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Author Topic: ITHA election  (Read 2256 times)
g3tPWNed_24
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« on: December 11, 2012, 04:56:14 PM »

well if you read the front page of barn to wire you see who won the presidential race. Not really surprising considering granitz hasnt been the most liked person on the backside over the years but i still voted for him cuz obviously things need to change around here but props to him for running &trying. guess its 3 more years of the same o same o
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2012, 05:14:45 PM »

well if you read the front page of barn to wire you see who won the presidential race. Not really surprising considering granitz hasnt been the most liked person on the backside over the years but i still voted for him cuz obviously things need to change around here but props to him for running &trying. guess its 3 more years of the same o same o

Seems like a pretty lop-sided result in favor of the incumbents. Must not be nearly as many horsemen unhappy with the ITHA leadership as it might seem from some of the noise in the little corner of the universe represented by this forum.
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g3tPWNed_24
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« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2012, 05:22:27 PM »

yes they were all thrilled at the start of arlington this past meet and thrilled at hawthorne how theyve stepped up sarcasm. as i said and as i heard granitz isnt the most liked guy on the backside, its a shame someone else didnt run against campbell. You would think for someone making almost what a 100k a year holding that position that he would produce better results


Seems like a pretty lop-sided result in favor of the incumbents. Must not be nearly as many horsemen unhappy with the ITHA leadership as it might seem from some of the noise in the little corner of the universe represented by this forum.
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g3tPWNed_24
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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2012, 05:25:01 PM »

for the fairmount people: LANNY BROOKS FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Smiley
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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2012, 05:26:43 PM »

Seems like a pretty lop-sided result in favor of the incumbents. Must not be nearly as many horsemen unhappy with the ITHA leadership as it might seem from some of the noise in the little corner of the universe represented by this forum.

I think the vote total has more to do with the by-law changes that make it almost impossible for any challenger to beat an incumbent.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2012, 06:05:30 PM »

I think the vote total has more to do with the by-law changes that make it almost impossible for any challenger to beat an incumbent.

Details, please.
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« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2012, 07:16:04 PM »

Thank you Beobob...I wonder if the know it all is aware of the by-law changes....I voted for Anthony, so did my owners.  Dales ballot, "got lost " in the mail.  Asked for a replacement...it will probably get here next week. 
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2012, 09:18:14 PM »

Thank you Beobob...I wonder if the know it all is aware of the by-law changes

I know I'm not aware, as I'm not in the ITHA anymore, which is if course why I asked Bob. And I can feel comfortable asking in public because I don't pretend to know everything, or think I know everything, or claim to be always correct. That "know all" describes someone else quite a bit better, actually.

Quote
....I voted for Anthony, so did my owners.

And your side lost. Go figure.
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« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2012, 10:37:25 PM »

My "side" didn't lose...just so you know...ALL OF THE HORSEMAN LOST....

And that's a FACT.
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mel4600
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« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2012, 11:50:17 PM »

Illinois never can get an election right. Denise...you need to be the President.  Wink
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zimms1948
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« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2012, 06:44:11 AM »

yes they were all thrilled at the start of arlington this past meet and thrilled at hawthorne how theyve stepped up sarcasm. as i said and as i heard granitz isnt the most liked guy on the backside, its a shame someone else didnt run against campbell. You would think for someone making almost what a 100k a year holding that position that he would produce better results


Check your facts. No 100,000. Gives up most of his time to try to keep the racetracks doing what they should be doing willingly so we can all survive.
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zimms1948
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« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2012, 07:00:25 AM »

Thank you Baobab...I wonder if the know it all is aware of the by-law changes....I voted for Anthony, so did my owners.  Dales ballot, "got lost " in the mail.  Asked for a replacement...it will probably get here next week. 

How is the race Track Chaplaincy doing under Tony G? Has all but disappeared from public awareness.
Tony gets the volunteers in to help and then they become owners. He also leaves for FL. for 5 months and everything grinds to a halt.
The chaplain he hired took Sundays off, wouldn't stay for the races and I only saw him walk the backside once in the years he was there.
Budget should be reviewed to see if one of the biggest racing cities in the US could have a better chaplaincy presence.
Let's put words into actions. any individuals with comments on how things are running at the track should step up and help.

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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2012, 08:53:41 AM »

My "side" didn't lose...just so you know...ALL OF THE HORSEMAN LOST....

And that's a FACT.

 Roll Eyes

I'm beginning to see a pattern here, though ... the racetrack is stupid, the vets are stupid, the State is stupid, the other horsemen are ALL stupid and not real horsemen well maybe not my buddies, and now those other voters are stupid, too.
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« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2012, 09:02:29 AM »

G3, just curious, where did you get $100,000?
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g3tPWNed_24
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« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2012, 01:09:46 PM »

i said making ALMOST 100k a year, i heard the number is in the 80's to be more exact. Maybe someone can disclose the exact number of what the salary is?
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g3tPWNed_24
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« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2012, 01:12:52 PM »

LOL i was with ya all the way till ya got to the horsemen even tho you were being sarcastic anyways. I think some of the horsemen have been stupid, others have been arrogant/dont give a fu*k.



Roll Eyes

I'm beginning to see a pattern here, though ... the racetrack is stupid, the vets are stupid, the State is stupid, the other horsemen are ALL stupid and not real horsemen well maybe not my buddies, and now those other voters are stupid, too.
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g3tPWNed_24
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« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2012, 01:15:16 PM »

Mary B, where was the ITHA from the start since the herpes brokeout at hawthorne? they came out late, halfhearted, and basically piss-poor attempts to cover their a$$ IMO


Check your facts. No 100,000. Gives up most of his time to try to keep the racetracks doing what they should be doing willingly so we can all survive.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2012, 01:15:37 PM »

LOL i was with ya all the way till ya got to the horsemen even tho you were being sarcastic anyways. I think some of the horsemen have been stupid, others have been arrogant/dont give a fu*k.

Those latter are the ones covered under the "not real horsemen" clause.
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« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2012, 01:38:38 PM »

I'm not sure but I think the actual number that Campbell is given as salary is not disclosed to the general public or the general ITHA membership (I could be wrong, I am just a passive member). The by-laws I have accessible only say the salary is determined by the Board of Directors and no specific amount is given. I have heard it is quite high too, compared to the work he actually gets done (read: very little).
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2012, 02:42:23 PM »

I'm not sure but I think the actual number that Campbell is given as salary is not disclosed to the general public or the general ITHA membership (I could be wrong, I am just a passive member). The by-laws I have accessible only say the salary is determined by the Board of Directors and no specific amount is given. I have heard it is quite high too, compared to the work he actually gets done (read: very little).

What's recently changed in those by-laws that would make it impossible to defeat an incumbent?

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Chris Szulc
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« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2012, 03:17:09 PM »

What's recently changed in those by-laws that would make it impossible to defeat an incumbent?



That's what beobob said, and I am as interested as you are in hearing his response. I have not look deeply into changes lately.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2012, 03:34:25 PM »

That's what beobob said, and I am as interested as you are in hearing his response. I have not look deeply into changes lately.

Right, I understand, I thought you might know since beobob hadn't replied.

The bylaws are online at the site but you need a login.
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Chris Szulc
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« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2012, 03:44:34 PM »

The ones uploaded are from January 2009, and I'm not sure myself what changes beobob is mentioning (If they are newer than what is online) so will wait for his reply.
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beobob
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« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2012, 04:36:07 PM »

That's what beobob said, and I am as interested as you are in hearing his response. I have not look deeply into changes lately.

They recently passed rules that prohibited electioneering by anyone (or group - especially race tracks) that might benefit a candidate (you will recall posts being deleted on BTW that were deemed "electioneering"). That coupled with the prohibition of electioneering by mail leaves a challenger with the 300 words allowed in the ballot package, a few minutes at the ITHA general meeting in October, and personal contact or phone calls.  Since the challenger does not have a list of who got ballots how would he know who to contact, and even if he did know who to call where would he get their phone numbers?  The incumbent must have access to all of that because many, if not all of us got phones calls from Mike.  Many wondered where he got our numbers from.

Incumbents have the perc's of office, and that is not unreasonable.  But if the incumbent gets to use his office to communicate with the members whether by phone or ITHA "updates" that can be used to both extoll accomplishments as well as to lay out an agenda for the future, while the challenger gets 300 words and a couple minutes at a sparsely attended meeting, that is unreasonable.  I'm sure many of you noticed that the virus conference call ended with a veiled commercial touting Mike's accomplishments.

The horsemen are the losers in this process because there is no debate, no weighing of competing ideas or visions.  Chris Block was allowed to promote Mike's candidacy in the ballot mailing we received, yet influential members in our industry were told they had to stand down and not be involved in our election.

If you couple the election rules with the new by-law that removes the 2 term limit for President... I don't think that is healthy for our organization.  I know the argument will be, if they're not happy with the job the president is doing, they would have voted him out... That's true but many of our members are involved only peripherally, and if they get an endorsement in their ballot packet from Mr. Illinois Racing for a candidate, most will vote for him or her.  Those who want to be informed can't, because we don't know what the other candidate wants to do, or how he'd do it, 300 words doesn't cut it.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2012, 05:00:35 PM »

It certainly seems as though the phone numbers should be available to all candidates if they are available to incumbents. Or, at least the list of members with home towns, if Mike was looking them up.
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« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2012, 05:44:37 PM »

There has never been a two term limit for anybody.  I would be in favor of that.  Mike's salary is well below 100.  The electioneering clauses have been part of the by-laws for decades.  Tony got beat, plain and simple.
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jrstark
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« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2012, 05:50:20 PM »

Who are these influential members of our industry who were asked to stand down? Were they horsemen?
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beobob
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« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2012, 05:52:28 PM »

There has never been a two term limit for anybody.  I would be in favor of that.  Mike's salary is well below 100.  The electioneering clauses have been part of the by-laws for decades.  Tony got beat, plain and simple.

I agree completely, Tony got beat.  I was answering a question asked of me.  You are wrong about the rule changes.  Term limits were removed and some of the electioneering rules were expanded.  They also changed the way the Ex Dir is hired or fired.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2012, 05:55:21 PM »

I agree completely, Tony got beat.  I was answering a question asked of me.  You are wrong about the rule changes.  Term limits were removed and some of the electioneering rules were expanded.  They also changed the way the Ex Dir is hired or fired.

Could someone post an actual compare and contrast of the limits and electioneering language between what Chris says are 2009 bylaws at the website, with whatever these new ones are?

By the way, I seem to recall, wasn't Tony G. on the ITHA board some years back, and there were lawsuits or something?
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« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2012, 06:02:19 PM »

Who are these influential members of our industry who were asked to stand down? Were they horsemen?


I did not say anyone specifically were asked to stand down I said:

 "influential members in our industry were told they had to stand down and not be involved in our election."

Meaning they were prohibited by the new election rules from backing or endorsing any candidate. 
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« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2012, 06:05:33 PM »

I did not say anyone specifically were asked to stand down I said:

 "influential members in our industry were told they had to stand down and not be involved in our election."

Meaning they were prohibited by the new election rules from backing or endorsing any candidate. 

As pointed out previously, these are not new rules. And again, what influential members in our industry are you talking about?
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« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2012, 06:10:50 PM »

If by influential members of the industry you mean Arlington management that is true.  Both tracks were requested to not get involved.
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beobob
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« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2012, 06:13:48 PM »

As pointed out previously, these are not new rules. And again, what influential members in our industry are you talking about?



You are looking at a tree, I am talking about the forest.  The game is rigged to make it very difficult for a challenger to defeat an incumbent.  If there are term limits it takes care of itself, and new blood gets in.  Without term limits it becomes troubling because you could have officers caring more about staying in office than making the hard choices that could cost them votes but be better for racing.
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« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2012, 06:24:49 PM »

Last election Mike beat Frank.  Election before that Frank beat Joe.  Granted being the incumbent gives you more visibility, but that can also backfire.

Again, there were never term limits.
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beobob
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« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2012, 06:31:58 PM »


Again, there were never term limits.


Maybe I'm wrong then.  I was at the October meeting and I thought for sure I saw the by law change for two terms to none, and the ex director being hired and fired by the board and not the president (which is a good idea)
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« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2012, 06:47:06 PM »

that wasnt too difficult was it? joe was under fire from serious allegations at the time as you most certainly know(were they ever proven true or untrue? seems it was all swept under the carpet in the end), that is the only reason kirby beat him. kirby's speech was awful at the meeting in the old clubhouse at hawthorne. he started off by saying *country accent* "well i dont know much bout anything but i know i can do a better job then whats being done" LOL! Think campbell had a tough opponent first time around? This time granitz, well i dont know him personally and cant say anything one way or the other but for years now on the backside ive heard people speak negatively of him so i dont think he had too big of a following to begin with.

you keep saying its much less than a 100k a year, how much less exactly? cuz ive heard 80 something, and to be honest with the job hes done or lack there of hed be way overpaid getting 50k a year


Last election Mike beat Frank.  Election before that Frank beat Joe.  Granted being the incumbent gives you more visibility, but that can also backfire.

Again, there were never term limits.
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« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2012, 07:23:18 PM »

Less than $50.  Ex Dir less than$100. 

If you were at the meeting when the bylaws were approved, I get the confusion.  We were going off recommendations of the bylaw committee.  That was never a bylaw.
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« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2012, 07:47:49 PM »

The telephone numbers of the members are on record at the ITHA.  We occasionally get texts from them.  (Not personalised, mass texts pertaining to training hours or whatever). So, they do have our phone numbers.
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« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2012, 07:49:48 PM »

Beobob,
I am a member and I was not only asked not to talk about the candidate horse shoe but deleted, just saying..
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« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2012, 07:51:30 PM »

Less than $50.  Ex Dir less than$100. 

If you were at the meeting when the bylaws were approved, I get the confusion.  We were going off recommendations of the bylaw committee.  That was never a bylaw.

Reasonable people resolving differences without bringing mothers into it on BTW.  I could get used to that.

Thanks for the info
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« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2012, 07:53:24 PM »

Beobob...
Maybe what they really need is a woman in office.....
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« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2012, 07:54:22 PM »

Trainers signed up for the text alerts.  It is optional.
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« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2012, 07:56:17 PM »

Beobob...
Maybe what they really need is a woman in office.....

My daughters taught me years ago, girls rule and boys drool.
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« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2012, 07:57:34 PM »

Christine held the office at one time. Either she got tired of it, or the members got tired of her, I don't recall.
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« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2012, 08:28:15 PM »

Yes they did GG.  But that give some parties a more extensive access to numbers.
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« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2012, 08:29:29 PM »

Beobob,
He true is that !!!!
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« Reply #46 on: December 12, 2012, 10:29:13 PM »

Beobob,
He true is that !!!!

Not?
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« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2012, 10:35:33 PM »

Not?

I think she meant to type "how true is that" in response to the phrase my daughters taught me, girls rule - boys drool
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« Reply #48 on: December 12, 2012, 10:59:04 PM »

Thx Beobob, you were correct
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« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2012, 12:49:31 AM »

I think she meant to type "how true is that" in response to the phrase my daughters taught me, girls rule - boys drool

I know. So I answered her.
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« Reply #50 on: December 13, 2012, 02:38:15 AM »

Mary B, where was the ITHA from the start since the herpes brokeout at hawthorne? they came out late, halfhearted, and basically piss-poor attempts to cover their a$$ IMO



Which barn are your horses in?
What did you want done that didn"t get done?















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« Reply #51 on: December 13, 2012, 03:40:54 AM »

Does anyone remember this Louisiana scandal?
 http://www.drf.com/news/louisiana-hbpa-case-fraud-conspiracy-divides-horsemen
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« Reply #52 on: December 13, 2012, 08:27:53 AM »

From those "old" bylaws, nothing about term limits:

"The President shall be elected by the members for a three (3) year term commencing with the fall 2006 election and may continue to run and serve if re-elected."

As far as electioneering rules it just says the Board shall adopt separate rules on those to be distributed to the candidates. They're not part of the bylaws themselves, or at least didn't used to be.
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« Reply #53 on: December 13, 2012, 09:27:55 AM »

Extending the contract of the Ex Director was to make a more consistant transition with a new Pres.  In the past, the first thing every new Pres did was fire the Ex Director, and the next guy came in cold, not knowing the issues and the players, not even being to match names to faces.  With the pending legislation, gaming, ADW, impact fees, the board felt it prudent to have Glen in place regardless of the outcome of the election. 

The way Chicago treats the Ex Director position is different than any other racing jurisdiction.  It's been a perk for the President's friends and owners for a long time.  Other states retain their ex Directors no matter who is Pres. ( ex: Maryland has employed Wayne Wright for 35 years, 8 or 9 Presidents, Marty Maline, Kent Stirling, ... ).

Everything about the job has changed over the years.  We've gone from win, place, show, daily double betting on a handshake with the tracks, being primarily a benevolence organization, to being intimately involved writing legislation.

So yes, that was a change to the bylaws, removing the condition that the ex director serves at the pleasure of the President.
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« Reply #54 on: December 13, 2012, 09:46:01 AM »

Extending the contract of the Ex Director was to make a more consistant transition with a new Pres.  In the past, the first thing every new Pres did was fire the Ex Director, and the next guy came in cold, not knowing the issues and the players, not even being to match names to faces.  With the pending legislation, gaming, ADW, impact fees, the board felt it prudent to have Glen in place regardless of the outcome of the election. 

The way Chicago treats the Ex Director position is different than any other racing jurisdiction.  It's been a perk for the President's friends and owners for a long time.  Other states retain their ex Directors no matter who is Pres. ( ex: Maryland has employed Wayne Wright for 35 years, 8 or 9 Presidents, Marty Maline, Kent Stirling, ... ).

Everything about the job has changed over the years.  We've gone from win, place, show, daily double betting on a handshake with the tracks, being primarily a benevolence organization, to being intimately involved writing legislation.

So yes, that was a change to the bylaws, removing the condition that the ex director serves at the pleasure of the President.

That was a good change, competence over comradery
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« Reply #55 on: December 13, 2012, 01:17:14 PM »

Christine held the office at one time. Either she got tired of it, or the members got tired of her, I don't recall.
Yes, she did and I think not for sure she was president? Thank her for RECAPTURE thumbs down. Once we get this Casino Bill passed the RECAPTURE goes away finally.
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g3tPWNed_24
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« Reply #56 on: December 13, 2012, 01:22:06 PM »

i have one back there currently and thankfully she's been ok and luckily there havent been any positives in my trainers barn for the disease. It's not what i want done for me, its what shoulda been done from the outset for everyone, most of all the horses! as far as your other question theres a 50+ page thread thats been locked, im sure youve been following along


Which barn are your horses in?
What did you want done that didn"t get done?
















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