Chicago Barn to Wire Breeders' Cup Handicapping Tournaments
Home | News | Bloggers | Forums | Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Contact Us | Search


October 24, 2014, 11:32:29 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you don't remember your password, email me.

New  registration procedures -- Some ISPs have been bouncing the verification emails.  Please email me to be activated or if you have any problems.  Click Contact Us above.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Around and around we go  (Read 5536 times)
Chartwell
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 308




Ignore
« on: December 30, 2012, 02:21:04 PM »

Here are some facts.
1: yet another dead horse. bradlee Rainwater
2: clock has been reset again
3: horses are stuck and can't be properly exercised
4: numerous other racetracks have indicated they won't take horses from Hawthorne
5: Jim Miller long gone and no one is around to answer questions
6: ITHA what a joke

Ok all you Hawthorne supporters now what say you.  Perhaps you would like to be confined to your barn, unable to properly exercise in 10 degree weather for 14 days.  Illinois racing is a total disgrace.
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12624

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2012, 02:26:45 PM »

Ok all you Hawthorne supporters now what say you.  Perhaps you would like to be confined to your barn, unable to properly exercise in 10 degree weather for 14 days.

The suggestion offered previously by several was to close down the entire meet for an indefinite period of time and confine horses to their stalls. That's even less exercise than being allowed to walk, and potentially for a longer time. To me that looks like a bad choice either way. 
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
Chartwell
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 308




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2012, 02:51:00 PM »

Terry the difference to me is the following

1: racing at Hawthorne ends today so Hawthorne does not lose any race days
2: 5 or more horses are dead that might not have been if this was done when the virus was discovered
3: everyone is stuck at Hawthorne and cannot leave and race elsewhere due to extension of the quarantine.
4: other tracks are not going to accept the horses even after the quarantine is lifted
5: owners now have bills, trainers can't train and the only one not losing money over this right now in Hawthorne with there bullshit excuse that they need the do track maintence when it's zero degrees out.

Yes I'm pissed because if this works then quite frankly it should have been protocol 2 months ago not now.  ITHA were are you.
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12624

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2012, 03:00:42 PM »

Terry the difference to me is the following

1: racing at Hawthorne ends today so Hawthorne does not lose any race days

Neither do horsemen or their employees. They all got to race and compete for purses the entire Fall meet.

Quote
5: owners now have bills, trainers can't train and the only one not losing money over this right now in Hawthorne

Owners would have had bills, and trainers would not have been able to train, if the meet had been shut down in October, or November, as well. And Hawthorne is also going lose, or at least spend, money if they truly do peel up and fix or replace the track.

Quote
Yes I'm pissed because if this works then quite frankly it should have been protocol 2 months ago not now.  ITHA were are you.

Horsemen could have refused to send their horses out to race and kept them isolated in their stalls at any time. No entries in the box, no racing. You don't need ITHA leadership to do that.
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
Equiforce
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 580




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2012, 03:08:52 PM »

Chartwell,
We both know that Hawthorne isn't going to pull back that track...you are 100% right.
And no one ever suggested we keep our horses in their stalls.  That is something Dr. dawn refered to, when we were actually suggesting isolating on a barn to barn basis.  Isolating doesn't mean you can't jig jog your horses around the shed for 30 min a day. 
ALOT of the horsemen called this move by Hawthorne a month or so ago...knowing that they would make their big "token" move on Jan1.

And of course we would still have bills, but our horses would have an opportunity to race at other tracks, to offset those bills....

You should be pissed....MORE horsemen should be pissed.  I'm very worried about the little outfits. 
Report to moderator   Logged
Red Ketcher
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 619




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2012, 03:12:41 PM »

  
  Both Chartwell and HB&T have vigorously set forth their views .  

  Whose view most closely resembles your own view ?

  My vote goes to:     Chartwell
Report to moderator   Logged
beobob
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1974




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2012, 03:12:57 PM »


Yes I'm pissed because if this works then quite frankly it should have been protocol 2 months ago not now.  ITHA were are you.


I have a hard time blaming Hawthorne for this.  Hawthorne's job is doing what is best for Hawthorne, they don't have a responsibility for the Horsemen, that's the ITHA's job - to look out for our interests, and fight for us when our interests conflict with the track's interest.  

If the ITHA didn't go to Hawthorne to demand no new horses be allowed to ship in, or a protocol for claimed horses, or any other demands, why would or should Hawthorne do anything?  I might be in the minority, but I believe we would have seen a different ITHA response had this happened at AP.
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12624

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2012, 03:13:55 PM »

You should be pissed....MORE horsemen should be pissed.  I'm very worried about the little outfits. 

Many of "the little outfits" spend the winter in the barns at Hawthorne anyhow.
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
Chartwell
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 308




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2012, 03:28:22 PM »

Yes Terry but many turn their horses out so they can just be a horse and get a break. Others train and run at Turfway and other tracks.  This is not an option now since the virus was handled the way it was.  Yes we ran for purses and money but most of us have little or no choice. At $2,000 per horse per month the bills add up quickly especially when you have no options.  With 5 horses on the backside I am looking at $15,000 over the next six weeks with no opportunity to ship and run or turn my horses out for needed r and r.

Finally. No one can make up for the lost of racehorses to this virus.  A human outbreak would never have been handled like this.  Yes horses aren't humans but as owners we are responsible for them.
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12624

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2012, 03:36:46 PM »

Yes Terry but many turn their horses out so they can just be a horse and get a break. Others train and run at Turfway and other tracks.  This is not an option now

Yes, I do understand this.

Quote
Yes we ran for purses and money but most of us have little or no choice. At $2,000 per horse per month the bills add up quickly especially when you have no options.  With 5 horses on the backside I am looking at $15,000 over the next six weeks with no opportunity to ship and run or turn my horses out for needed r and r.

It would have been the same $15,000 nut if the meet was shut down for six weeks starting mid-October, correct? Plus your horses would have lost all their training.

Quote
Finally. No one can make up for the lost of racehorses to this virus.  A human outbreak would never have been handled like this.  Yes horses aren't humans but as owners we are responsible for them.

That's certainly the toughest part for lots of people to accept. But not all people view their equine property, or even that of others, in exactly the same way. 
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
Equiforce
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 580




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2012, 10:07:41 PM »

Obviously
Report to moderator   Logged
jrstark
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6179



« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2012, 12:22:55 AM »

The Rainwater horse is NOT dead, he is doing well. He's positive, but nobody seems to know if he is even neurologic.
Report to moderator   Logged
Equiforce
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 580




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2012, 12:48:16 AM »

Jr, I will call tomorrow and see if I can get any straight answers. 
Report to moderator   Logged
sodgod
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 459




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2012, 08:55:12 AM »

Chartwell,

Your comments are right on  trophy.  IMO Haw. reasons for the track maint. don't pass my  BSmeter meter.  Which horsemen have stepped forward to complain about the condition of the surface?  Temps all throughout the meet have been above freezing with almost zero snow.  I have not heard about the usual speed bias let alone a increase # of breakdowns.   Equiforce please have dale take some pics of the surface being bladed back.  Btw who is going to drive the lead tractor now that Jim Miller is gone?  I hope it's not their way to trying to stop the spread of the virus but I would not be suprised if it is.

Sod
Report to moderator   Logged
Equiforce
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 580




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2012, 11:06:47 AM »

I have every intention of photographically following the track being pulled back.  But the way it is worded in the statement, it makes me think that they are just going to "check" out a couple of questionable areas.  I actually haven't heard there has been an unusual amount of breakdowns or experienced our horses coming back unsound. 
AND AGAIN, isn't it the state vets and ITHA's responsibility to bring these issues up with Management ?  Did they just notice the "issues" with the track last week ?

Hawthorne is so predictable. 
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12624

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2012, 11:20:10 AM »

AND AGAIN, isn't it the state vets and ITHA's responsibility to bring these issues up with Management ?  Did they just notice the "issues" with the track last week ?

"Hawthorne Track to Close for Training, January 1-14

Upon recommendation from the ITHA Track Committee, Hawthorne and the ITHA have agreed to close the Hawthorne racing surface for training from January 1 -14. "
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
Marcus Hersh
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1103




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2012, 02:41:58 PM »

Just filed story for drf.com (and print).

Confirmed that Rainwater horse neither dead nor neurologically symptomatic. Fever & positive. However, Dept. of Ag will not restart quarantine clock. Target date for quarantine end remains Jan. 9.

Here's the editorial part of this post: Isn't there a good chance that a decision like this, which smacks of "lets just get it over with," is likely to lead out-of-state venues to further prolong the period during which they won't accept horses that've been at Hawthorne? If they (the other tracks) can't be sure what standards have been in place, and there's a layer of fuzziness, I'd have to think they'll be even more reluctant to open the gates.
Report to moderator   Logged
Equiforce
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 580




Ignore
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2012, 03:17:24 PM »

I'm very glad to hear that the Rainwater horse is doing well.

I don't understand how the clock isn't being reset.

And I believe Oaklawn is going to accept the Ice horses.  If/when that happens, I think everyone will be cheering for Tim and his family and owners.  He defied the odds. 
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12624

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2012, 05:07:19 PM »

Here's the editorial part of this post: Isn't there a good chance that a decision like this, which smacks of "lets just get it over with," is likely to lead out-of-state venues to further prolong the period during which they won't accept horses that've been at Hawthorne? If they (the other tracks) can't be sure what standards have been in place, and there's a layer of fuzziness, I'd have to think they'll be even more reluctant to open the gates.

All you have to do is read this forum to see the kind of pressure there is to "get it over with". People want to get their horses out of there, even if there's no other track that will take them.
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
brivolta
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 763




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2012, 05:23:47 PM »

I'm very glad to hear that the Rainwater horse is doing well.

I don't understand how the clock isn't being reset.

And I believe Oaklawn is going to accept the Ice horses.  If/when that happens, I think everyone will be cheering for Tim and his family and owners.  He defied the odds. 

I thought clock reset happened only with neurological symptoms.
Report to moderator   Logged
thoroughbred
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 965




Ignore
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2012, 06:10:29 PM »

I thought clock reset happened only with neurological symptoms.

This whole thing is kinda like the Who's on first routine.
Report to moderator   Logged
betandwin
Full Member
***
Posts: 147




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2012, 06:51:17 PM »

Chartwell started a thread based on false information. It would be nice if posters got the facts correct before going on a rant.
Report to moderator   Logged
HorseVoice*
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4420




Ignore
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2012, 07:05:18 PM »

Chartwell started a thread based on false information.

Yes, but he's an owner, and he "knows" more than we commoners do...so it's OK.  Wink
Report to moderator   Logged
betandwin
Full Member
***
Posts: 147




Ignore
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2012, 07:14:07 PM »

Especially since the genious started his post with "here are some facts" and the first "fact" was wrong.
Report to moderator   Logged
Chartwell
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 308




Ignore
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2012, 08:39:24 PM »

I had what I still believe to be accurate information.  I have everything to gain if they do not reset the clock.  No offense to Marcus but the date to end the quarentine is not here yet.  Anyone want even money it gets extended?  We don't have an update from Hawthorne.  Nothing will make me happier than getting my horses out of Stickney ASAP.
Report to moderator   Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.127 seconds with 16 queries.

Home
Upcoming events
Arlington Million
Horse slaughter in IL
Racing TV schedule
News Updates
Legislation

Galloping Out

Previous stories

Arlington
Balmoral
Hawthorne
Maywood
Chicago Sun-Times
Chicago Tribune
Blood-Horse
Daily Racing Form
Thoroughbred Times
Harness Link
Illinois Racing Board

 

2014

Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2013

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2012

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

More ebay items

 

Home | News Updates | Bloggers | Forums | Search
Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Advertising | Contact Us

Copyright © 2000-2014 Chicago Barn to Wire. All rights reserved.
Privacy policy