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Author Topic: Around and around we go  (Read 5082 times)
thoroughbred
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« Reply #75 on: January 06, 2013, 11:44:58 PM »

We could wish you showed some respect to the veterinarian profession. You are accusing any number of vets of either malpractice or outright malfeasance in covering up a fatal, communicative disease.


You are the one who brought this up. I don't really care who is blaming whom, just be consistent with your outrage over it.
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jrstark
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« Reply #76 on: January 06, 2013, 11:59:28 PM »

Outrage? Try logic.

Why would multiple veterinary professionals put their careers and reputations on the line? Why go against everything they've been taught?

You just don't cover up an outbreak because you feel like it or don't want the hassle.
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thoroughbred
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« Reply #77 on: January 07, 2013, 12:14:36 AM »

I will let Equiforce argue that theory. My problem is you are happy to jump in when she says something you disagree with or feel is unproven, Yet Terry constantly accuses horsemen of spreading the virus across the back side with zero proof and not a peep. How does anyone know how this is spreading? How does he? Could it be a bird hopping around in some infected snot and then flying to another barn? Who knows. Could be. The point is he doesn't have a clue how it is spreading, so maybe he should quit accusing others of some wrong doing as well. Perhaps?
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #78 on: January 07, 2013, 12:25:48 AM »

Outrage? Try logic.

Why would multiple veterinary professionals put their careers and reputations on the line? Why go against everything they've been taught?

You just don't cover up an outbreak because you feel like it or don't want the hassle.

There wasn't any outbreak, that's the thing. There was one sick horse that those who actually know anything (including the clinic staff, presumably) say died of pneumonia. No other horses, out of all the Midwest horses that spent the summer at Haw, and traveled to AP or wherever else, got sick.
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« Reply #79 on: January 07, 2013, 05:31:34 AM »

Has anyone been watching the news lately about the human flu epidemic that is spreading in record breaking numbers this year?  It was stated on ABC news a human sneeze or cough can blow the virus up to 25 feet.  From what I have read about the equine herpes the horses can blow it 30-35 feet.  Would that not make some of the so called "sanitation protocol" a bit useless?  One cough or sneeze and at least all the horses in the neighboring stalls are potentially exposed.  The stalls are set so close together here the horses can sniff noses with their neighbor.  Pigeons snack from the open air manure pickup then roost on top of barns. 
Horses are exposed to the herpes from a very young age.  So I would be safe to say that the herpes virus is endemic to the horse population like the flu is to the human population.  Our practising veterinarian believes this and so do I.  The real questions here is why it has mutated to the deadly neurological form.  Why did the horses that got the deadly neuralgic form suffer so while some barns and horses on the backside were missed?   The missed barns were training and racing right beside the "exposed" horse's sharing gallop boys with infected barns. 
I have also heard from a Veterinarian that last summer at Arlington there were quite a few horses with a fever and the "snots"-could there have possibly been an outbreak of Rhino going on there?
If one of the horses that developed neurological symptoms owner asked their trainer if their horse had been vaccinated what is the trainer going to say to that owner?  I am in no way accusing the unfortunate people who had horses affected by this deadly mutant neurological form of not vaccinating their horses-it is just a point to ponder.
Hopefully with this two weeks off the virus will be eradicated from the Hawthorne horses.  If you search on line and read about some of the other neuralgic outbreaks and check the morbidity rates of those outbreaks-with 1900 horses stabled back here this outbreak could have been a lot worse than it has been.
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RacetrackRailbird
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« Reply #80 on: January 07, 2013, 03:38:18 PM »



Ok all you Hawthorne supporters now what say you.  Perhaps you would like to be confined to your barn, unable to properly exercise in 10 degree weather for 14 days.  Illinois racing is a total disgrace.


You still seem unable to comprehend that NOBODY CARES about HAWTHORNE!!!!


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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #81 on: January 07, 2013, 04:09:56 PM »


You still seem unable to comprehend that NOBODY CARES about HAWTHORNE!!!!

No, that's wrong.
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« Reply #82 on: January 07, 2013, 04:52:36 PM »


You still seem unable to comprehend that NOBODY CARES about HAWTHORNE!!!!




Terry's right.  Hawthorne has an important place in Illinois racing.  I personally believe that the ITHA leans too far in favoring HAW over AP, but with that being said, the fall and spring opportunities afforded Illinois horsemen by Hawthorne is crucial to the survival of racing in this state. 

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RacetrackRailbird
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« Reply #83 on: January 07, 2013, 08:38:17 PM »

Terry's right.  Hawthorne has an important place in Illinois racing. 


Yeah,  an important place barely above Fairmount Park.  Even that is only a product of the population base.


To be more specific:  Nobody in the real world cares about Hawthorne.


If Hawthorne shut its doors tomorrow - nobody would care, and nobody would miss it.

Should you need further understanding  on this subject, I suggest you study the proximity of Sportsman's Park to Hawthorne, and figure it out for yourselves.



At least a recent Derby winner came from Sportsman's...


Hawthorne, by contrast, isn't even recognized along the Road to the Kentucky Derby.

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beobob
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« Reply #84 on: January 07, 2013, 09:42:26 PM »



Hawthorne, by contrast, isn't even recognized along the Road to the Kentucky Derby.



You are probably right nationally.  Top trainers made that decision long before Churchill did.  I would like to see them cut the purse to 250K.  Why raise it for at best 2 nd tier horses (if that)
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #85 on: January 07, 2013, 09:45:51 PM »

To be more specific:  Nobody in the real world cares about Hawthorne.

And that's precisely why we've recently had these long threads about it.  thumbs up

And also why you went to all the trouble to sign in just to post in bold letters that "no one cares about" the track you just posted about.  Roll Eyes

This is the "Chicago Barn to Wire" forum, and just like Beobob wrote, it matters to Chicago racing and Illinois racing.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 09:47:31 PM by honest & balanced terry » Report to moderator   Logged

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APCD Dan
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« Reply #86 on: January 07, 2013, 09:56:48 PM »


Yeah,  an important place barely above Fairmount Park.  Even that is only a product of the population base.


To be more specific:  Nobody in the real world cares about Hawthorne.


If Hawthorne shut its doors tomorrow - nobody would care, and nobody would miss it.

Should you need further understanding  on this subject, I suggest you study the proximity of Sportsman's Park to Hawthorne, and figure it out for yourselves.



At least a recent Derby winner came from Sportsman's...


Hawthorne, by contrast, isn't even recognized along the Road to the Kentucky Derby.



Pretty harsh comment.  I think a lot of people would care.  The local horsemen would care.  Hawthorne gets a good offtrack handle, so bettors across the country care.  Illinois racing should care.  A lot of track workers care.  The Illinois Derby would be a good prep if Churchill had not pulled the plug on them.

Sportsman Park had to go.  You cannot have two tracks in this day and age right next to each other.  Hawthorne was the bigger track so it should stay.  Isn't the Wirtz booze warehouse there now?  Better use of the property.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #87 on: January 07, 2013, 10:09:53 PM »

Pretty harsh comment.  I think a lot of people would care.  The local horsemen would care.  Hawthorne gets a good offtrack handle, so bettors across the country care.  Illinois racing should care.  A lot of track workers care.  The Illinois Derby would be a good prep if Churchill had not pulled the plug on them.

It seems to me that if being recognized along the road to the Kentucky Derby is the measure of a track's relevance to those in the real world, then our other local track would also have to be considered meaningless.
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Fast n Firm
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« Reply #88 on: January 07, 2013, 10:18:01 PM »

Pretty harsh comment.  I think a lot of people would care.  The local horsemen would care.  Hawthorne gets a good offtrack handle, so bettors across the country care.  Illinois racing should care.  A lot of track workers care.  The Illinois Derby would be a good prep if Churchill had not pulled the plug on them.

Sportsman Park had to go.  You cannot have two tracks in this day and age right next to each other.  Hawthorne was the bigger track so it should stay.  Isn't the Wirtz booze warehouse there now?  Better use of the property.

You have to be kidding...Sportsman's was a class operation...They took pride in the TOTAL operation, backside and frontside.  BIGGER is not always better!!
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #89 on: January 08, 2013, 01:15:15 PM »

You have to be kidding...Sportsman's was a class operation...They took pride in the TOTAL operation, backside and frontside. 

Except of course when they turned it into a car track.
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Fast n Firm
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« Reply #90 on: January 09, 2013, 06:16:01 PM »

Actually, even after that extremely poor business decision.  Sportsman's was ALWAYS well maintained.
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Equiforce
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« Reply #91 on: January 10, 2013, 08:58:21 PM »

Jrstark,
No, I don't think the pony theory is about accusing horsemen. 
I'm sure MOST would agree that it was not intentional. 

It is important however that the virus be traced. 
I keep hearing that the pony died at the clinic. Whether it was the pony or not, obviously, they transported him to the clinic after he became seriously Ill. 
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #92 on: January 11, 2013, 10:34:11 AM »

It is important however that the virus be traced.

If it is, why isn't it also important to trace how it jumped out of your good friend's barn and into yours?

But as far as the pony goes, it isn't really possible now, is it. There's no dead pony to test, and no other horses from its barn over the summer got sick and died so they weren't tested either. All we have is the official cause of death from the clinic, a clinic I presume most horsemen find competent.

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I keep hearing that the pony died at the clinic.

I keep reading that horses can just spontaneously shed the latent virus at any old time, due to stress or whatever. What's the evidence against that having happened? What would rule out some horse having been exposed at AP, being shipped across town, and then presenting later? How about if there was infected straw in some shipping trailer? And how would we go about tracing any of that?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 10:48:20 AM by honest & balanced terry » Report to moderator   Logged

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Equiforce
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« Reply #93 on: January 11, 2013, 05:28:58 PM »

About as likely as you taking a long ride on the shutty train
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #94 on: January 11, 2013, 06:17:54 PM »

About as likely as you taking a long ride on the shutty train

Or you, for that matter, but who's keeping score.
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Equiforce
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« Reply #95 on: January 11, 2013, 11:45:53 PM »

Everyone. 
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laurajean
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« Reply #96 on: January 12, 2013, 03:45:19 PM »

Do you horsemen think there will be fewer stables at Hawthorne for the spring meet?
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #97 on: January 12, 2013, 04:01:26 PM »

Everyone. 

 laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy

You were truly born to argue, weren't you.
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Equiforce
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« Reply #98 on: January 12, 2013, 10:32:45 PM »

ROFL....has anyone ever refered to you as the kettle ? 

And just because I don't take your crap....doesn't mean I'm arguing.....oftentimes....I'm correcting you.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #99 on: January 12, 2013, 10:35:32 PM »

ROFL....has anyone ever refered to you as the kettle ? 

That's exactly what I was telling you ... about you.

Quote
And just because I don't take your crap....doesn't mean I'm arguing.....oftentimes....I'm correcting you.

No, you're just trying to get in the last word, no matter what or how off the topic. Equiforce: Born to argue.
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