lous Pena, and some states in the south and southwest gave bog long bans to some guys who were caught juicing there. Dutrow is not the Lone Ranger you keep making him out to be.

I said "major".

* Crooked-assed harness racing, about as honest and legit as pro wrestling? No one cares.

* Bandit racing in the mosquito-infested bayou, run under the cover of darkness by toothless inbreds? No one cares.

If horse racing is so goddamned drug-infested, where are the ongoing busts at Belmont, Aquedump, Churchill, AP, SoCal? Nothing at these places? Racing is on the square, and has been, every day for the past 2 years?

Anyone believe that nonsense?
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TheRedMile
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« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2013, 06:31:58 PM »

i have never been a fan of dutrow's but what they are doing to him is a joke vs others   same thing with pena in harness
i think rules should be clear cut and if you break them  you pay the price
the rules are all over the place and are a joke imo

even if dutrow is gone nothing will change which is the bigger joke in racing
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2013, 09:02:02 PM »

I said "major".

 doh

It doesn't matter, excerpt to you.

He's also the only one named "Dutrow". Why not exclude all others based on that? It's just idiotic.

Quote
If horse racing is so goddamned drug-infested, where are the ongoing busts at Belmont, Aquedump, Churchill, AP, SoCal? Nothing at these places? Racing is on the square, and has been, every day for the past 2 years?

"Horse racing" was not given a 10 year suspension, Rick Dutrow was.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 09:05:05 PM by honest & balanced terry » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2013, 10:25:57 PM »

"Horse racing" was not given a 10 year suspension, Rick Dutrow was.

What a weasel-like answer.  thumbs down

Again: NO violations whatsoever since Dutrow at any of the MAJOR tracks like Belmont, AP, Southern Cal...nothing in Kentucky?

How is that?

A: T-Bred racing got it's man. All is well now. It's just hay, oats and water, everywhere.

 doh
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2013, 10:33:16 PM »

What a weasel-like answer.  thumbs down

Again: NO violations whatsoever since Dutrow at any of the MAJOR tracks like Belmont, AP, Southern Cal...nothing in Kentucky?

You tell us. What "major" trainer has been running up the kind of repeated dumb violations like Dutrow was doing when they finally decided to reel him in?

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How is that?

No one else as big a scofflaw as Dutrow?
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« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2013, 08:35:33 AM »

You tell us. What "major" trainer has been running up the kind of repeated dumb violations like Dutrow was doing when they finally decided to reel him in?

That's the cover story, the one that has grown wings...not unlike Dutrow's supposed "70+ drug violations" that ignorant people walk around yapping about.

The inspiration for the 10 year penalty was because he had the audacity to try to fight the charges of having syringes in his desk drawer and the butorphanol positive...basically, the authorities had a fit of pique, and imposed the penalty. It was only afterwards that they realized how impetuous the whole process seemed that they fleshed out the complaint and backfilled it with a bunch of yada about Dutrow's "repeated violations" -- all of which he has already been penalized for, and has satisfied the terms and conditions of those penalties!


So, I'm stumped. A better question might be, "When will racing's authorities again invent a customized overly-harsh penalty out of thin air, to ban someone they don't like? Then I might take a shot at your question.

No one else as big a scofflaw as Dutrow?

Great concept!

No more penalties for individual violations; let's just build up a dossier of violations, and then spring the death sentence on a guy when we feel like it.

Or if that's too much trouble, just make shit up and / or re-charge the guy a second time for everything he's already served time for or paid fines for.

Yep. You convnced me, Terry. I feel better about the game already.

 screwy
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2013, 10:26:39 AM »

That's the cover story, the one that has grown wings...not unlike Dutrow's supposed "70+ drug violations" that ignorant people walk around yapping about.

On this forum, you are the only one who yaps about that. The rest of us have read this subject enough to know his 10 year suspension was for his cumulative transgressions of all types, and know that the suspension specifically reads something about being a disgrace to racing etc., not "70 drug violations".

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The inspiration for the 10 year penalty was because he had the audacity to try to fight the charges

It was for his lifetime of acting like he was above the rules. We know he can obey the rules, because he's been doing it quite nicely ever since this ruling came down. But before that, he acted like they didn't apply to guys like him. THAT was the inspiration.

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So, I'm stumped.

Stumped AND not answering the question of what other trainer has been running his business in the same "rules do not apply to me" manner as Dutrow was running his before they slapped him.

Quote
Or if that's too much trouble, just make shit up and / or re-charge the guy a second time for everything he's already served time for or paid fines for.

Cumulative punishment just like taking away your driver's license for too many violations. And, like a driver's license, a trainer's license is a privilege, not a right.

Here's even a timely update on the subject:

"According to RCI records, Dutrow has incurred more penalties for breaking racing’s rules than any other major active trainer."

http://www.drf.com/news/mark-simon-dutrow-finally-caught-past-transgressions
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 11:07:30 AM by honest & balanced terry » Report to moderator   Logged

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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2013, 11:11:40 AM »

On this forum, you are the only one who yaps about that. The rest of us have read this subject enough to know his 10 year suspension was for his cumulative transgressions of all types, and know that the suspension specifically reads something about being a disgrace to racing etc., not "70 drug violations".

False. I've had to correct a number of people here about this. On this forum.

And I seriously doubt that many people here have read the entire text of the suspension ruling.

Cumulative punishment just like taking away your driver's license for too many violations. And, like a driver's license, a trainer's license is a privilege, not a right.

Perhaps, but the standards for taking away your driver's license is codified, and even with that, there are provisions in place for restricted driving hours so you can continue to earn a living.

In contrast, Dutrow's suspension was made up out of thin air, on the fly. That's how third world countries operate.
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CLOCKERbiggestal
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« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2013, 11:22:20 AM »

NOBODY at a decent track got 10 years. You're simply lying to yourself if you don't think they are trying to make an example out of Dutrow.



64 violations. Thats enough example for me.

everyone knows he juices.

do the crime

do the time

 clocker biggestal
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2013, 11:47:12 AM »

False. I've had to correct a number of people here about this. On this forum.

You did that some time ago. But as of now, you're the only one who keeps yapping about it.

Quote
And I seriously doubt that many people here have read the entire text of the suspension ruling.

"Entire text" or not, we all know by now what the actual charges are, and they're not the 70 drug violation straw man you keep batting.
   
Quote
Perhaps, but the standards for taking away your driver's license is codified, and even with that, there are provisions in place for restricted driving hours so you can continue to earn a living.

Do tell us how many professional drivers, like truck drivers, whose primary business is driving, are allowed to keep driving to make a living when they have their license lifted. This is about getting Dutrow out of the business of training, not some peripherally related activity.

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In contrast, Dutrow's suspension was made up out of thin air, on the fly. That's how third world countries operate.

This isn't a matter of law.
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« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2013, 12:35:24 PM »

You did that some time ago. But as of now, you're the only one who keeps yapping about it.

Uh huh.

Then, as if on cue, along comes Biggest Al, who only knows Dutrow has 64 violations (and his "everyone knows he juices" nonsense)...but he doesn't have a clue how many are for drug overages, and how many are for having tires that are low on air, or for not brushing his teeth, or some other equally trivial shyte. Good call, Terry!  laughing guy

The truth is, folks here and elsewhere aren't as educated on this matter as you would leave us to believe; if they were, more people besides me and Niatross would likely be of the opinion that Dutrow's penalty is excessive.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2013, 01:10:51 PM »

The truth is, folks here and elsewhere aren't as educated on this matter as you would leave us to believe; if they were, more people besides me and Niatross would likely be of the opinion that Dutrow's penalty is excessive.

Plenty of people are plenty educated about it, and feel the penalty is NOT excessive. The guy obviously doesn't, or didn't, care about the rules that govern his profession, and IMHO therefore does not belong in that profession, anymore than a speeding/DUI/whatever recidivist belongs behind the wheel of an 18 wheeler. A mere 10 years is light.

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« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2013, 01:58:10 PM »


The truth is, folks here and elsewhere aren't as educated on this matter as you would leave us to believe; if they were, more people besides me and Niatross would likely be of the opinion that Dutrow's penalty is excessive.


Me too.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2013, 02:08:43 PM »

Me too.

Well, the bottom line is that in the opinion of the people who are most educated on all facets of this case and Dutrow's long history, the regulators, it's not excessive, and as long as the courts continue to agree with them, it really doesn't matter what anyone on this forum thinks.
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« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2013, 02:57:41 PM »

...and as long as the courts continue to agree with them...

Um...what court has "agreed" with the regulators that the 10 year suspension isn't excessive?

Let's not read things into the rulings that simply aren't there.
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« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2013, 03:10:19 PM »

Well, the bottom line is that in the opinion of the people who are most educated on all facets of this case and Dutrow's long history, the regulators, it's not excessive, and as long as the courts continue to agree with them, it really doesn't matter what anyone on this forum thinks.

But I am sure you will allow that we can all have differing opinions of a sentence from a legal ruling, even if we aren't the most educated on all facets of the case.  I think Blago was a corrupt and stupid politician, but he didn't deserve 14 years.  I don't think Dutrow deserved 10 years. Just my opinion.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2013, 03:32:24 PM »

Um...what court has "agreed" with the regulators that the 10 year suspension isn't excessive?

Um ... that's not what I wrote.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2013, 03:35:18 PM »

But I am sure you will allow that we can all have differing opinions of a sentence from a legal ruling, even if we aren't the most educated on all facets of the case.  I think Blago was a corrupt and stupid politician, but he didn't deserve 14 years.  I don't think Dutrow deserved 10 years. Just my opinion.

Agree totally, but HV's original claim regarding him and niatroll, with which you seemed to agree, was that if more people were more educated they'd think it was excessive, and I was simply saying that the MOST educated people on the subject think it was just about right.
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« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2013, 04:28:47 PM »

Agree totally, but HV's original claim regarding him and niatroll, with which you seemed to agree, was that if more people were more educated they'd think it was excessive, and I was simply saying that the MOST educated people on the subject think it was just about right.

Sentencing has always seemed like a subjective science to me. I just know it's not good to be the one who is being made an example to deter others, whether it was a witch hunt or not. 
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« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2013, 09:35:48 PM »

I just know it's not good to be the one who is being made an example to deter others, whether it was a witch hunt or not. 

1. Fairly astute observation, as being "made an example" involves penalty / punishment over and above what is fair, and,

2. It's a witch hunt, alright. This will be apparent over time to those that haven't figured it out yet...or don't want to.
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TheRedMile
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« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2013, 09:36:11 PM »

But I am sure you will allow that we can all have differing opinions of a sentence from a legal ruling, even if we aren't the most educated on all facets of the case.  I think Blago was a corrupt and stupid politician, but he didn't deserve 14 years.  I don't think Dutrow deserved 10 years. Just my opinion.

at least in blago's case they were federal guidelines as to sentencing
too much in racing is not as set when it comes to rules and the penalties for breaking them
blago's biggest prob was getting caught lying when he went to see the feds without a lawyer,after that he was screwed
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hungry
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« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2013, 10:45:46 PM »

If "we gotta start somewhere"...why hasn't there been any other major busts since Dutrow got pinched over 2 years ago?

What -- NOBODY has done anything wrong since? Do you believe that?

I want racing cleaned up as much as anybody else, but I want it done RIGHT and I want it done FAIRLY. Making an example out of Dutrow -- while doing nothing else of significance in more than 2 years -- is simply window dressing. The people here that would have you believe that what is happening to Dutrow is just are merely being vindictive -- if they can't be a winning gambler because of "the juice"  Roll Eyes  at least we can fvck over a winning trainer. Feels good to the small minded.

You're a  better man than me because i just want racing cleaned up and i dont care how they do it.

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